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Has the Schiavo case Become a Political Football?

 
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 08:52 am
Fox wrote:
Quote:
It is not that Congress cleared the way for the appeal but that they took a judicial 'side' in doing so. Congress after all created the federal court system and must be able to pass and repeal laws to which thoset courts are bound.

Activist judges are one problem and a particular concern of mine. But there is a larger and more pervasive trend for the judiciary to be afforded more than the co-equal powers assigned to it by the Constitution. When judges are held up as gods not to be challenged or questioned, I think we are in danger of losing the core principles of our Republic form of government.


Congress did not create the federal court system, the constitution created it. Congress only worked out the details of district and circuit courts. The court's first responsibility is the constitution, then laws. Laws can not trump the constitution. Congress does not have the power to trump the courts by passing laws requiring the courts to rule a certain way. That is the violation of "co-equal powers." If you don't like what the courts are doing then change the constititution.

I get so tired of the phrase "activist judges". It shows a complete lack of understanding of how the US government works. It gets thrown out as the reason any time the court rules different than what someone wants or desires. It is a complete red herring. A judge that rules the way the law and constitution is written is hardly "activist". He is doing what the law requires him to do. I would suggest you go read the Federalist papers Fox. I believe it is Hamilton that points out that courts will be doing its best work when people disagree with its decision.

As for judges "not being questioned".. Oh please.. what the hell is this entire case about? The judges have been questioned and questioned and questioned and questioned and questioned and etc, etc, etc.....
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 08:59 am
Well, Terri has died this AM. Hopefully the issue can now be put to rest with her remains.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 09:03 am
Parados writes
Quote:
I would suggest you go read the Federalist papers Fox. I believe it is Hamilton that points out that courts will be doing its best work when people disagree with its decision


I thnk I have a pretty good background in the federalist papers and it is on those very papers that has been a heavy influence on the opinions I hold re the courts, their powrs, their responsibilities, as well as that of Congress and the Executive branch. So what do you base your opinions on?

And could you please cite the article or amendment of the Constitution that creates the federal court system other than the Supreme Court?
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Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 09:10 am
McGentrix- May she rest in peace. I am sure that had she known, she would have been horrified over the circus that her parents have caused!
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parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 09:10 am
Thomas wrote:
Quote:
That's not the case I have read about. In the case I have read about, it was a "he said, she said" tie between her husband's version and the parents' version. The husband's version prevailed because under Florida law, he was the next of kin, and it's the next of kin who decides.



Hardly a case of "he said, she said". I think Nimh has posted extensively from the court rulings. You are free to disagree with the courts decision but don't turn it into something it wasn't. The court looked at a lot of evidence in this case. I suggest you go look at it rather than the media's flagrant disregard for that evidence. The media has an invested interest in selling itself when it comes to this case.

Several people testified as to Terri's wishes on both sides. The court looked at that testimony and made a decision based on what it felt was true and what wasn't. The court included its reasoning in its decision. The husband prevailed when it came to Terri's wishes not because he was next of kin but because the preponderance of evidence was on his side. When it came to Terri's medical condition, the husband prevailed because all credible medical evidence pointed to Terri being in PVS. Again, the court wrote extensively about why it ruled the way it did.

The ethical question of pulling a feeding tube is one thing. The legal question of evidence is something quite different. The case was decided based on the evidence. The case was appealed based on the evidence. Debra goes on and on about "lack of evidence" but she fails to provide anything to support her theory that there wasn't enough evidence.
The court used the "clear and convincing" standard that Debra demanded they had to but then she raises the bar above that because she is emotional about the case. Judge Greer wrote that the evidence was "clear and convincing". The appeals court has said there is not any evidence that the "clear and convincing" standard wasn't met.
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parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 09:18 am
Fox
Quote:

Art 3
Section 1.


The judicial Power of the United States, shall be vested in one supreme Court, and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish. The Judges, both of the supreme and inferior Courts, shall hold their Offices during good Behaviour, and shall, at stated Times, receive for their Services, a Compensation, which shall not be diminished during their Continuance in Office.


Constitution creates the court system including lower (inferior) courts. Congress gets to create the exact lower courts later which it did in creating district and circuit courts. It continues to change the lower courts as needed to deal with work load etc.

Quote:

Section 2.


The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority
In Section 2 the power of the courts is defined. The SAME power goes to all inferior courts as well as to the Supreme court. Note the use of "The Judicial Power" in the first and send clauses. "Judicial Power" includes all inferior courts later set up by Congress.
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ConstitutionalGirl
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 09:19 am
Phoenix32890 wrote:
McGentrix- May she rest in peace. I am sure that had she known, she would have been horrified over the circus that her parents have caused!
Yea, Right!
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parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 09:26 am
Fox,
I will be gone for a week but if you want to have a discussion on the Federalist papers I am more than willing to. The interesting thing I find about people on the right like Rush Limbaugh is that they often quote the arguments raised against the Constitution in the Fed papers as if it was the argument that supports it.

The Federalist papers use a standard debate technique. You set up the argument against something then show where it fails. It becomes easy to destroy the argument against the constitution using the exact argument from the Federalist papers.
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parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 09:27 am
May Terri rest in peace.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 09:29 am
Parados writes
Quote:
Quote:
The judicial Power of the United States, shall be vested in one supreme Court, and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish.

The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority


Thank you. And as you see, Congress establishes the 'inferior Coursts' and such courts and Article I also states that it shall be Congress charged

Quote:
Clause 18: To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.


It is the prerogative of Congress, not the Executive branch and not the judicial branch of government, to make laws and it is the responsibility of the Executive branch and the judicial branch to stay within the parameters of the laws passed by Congress. Activist judges go beyond and expand the letter and intent of the law and this is a practice I think everybody should continue to speak out against and condemn. In no place in the Constitution is the judicial branch given authority to make new law.
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Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 09:33 am
Phoenix32890 wrote:
McGentrix- May she rest in peace. I am sure that had she known, she would have been horrified over the circus that her parents have caused!

And you base this on??? Perhaps on the idea that everyone must secretly agree with you. Yes, I am sure that she would have been horrified at the people who tried to stop her from being starved and dehydrated to death.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 09:34 am
And Parados, a discussion on the Federalist papers would be great, but because of the enormous volume and scope of these, it would be best to discuss one issue at a time. For instance, the intent for judicial powers might be a good place to start. Anyway have a good trip and hope its for fun purposes.
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littlek
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 09:35 am
Says she died peacefully.....
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 09:37 am
BREAKING NEWS
Terri Schiavo, the severely brain-damaged woman whose 15 years connected to a feeding tube sparked an epic legal battle that went all the way to the White House and Congress, died Thursday, 13 days after the tube was removed. She was 41.
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Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 09:37 am
littlek wrote:
Says she died peacefully.....

Well that proves it, I guess.
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littlek
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 09:38 am
proves what?
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Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 09:39 am
littlek wrote:
proves what?

That she died peacefully. A newspaper said it, after all. I wonder what her natural family's take on that was. But, of course, they don't count.
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Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 09:40 am
Thomas wrote:
Lola wrote:
Terri was an adult when this tragedy struck. She was a married woman with her own life. She had a husband and had separated from her family. Numerous judges have found her husbands account of his wife's wishes on this matter credible and her parents not.

That's not the case I have read about. In the case I have read about, it was a "he said, she said" tie between her husband's version and the parents' version. The husband's version prevailed because under Florida law, he was the next of kin, and it's the next of kin who decides.

Lola wrote:
They have no rights in this matter.

Legally, perhaps. Morally, they certainly do. Morally, I don't see why the parents would be any less close to her than a husband who has moved on.


We have a misunderstanding here based on terminology. I forget sometimes the common use of a word that is also used in psychological theory. Separation is a stage of life. A child eventually separates from their parents and moves on with their adult life. This life involves them making their own decisions. And the law recognizes this fact when it defines next of kin as the spouse. It's not a tie in this case because Terri was all grown up and on her own at the time of the tragedy.

We don't own our children. We give them life, train them the best we can to live it well and then we have no more say about how they live their own lives. Terri married Michael. They had their private conversations about Terri's wishes that did not include her parents. Terri's parents are the very picture of parents who do not know how or don't recognize the need to let go.
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Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 09:43 am
Terri Schiavo has died. Her death has been confirmed by attorney for her
husband Michael Schiavo. Well, her husband's lawyer confirms it. Even now the lawyers are involved instead of the doctors.
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Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 09:51 am
If only she could rest in peace.
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