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Has the Schiavo case Become a Political Football?

 
 
wenchilina
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 06:28 pm
posters continue to attribute blindly reacting to the light, sound, vibrations, and activity around her as human characteristics in our view when they simply are not. she's an idling car - the blinkers work, the transmission works, the lights work, but the driver is dead and the doors are locked

15 years and a soup of degraded tissue and spinal fluid as her cerebral cortex.

fox pointed out a radio show with callers claiming they've suffered the same or similar fate - the callers clearly are not aware of the severity of her condition.

why does this keep being disregarded? can someone explain to me how one can process thought/emotion/memory when the regulator is gone?
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 06:31 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
The $5000 figure cited is more than reasonable for somebody who receiving minimal or no medical treatment and is only being kept clean and fed.

OK, I dont know. I would have thought someone in such a serious state would have required (expensive) expert supervision/monitoring, but on the other hand I guess it could be exactly the other way round: someone in a vegetative state doesn't require much. I havent got a clue really.

I only know that the $5,000 figure was footnoted in the pro-life webpage you linked to a local newspaper article (Palm Beach something), while the $500,000 number was cited by BusinessWeek as what unspecified "estimates have placed" it at. Gotta keep looking, I s'pose.

<returns>
Here's Slate noting:
Quote:
Who's paying for her care?

Schiavo resides at a nonprofit hospice that has assumed part of the cost of her care. Medicaid pays for the rest. According to this AP story, keeping her alive costs about $80,000 per year, and at least $350,000 of the malpractice settlement awarded to Schiavo and her husband in 1992 has been spent on her care. Florida Medicaid normally offers hospice coverage for those with a life expectancy of no more than six months, but Schiavo has received assistance from the state for the last two years.


And this, interestingly, is NewsMax:

Quote:
Schiavo Money is Just About Exhausted
NewsMax.com Wires

Friday, March 18, 2005
PINELLAS PARK -- As the battle over Terri Schiavo's life rages, the 41-year-old brain-damaged woman lies in a hospice bed, dependent on the institution's charity and Florida taxpayers for her care.

The $1-million received by her and her husband, Michael, in a medical malpractice case in 1993 is nearly gone, attorneys say, spent on her care and the husband's legal quest over the past seven years to stop her artificial feedings so she can die.

Her parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, want to keep her alive and accuse her husband of wanting Terri dead so he could inherit what was left from the malpractice award. Michael Schiavo has said the rift between him and his in-laws began because he refused to share with them part of the money he received from that award.
But the reality is that hardly anybody is getting paid anymore.

Michael Schiavo's attorneys say they have not been paid in more than two years. Schindler attorney David Gibbs III said he is working for free, although an anti-abortion group, Life Legal Defense Foundation, has paid some of his expenses.

Just $40,000 to $50,000 remains of the money won in the malpractice case after Terri's heart stopped in 1990 and left her in what court-appointed doctors say is a persistent vegetative state.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 06:31 pm
It's like on one of the religious topics when somebody claimed that there were 247 people in addition to Noah who witnessed the flood. Can't win on logic nor errors when talking to some people.
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 06:32 pm
You got that right, CI. Emotion is never going to concede anything.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 06:36 pm
I guess the NewsMax article should put speculation here to rest about how Michael is only in it for the money in the trust fund.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 06:39 pm
Question: Is anyone aware of a doctor testifying that there was no chance Terri Shiavo would recover other than a court appointed doctor?

Is anyone aware of Terri being allowed her own attorney representing her interests separately from those of her husband?
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 06:48 pm
"...attorney representing her interests...' ROTFLMAO
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 06:48 pm
Nimh posted
Quote:
at least $350,000 of the malpractice settlement awarded to Schiavo and her husband in 1992 has been spent on her care. Florida


Okay she has been disabled since 1990. Let's assume hospitalization covered expenses when she was receiving treatment up to the settlement in 1992. So from 1992 to 2005 is 13 years. $350,000 divided by 13 = $26,923/year divided by 12 months = $2244/month.

If we use the $80,000/year total it comes out to $6667/month but no source suggests Shiavo is paying anything lose to that. It's a very good bet that the high powered attorneys he has been using to get permission to kill her haven't come cheap, however.
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parados
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 06:55 pm
Quote:
Question: Is anyone aware of a doctor testifying that there was no chance Terri Shiavo would recover other than a court appointed doctor?


At least 3 doctors have testified to that fact in court. 2 of her doctors and one court doctor. No one that has actually treated her as a doctor has claimed she would recover.
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 06:59 pm
fox said:
Quote:
It's a very good bet that the high powered attorneys he has been using to get permission to kill her haven't come cheap, however.

that constitutes a grave and serious charge of felony/criminal actions against the attorneys/judges and Mr Schiavo, are you prepared to back this charge up with fact or qualify it as your prejudical opinion?
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 06:59 pm
Do you have a link to a source Parados? All I can find say 'court appointed doctors'.
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parados
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 07:04 pm
A very good timeline on Schiavo.
http://www.miami.edu/ethics2/schiavo/timeline.htm

It lists the number of court appointed ad litums and Drs that have testified over the years and briefly discusses each case. It also talks about the treatment early on for Schiavo including a stint when Michael and her parents lived together and attempted to care for her at home.
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wenchilina
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 07:08 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
Question: Is anyone aware of a doctor testifying that there was no chance Terri Shiavo would recover other than a court appointed doctor?


http://www.2dca.org/opinion/October%2017,%202001/2d01-3626.pdf
court appt'd doc and doctors from both sides ( oct 2002 trial )

page with more info here : http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infopage.html

now can someone please tell me how a human can possibly ' think ' or ' show emotion ' without their cerebral cortex!?
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parados
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 07:12 pm
At least 4 seperate Guardians or Drs appointed by the various courts have all reached the SAME CONCLUSION. Terri Schaivo is in a persistent vegetative state with no chance of improvement.

There is no evidence to support any other conclusion in spite of all the "wishful thinking" done by her parents or anyone here.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 07:12 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
If we use the $80,000/year total it comes out to $6667/month but no source suggests Shiavo is paying anything lose to that.

Actually, a great many sources seem to be suggesting $80,000/year as the estimated costs.
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parados
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 07:15 pm
Fox,
I believe it is in 2003 that Schiavo and her parents each selected 2 Drs and the court appointed one. So 5 Drs testified. 3 that she could not recover and 2 carefully selected saying that she could. One of the 2 that said she could has since come under investigation for fraud in claiming he could cure PVS in another case.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 07:17 pm
Found a link dump on another site, might include good info:

Quote:
URLs for court filings.

They're in order, I think. If you read them all you can see the case develop. I have 2 short excerpts about physical findings which are elided for brevity, but not changed in meaning.

2001
District Court of Appeals, January
http://www.jud10.org/2ndDCA/jan01/2D00-1269.htm

...Theresa's brain has deteriorated...[in]1996, CAT...showed severely abnormal structure...much of her cerebral cortex...has been replaced by cerebral spinal fluid...

Same Court, July
http://www.jud10.org/2ndDCA/july01/2D00-1269.htm

...Schindlers have not seriously contested...Mrs. Schiavo's brain has suffered major, permanent damage...board-certified neurologist...reviewed a CAT...and an EEG testified that most, if not all, of...[the]cerebral cortex...is either totally destroyed or damaged beyond repair. ...it is conceivable that extraordinary treatment might improve...motor functions of brain stem or cerebellum...no medical evidence suggest[s]...any new treatment could restore...the cerebral cortex...

Same Court, October
http://www.2dca.org/opinion/October%2017,%202001/2d01-3626.pdf

2002
Deposition Peter Bambakidis, M.D
http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:Jnm8LcTlxRMJ:www.zimp.org/bam.doc++Bambakidis+schiavo+&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&client=googlet

(this is very incomplete, only stuff favorable to parents' position; could not find the rest online)

Brief: parents
http://www.flcourts.org/pubinfo/summaries/briefs/01/01-2678/Filed_03-01-2002_JurisAnswerBrief.pdf

2003
District Court of Appeals, June:
www.2dca.org/opinion/June%2006,%202003/2D02-5394.pdf

Fla. Attorney General, amicus curiae, on Fla. statute:
www.myfloridalegal.com/schiavo.pdf

Amicus curiae Jeb Bush
http://www.flcourts.org/pubinfo/summaries/briefs/01/01-2678/Filed_03-01-2002_JurisAnswerBrief.pdf

Brief: Husband:
www.flcourts.org/pubinfo/summaries/briefs/03/ 03-1242/Filed_08-20-2003_ResponseStay.pdf

That's enough court filings.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 07:18 pm
parados, Foxy is not going to admit she is wrong on this issue come hell or high water (another flood of the biblical kind). No amount of facts brought forth will have any impact, because they are "pro-lifers" that has only one agenda.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 07:18 pm
NImh, from my own research I think $80,000 a year unlikely for purely maintenance care, but even if that figure is accurate, your own source said the bulk of the expense was being picked up by other sources.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 07:20 pm
So the verdict was 3 doctors for 'no hope' and 2 doctors said she could likely be treated? How many of us would wish to have the plug pulled on that kind of evidence?

http://libertytothecaptives.net/hammesfahr_dr._report.html
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