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Has the Schiavo case Become a Political Football?

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2005 08:53 pm
A nurse can always renew their license by paying the state fee. There may be some CEU requirements.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2005 09:09 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
A nurse can always renew their license by paying the state fee. There may be some CEU requirements.

Iknow CI,
I posted the informaation from a rightist rag intentionally .... it is available from a lot of places As Ebeth demonstrated. Did you read some of the crap they put in there. Just wanted to show an open mind. I even watch Fox ....... their non political stuf isn't bad. Shocked
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2005 09:51 pm
Gelisgesti wrote:
Please go by what I said and stop re-writing my words to fit your needs. When did I claim to be an expert. Your answers were all in the form of links to web sites like terri'sfight, the family web site ... you never answered a single question that I posed, not one.
You quoted opinion after opinion with no reference. There was one opinion that out weighed even your learned .... or unlearned opinion...Michael, who knows more about Terri's condition than you, the family, plus all the lawyers bought by the far right. Or did you know that not only is he an R.R.T. .... Registered Respiratory Therapist, with two more years of school than I had ..... plus ..... he is a Registered Nurse ...... don't bother answering, I think I know your medical expierence from what you write and besides, I hate to see my words twisted out of recognition.




Unless you're insinuating that no one on this thread is qualified to discuss the conflicting medical evidence in this matter unless one qualifies as a respiratory therapist, your medical credentials don't mean anything to this discussion.

Are you saying you won't read the conflicting medical evidence in the court documents simply because the majority of the documents are posted on the terrisfight website? What difference does it make if the documents are posted on terrisfight, cnn, cbsnews, fox, or some other site? The actual court documents have been scanned and posted on several websites. I can't make you read them.
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2005 10:38 pm
Gelisgesti wrote:
Quote:
March 25, 2005
Cast of Characters in the Schiavo Case

The following is a compilation of the cast of characters related to the Schiavo case.

(Note: This is a work in progress. Items will be added as more information is gathered. To assist with the case of Terri Schiavo and to help the Schindlers with their continuing efforts, information provided here may be freely used with the condition that Myopic Zeal is credited with the compilation. This is a compilation taken from public records, news accounts, and information provided from a variety of other sources. If you have additional, credible information regarding a cast of characters please communicate with us.)

Disclaimer: This compilation is not intended to imply anything. It is an effort to compile a cast of characters as might be related to the Terri Schiavo case and their relationships as well as events possibly related to the cast. While deemed to be reliable to the best of our knowledge, as with any legal proceeding all information below should be double checked and verified.

* Michael Schiavo, husband of Terri Schiavo and a Florida registered
respiratory therapist and registered nurse (RN license RN9164785) He was issued his nursing license January 18th, 2000 and its expiration is April 30, 2005 (link via Daily Inklings).


klikme for source.

Lola,
clusty.com ... search for whatever in plain old english.
Don't you think if anyone had an idea of Terri's prognosis he would? The **** he has been put through.


I agree, absolutely. Now this information which I had not heard confirms it even more for me.

We should be talking about the source of the memo. That's an important aspect of this story. Chosing life is a good thing, when there is life to choose. I respect Michael Schiavo for his perserverance in doing what he thought was right for his wife.

Now let's talk about how and for what purpose it became such a disgraceful circus.
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2005 11:20 pm
http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1269856#1269856

Lola's tired of politics. Let's have some fun instead.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2005 05:42 am
Debra_Law wrote:
Gelisgesti wrote:
Please go by what I said and stop re-writing my words to fit your needs. When did I claim to be an expert. Your answers were all in the form of links to web sites like terri'sfight, the family web site ... you never answered a single question that I posed, not one.
You quoted opinion after opinion with no reference. There was one opinion that out weighed even your learned .... or unlearned opinion...Michael, who knows more about Terri's condition than you, the family, plus all the lawyers bought by the far right. Or did you know that not only is he an R.R.T. .... Registered Respiratory Therapist, with two more years of school than I had ..... plus ..... he is a Registered Nurse ...... don't bother answering, I think I know your medical expierence from what you write and besides, I hate to see my words twisted out of recognition.




Quote:
Unless you're insinuating that no one on this thread is qualified to discuss the conflicting medical evidence in this matter unless one qualifies as a respiratory therapist, your medical credentials don't mean anything to this discussion.


What a stupid statement. Show me here I have even come close to making that assertion. That is you're feeble attempt to paint me in that light and separate me from the rest of the people on this thread ... or are you saying that only an attorney can know the medical nuances of Terri's case? I'm basing my medical opinion on my medical experience. upon what are you basing your''s?

Quote:
Are you saying you won't read the conflicting medical evidence in the court documents simply because the majority of the documents are posted on the terrisfight website? What difference does it make if the documents are posted on terrisfight, cnn, cbsnews, fox, or some other site? The actual court documents have been scanned and posted on several websites. I can't make you read them.


If Iwant to know the results of a medical exam am I going to look up court decisions? For God's sake use your head! Would you call roto rooter for constipation?
Just because you say it don't make it so. Stop building straw men and join the discussion. Yesterday the topic was legalities, Being ignorant of the law I sat out.... and learned a little.
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2005 06:08 am
Senate collegues are pressing for a rules inquiry, since the source of the infamous Schiavo memo surfaced. Apparently Mel Martinez, the newly elected senator from Florida, has used a certain ploy before..............................create a stir, distance himself from it, and then put the blame on an employee.

Quote:
Martinez acknowledged Wednesday that one of his aides wrote a memo calling the Schiavo case a ``great political issue'' that could help unseat Democrats, particularly Florida's other senator, Bill Nelson, who is up for re-election next year.

The memo gave fuel to critics who questioned the sincerity of GOP advocates in sustaining Schiavo's life. Martinez immediately distanced himself from the memo and blamed the employee.

But Democratic critics, and even some Republicans, noted that Martinez has done this before.

Twice during his 2004 Senate campaign, he blamed staff members and distanced himself from campaign materials that angered even fellow Republicans: a news release calling federal law officers involved in the Elian Gonzalez case ``armed thugs'' and a harsh advertising campaign accusing his Republican primary opponent Bill McCollum of pandering to ``the radical homosexual lobby.''

``Mel Martinez seems to like delegating to the people working for him, and then distances himself from their dirty tricks,'' said University of Virginia political scientist Larry Sabato. ``As a senator ... you are still responsible. You have to set a tone and have a set of rules for your office, so your aides know what they should do and what they should not do.''



http://www.tampatrib.com/News/MGBMZ1VW97E.html
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2005 06:17 am
I have one question,and nobody seems to talk about it.

IF Micheal Schiavo was following his wifes wishes about being allowed to die,why did he wait so long to do it.
By his own admission he flew to Ca for treatment,he tried everything he could.
WHY?
It seems to me that by doing all that,he was ignoring her wishes.
That seems to me to be strange,and not once has it been explained.
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2005 06:27 am
mysteryman- I think that the answer is very obvious. When a terrible tragedy like what happed to Terri happens, often the families are in denial. Many go to great lengths in order to help the injured person get well, even though it may be medically impossible. In other words, I think that Michael, in the beginning, actually believed that Terri could get well, even though it was an unrealistic hope on his part.

After awhile, when time passes, and little or nothing is accomplished, the families finally accept the reality of the situation. It is a soul searing process for the families to give up hope and accept the reality. It takes some people longer than others. The Schindlers have NEVER accepted the fact, that Terri, after 15 years, for goodness sake, was in a PVS, and would never improve.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2005 06:29 am
mysteryman wrote:
I have one question,and nobody seems to talk about it.

IF Micheal Schiavo was following his wifes wishes about being allowed to die,why did he wait so long to do it.
By his own admission he flew to Ca for treatment,he tried everything he could.
WHY?
It seems to me that by doing all that,he was ignoring her wishes.
That seems to me to be strange,and not once has it been explained.


If you truly love someone you are not in a hurrry to say goodbye. This speaks for Michael, not against him.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2005 06:31 am
Boy you type fast Smile
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Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2005 06:32 am
Laughing Do you know how many times I had to edit out the typos???? Laughing
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2005 06:35 am
Phoenix32890 wrote:
Senate collegues are pressing for a rules inquiry, since the source of the infamous Schiavo memo surfaced. Apparently Mel Martinez, the newly elected senator from Florida, has used a certain ploy before..............................create a stir, distance himself from it, and then put the blame on an employee.

Quote:
Martinez acknowledged Wednesday that one of his aides wrote a memo calling the Schiavo case a ``great political issue'' that could help unseat Democrats, particularly Florida's other senator, Bill Nelson, who is up for re-election next year.

The memo gave fuel to critics who questioned the sincerity of GOP advocates in sustaining Schiavo's life. Martinez immediately distanced himself from the memo and blamed the employee.

But Democratic critics, and even some Republicans, noted that Martinez has done this before.

Twice during his 2004 Senate campaign, he blamed staff members and distanced himself from campaign materials that angered even fellow Republicans: a news release calling federal law officers involved in the Elian Gonzalez case ``armed thugs'' and a harsh advertising campaign accusing his Republican primary opponent Bill McCollum of pandering to ``the radical homosexual lobby.''

``Mel Martinez seems to like delegating to the people working for him, and then distances himself from their dirty tricks,'' said University of Virginia political scientist Larry Sabato. ``As a senator ... you are still responsible. You have to set a tone and have a set of rules for your office, so your aides know what they should do and what they should not do.''



http://www.tampatrib.com/News/MGBMZ1VW97E.html

It wasn't just an aid, it was one of the op attorneys on his legal staff.
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2005 06:44 am
Quote:
It wasn't just an aid, it was one of the op attorneys on his legal staff.


Gelisgesti - Absolutely correct.

And now the "plot" thickens:


Quote:
The Campaign for America's Future issued a press release Thursday noting that Darling, the memo-writer, once worked for the Alexander Strategy Group, a Washington-based corporate lobbying firm that is "heavily connected to Rep. DeLay."


Darling's clients included Universal Bearing, Inc., a company owned by the Hanwha Group, which -- according to the Campaign for America's Future -- "has direct ties to the foreign agent that paid for Rep. DeLay's improper trip to Korea."


There's more: The Alexander Strategy Group was formed by Rep. DeLay's former Chief of Staff Ed Buckham, who also introduced Rep. DeLay to corporate lobbyist Jack Abramoff, the Campaign for America's Future said.


Former DeLay aide Jim Ellis, who was indicted for money laundering, was a consultant to the Alexander Strategy Group.


Former DeLay staffer Tony Rudy, former DeLay PAC director Karl Gallant, and Rep. DeLay's spouse, Christine DeLay, all worked for Alexander Strategy Group.


http://www.townhall.com/news/politics/200504/POL20050408a.shtml

I think that this is going to get very nasty. I expect that I am going to sit back and enjoy the "show".
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2005 06:50 am
Gelisgesti wrote:
mysteryman wrote:
I have one question,and nobody seems to talk about it.

IF Micheal Schiavo was following his wifes wishes about being allowed to die,why did he wait so long to do it.
By his own admission he flew to Ca for treatment,he tried everything he could.
WHY?
It seems to me that by doing all that,he was ignoring her wishes.
That seems to me to be strange,and not once has it been explained.


If you truly love someone you are not in a hurrry to say goodbye. This speaks for Michael, not against him.


If you truly love someone,you also respect their wishes,especially in a case like this.

It just seems strange to me that he ignored her wishes when it suited him,then all of a sudden he decided that she had to die now.

There is another case going in Florida that fits the Schiavo case...

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43688 Granddaughter yanks grandma's feeding tube
81-year-old neither terminally ill, comatose, nor in vegetative state
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2005 06:54 am
Mysteryman- You are painting with a very broad brush, indeed. The case that you are citing has little in common with the Schiavo case. In this case I think that the granddaughter is way overstepping her bounds and needs to be reined in, legally.

The fact that you can equate this case with the Schiavo case, would indicate to me that you have very little understanding of the various concepts surrounding the two cases.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2005 07:30 am
Of interest to all ....


Living wills.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2005 08:38 am
Gelisgesti wrote:
Tico,
I argued only medical points and issues. I don't understand your point in asking for law degrees ..... that would be Debs place don't you think? I would be out of place to argue the legal aspects as I am ignorant of the law.
What's your point?


You asked Debra why a judge would interfere with normal intake of food and drink. You're suggesting that is a medical point or issue and not a legal issue?

After she answered your question, your reply was to dismiss her response as "ridiculous" and "tripe" and to essentially proclaim that your medical certification as a repiratory therapy technician makes you the by-all and end-all on the subject -- at a minimum that your opinion is entitled to greater deference than Debra's. You have now asked her on what experience is she basing her medical opinion. You can disclaim all you want that you did not intend to imply you were an expert on the subject, but that certainly appears to be the intent of you asking those questions.

In light of your questions -- and Lola's obvious pressing desire to see them answered -- I think it to be a very valid question to ask upon what experience are those in this thread basing their legal opinions, and what are their legal credentials? With all the lay people offering their legal opinions on this subject, have you seen Debra or I flaunt our law degrees, legal education and experience, or demand to know the legal training of those offering their opinions, with the obvious intent to denigrate them in the process? The answer is "no." Debra in particular has done a yeoman's job of trying to educate on the law in this area.

I'll make you a deal though: I'll accept what you have so say about the medical issues as gospel, if you do the same about what I have to say about the legal issues. Agreed?
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2005 09:05 am
My medical credentials: several years working in hospitals in various capacities including radiology assistant and information officer for a large hospital plus reading reams of medical reports when working in insurance.

My legal credentials: A few college classes, a stint working in a law firm, dealing with rules and regs in business my whole life, and, when working in insurance dealing with judges and attorneys on a regular basis.

I am expert in no medical field, but I have have enough experience to know that people in the medical field are fallible and they do screw up and they don't all agree on diagnosis or courses of treatment and there are some who are entirely unethical.

I am no legal expert but I have enough experience to know that attorneys and judges are fallible and they do screw up and they don't all agree on fine points of the law or the correct solutions and some are entirely unethical.

Do I give Tico and Debra all the credit for intelligent and competent analysis of this particular issue and defer to their legal expertise on fine points of the law? I certainly do.

Do I give the medical people credit for knowing more about fine points of medical diagnosis and treatment than I do? Of course I do.

Do I think either fine points of the law or medical diagnosis are necessary to say what was done to Terri Schiavo was unnecessary and brutally cruel to those who loved her and very possibly to her? No I don't.

But my only claim to expertise here is that I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express once.
0 Replies
 
Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2005 09:47 am
mysteryman wrote:
I have one question,and nobody seems to talk about it.

IF Micheal Schiavo was following his wifes wishes about being allowed to die,why did he wait so long to do it.
By his own admission he flew to Ca for treatment,he tried everything he could.
WHY?
It seems to me that by doing all that,he was ignoring her wishes.
That seems to me to be strange,and not once has it been explained.


The animosity between the two families, which extended into the courts for many years, kept Michael from fulfilling Terri's wishes. When the feeding tube was removed several times before, it would be placed back in because of another court order.

mystery, aren't you even aware of what you're saying? Or is this just more continuous reaching by a dwindling neocon stance on Terri? Afterall, it's been ALL Pope ALL the time now. Terri is so yesterday's news.

Perhaps you should move on as well...
0 Replies
 
 

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