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Existence is necessarily omnipotent and omniscient

 
 
brianjakub
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Nov, 2018 06:54 am
@livinglava,
Quote:
They do, but their is no fundamental distinction between conscious/intentional creation and natural evolution.


Are you saying here that I am not anymore responsible for my actions than an animal?
livinglava
 
  0  
Reply Wed 7 Nov, 2018 04:21 pm
@brianjakub,
brianjakub wrote:

Quote:
They do, but their is no fundamental distinction between conscious/intentional creation and natural evolution.


Are you saying here that I am not anymore responsible for my actions than an animal?

That's an incorrect extrapolation/interpolation of what I am saying.

What I'm saying is that the brain is made up of ions and electrons, which operate as a complex organic computer/machine. Attributing consciousness and intention is only possible because we experience it directly. From the perspective of an electron living in a neuron (assuming electrons have perspectives), the brain is as or more complex a system as the universe as a whole is to us. We shouldn't assume what we understand about galaxies, nebulae, etc. at our level and time scales are all that is going on. It makes more sense to assume that any system with complexity as elaborate as our brain is experiencing some form of consciousness and/or intention.
brianjakub
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Nov, 2018 08:34 pm
@livinglava,
Why assume when you can know? We know that man has the anility to input complex information into the computer/machine and that new creative i formatio is revealed by the machine not created by the machine. Computers don't create. Only humans do because they are created in the image of God.
livinglava
 
  0  
Reply Thu 8 Nov, 2018 06:31 am
@brianjakub,
brianjakub wrote:

Why assume when you can know? We know that man has the anility to input complex information into the computer/machine and that new creative i formatio is revealed by the machine not created by the machine. Computers don't create. Only humans do because they are created in the image of God.

There was a study on rat brains not too long ago that showed the difference between them and human brains has to do with a certain type of neuron that is able to resist temptation. Rats only pursue whatever they desire, but humans have (more) ability to interfere with their impulses, and logically our cerebral cognitive abilities have grown a lot to take advantage of this.

But even a rat has consciousness and some level of intention. You can extrapolate that by looking at a dog, for example, who can point at a leash when he wants to go out for a walk. So humans are not the only animals with consciousness and intention. That should lead you to extrapolate that consciousness and intention are phenomena that are rooted in something more general about the brain or even something about the fundamental structure/function of the brain due to its composition, i.e. ionized sodium and potassium solutions changing concentrations and variously flowing or being blocked from crossing channels.

Anyway, the bottom line is that when people look at supposedly inanimate systems and assume they are fundamentally different than a human brain or other animal brain, they forget that everything is fundamentally made of the same kind of stuff from the same periodic table. So subatomic behaviors such as ionization within a solution of electrolytes occur in all sorts of situations and phenomena, not just living brains.
brianjakub
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Nov, 2018 11:58 am
@livinglava,
Matter doesn't create. Intelligent minds create and reveal their creations by manipulating matter. Intelligence is not made of matter.
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Nov, 2018 12:29 pm
@brianjakub,
Brian,
Why did your Creator takes millions of years of evolution to establish His unique protegy ' Man' ? Looks like a lot of trial and error to me, with multiple botched attempts on the way. Surely you are not going to cherry pick what you think 'His information' is !
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Nov, 2018 01:38 pm
@fresco,
It's not only Homo sapiens, it's most life forms. Years ago Event
3.5 billion Unicellular life evolves. Photosynthetic bacteria begin to release oxygen into the atmosphere.
3.8 billion Replicating molecules (the precursors of DNA) form.
4.6 billion The Earth forms and is bombarded by meteorites and comets.
13 more rows
Important events in the history of life - Understanding Evolution
https://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/evotext_13
0 Replies
 
livinglava
 
  0  
Reply Thu 8 Nov, 2018 04:21 pm
@brianjakub,
brianjakub wrote:

Matter doesn't create. Intelligent minds create and reveal their creations by manipulating matter. Intelligence is not made of matter.

That's a poetic but ultimately meaningless statement. Everything is made of the same stuff, which is energized-matter (which is ultimately materialized energy). You're scrambling different levels of analysis uncritically.
0 Replies
 
brianjakub
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Nov, 2018 08:38 pm
@fresco,
Everything happens in the process.
0 Replies
 
 

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