Where is the US economy headed?

There are arguments to that effect. I'm not quite sure why a Darwinist wouldn't make them. Except to save his own reputation. Surely he or she has to think it. The only scientific differences between WW1 and previous wars was the kit and the numbers. And if principles are erected on those sorts of things it's necessary to say what the number is where the war was not good or justified. A thorny issue.

Which justifies izzy being horrified.

I've been in a lot of pubs where an American braying that "our drones freed the people of Libya" line of discourse would have found themselves dusting off in the car park.

Was it one of those pubs were there are strange sights to be seen?

The secret of annoying Englishmen in their own pub like I did with my comments concerning Germany and not then ending up floating in the Thames river seems to be to had a lot of fellow Americans with you.

People drinking room temperature beer seems kind of strange at the time.

As opposed to swinging around inside a tyre.

I think you have hit the nail right on the head.

There is no reason for Brits to resent the timing of the US entry into the war.

The resentment stems from the disparate conditions in which each nation found themselves at the victorious conclusion of the war.

Particularly, perhaps, because European nations had, up until then, a long history of enjoying the spoils of a successful war, and Britain hadn't had to suffer homeland losses from external foes since the Normans invaded.

Comments by spendius relative to some enjoying speakeasies while other had to duck bombs from above suggest a perhaps understandable, but nevertheless unjustified bitterness. They also suggest an error in historical sequence: Prohibition in the US ended in 1933 while the Battle of Britain didn't begin until 1940.

For a nation that had enjoyed the riches and prestige of an imperialism that lasted hundreds of years, the blow to the British psyche, let alone economy, must have been considerable, and the effects certainly haven't been disappearing as the last of the WWII generation pass on.

Although it's an empire of an entirely different sort, I hope when it's time for the American Empire to end, I will have lived a long and happy life and passed on. (Unfortunately that may not be possible if Obama is re-elected in 2012)

In your shoes, I'm sure I would be irked by Americans claiming we saved your collective ass in two world wars. First of all it's obnoxious and secondly it's not true. I wonder, though, if you appreciate that churlish expressions of your national bitterness over a lost standing in the world, when directed at the US, tend to incite such obnoxious claims.

After all, while the number of American casualties was slightly less than the total of the UK and crown colonies they still numbered almost 300,000. That's not an insignificant number, despite the fact that other nations involved in the war (most noticeably the USSR) suffered far larger numbers.

And whether or not we immediately came to your side militarily, $31 billion in supplies were shipped to Britain through the Lend-Lease program. That's close to half a trillion dollars in today’s dollars.

So while we shouldn't take sole credit for winning World War II, it's obvious that our contribution was considerable and critical, and certainly not to be minimized by revisionists.

Why wouldn't we want and celebrate a Special Relationship between our two countries?

It seems apparent that the UK is moving (politically and culturally) closer to Europe, and our current Administration has hardly tried to reinforce the ties that bind our two nations. It's a trend I'm not pleased to see.

I forgive the people I consider to be my friends their occassional moments of crankiness, and look for them to provide me with constructive criticism, but at some point the desire for friendship can't sustain a relationship where the other person is contributing only snide remarks and is clearly experiencing schadenfreude from my misfortunes.

(BTW- I still think you're dead wrong about georgeob1, but it's obviously your call.)

Finn, A well written post that I enjoyed reading.

That is something, which I can't really understand.
Of course, I know all about "Fog in the Channel - Europe separated ..." and such, but
- the British Isles are geographically a part of Europe,
- they are ethically Europeans (especially, when referring to 'Anglo-Saxon')
- their heads of state were/are from (continental) European noble houses.

Walter, I think what Finn was trying to say was the simple fact with all its European-tied history, more recent events of WWI and WWII made the UK and US closer allies. There is no question about the economic ties between the UK and Europe; they are interdependent.

Wars are important influences in foreign relationships, and the fact that Russia is the direct neighbor to Europe cannot be denied. Even Russia had relationships with many European countries during the past century.

I should like to point out that my opinion that claims about the US saving asses in WWII are obnoxious, only apply to Britain and the (then) Crown Colonies (Australia, Canada et al)

This claim cannot be truer than when applied to France, except for the fact that the French should be thanking the Brits as well as us.

When I was a 17 year old hippy, I embarked on the then rite of passage: knap sacking through Europe.

My first stop was Paris because I foolishly believed a HS French teacher that the French loved Americans and everyone there spoke English (I know, I really was a colossal fool).

Immediately upon arriving I learned that if, indeed, the French can all speak English, they choose not to speak it to 17 year American kids with long hair, patched jeans and hole filled sneakers.

On my second night in Paris I attended a party at the apartment of a fellow American who was attending the Sorbonne. There must have been at least 30 people crammed into the small apartment but only three of them were American.

At first it was great fun, in part because these French kids were willing to endure my lousy French and speak in English. This was 1971 and Paris had what I guess could be called hippies as well, except the French hippies all seemed to style their long hair and wear velvet sports jackets and black jeans and such.

In any case, at some point in the night the conversation turned to politics and despite the fact that I couldn't have looked more US counter-culture and I told them I had marched against the Vietnam War in DC, they decided that I was a representative of the Nixon Administration, and a spokesperson for the US Army. After being hectored for what seemed like hours about baby-killing American soldiers, and trying to explain that the vast majority of US kids in Vietnam were decent folks like any of us, I lost my patience and loudly told them something to the effect of:

"You're problem is the United States saved your asses in two World Wars and you resent it."

The next few minutes were a blur as a group of French hippies roughed me up and eventually deposited me in the street outside the apartment building.

I decided it was time to leave Paris and headed for the Metro the next day. While waiting for a train I heard a band playing and sing "I'm Going to Make You Love Me" in English. Anxious for a friendly face I approached them and asked if they were Americans. Turns out they were Brits, but it also turned out they had had enough of Paris and were returning to the UK within the next couple of days. They offered to put me up until then and escort me across the channel, which I gladly accepted.

For a lot of reasons, it was a fortuitous meeting and I'm certainly glad I accepted their generous offer. During the time I spent in the UK I met a lot of British Hippies (their style seems to fit somewhere between French and US hippies) and there was a lot of political discussions, and some which got a little heated (It's amazing how much being in another country and listening to people talk about yours stirs up patriotism-at least it did for me). Never had anything close to my Paris experience, though and found that with a couple of noticeable exceptions, the Brits, I met at least, had something of an underlying fondness for America even though they uniformly despised Nixon and the Vietnam War. They were at least, for the most part, willing to understand that the kids who were sent to fight and die in those hellish jungles were not really different from the rest of us, and as much victims as anyone else involved.

I was anglophile before I visited that first time, and having revisited more times than I can readily number I remain one...at least for the foreseeable future. Once the place becomes Englandistan, all bets are off.

Thank you ci; I'm glad you did.

Yes, but they have a long history of maintaining an identity that was well distinct from mainland Europe.

They are an island nation after all, and hardly have a long history of alliance with any of the continental European countries.

That certainly depends on what you call "a long history" and how you define "well distinct".

But I do agree that the island situation is important .... some of my English friends still are surprised to see different than French and German number plates on British roads ...

I enjoyed your word creation, .

Well, that started when king Offa of Mercia coined gold dinars with the Arabic text "Muhammad is the Apostle of Allah" around 770

But since Offa was a friend of the Franks/Charlemagne and additionally still had friendly contact with his continental Saxon "cousins" ...

Also, the Celts were in Turkey many centuries ago. They were found in the middle of Turkey in the fifth and fourth century BC.

Ankara was re-founded (= occupied) by the Celts in 278 BC.

Thanks for giving your response a lot of time. I can't see 'Englandistan' ever happening, and the word resembles the book title 'Londonistan' by the loathsome Melanie Phillips.

Paris is one of the rudest cities in the world, not all the French are like the Parisians. I had a great time when I was holidaying in the Vendee, and they're quite friendly around the channel ports.

I personally am an advocate of closer ties with Europe, but that's more to to with social welfare and health more than anything else. Also I am a bit envious of the French, in that they have managed to keep the high street shops, huge supermarkets tend to dominate here, and out of town mega-stores have displaced the high street. There's also the feeling that we won't be dominated in Europe. The special relationship is obviously lop sided, but the problem is that our leaders seem to act like poodles, and kow tow instead of acting in the UK's best interests. That's why there is so much suspicion about Fox, and still so much anger, (particularly within the Labour party about Iraq).

I used "speakeasies" as a collective term for the "folks back home" who are all wearing poppies this week to demonstrate their solidarity with the warrior class whilst restricting welfare to injured soldiers and allowing bankers to continue frauding them rather than hanging a few off of lamp-posts. It was a word intended to convey a combination of having a good time in safety and mouthing some easy sentimentalisms.

I apologise for it being pedantically inaccurate. I didn't know it was to do with prohibition which was the most ridiculous policy I have ever heard of.