114
   

Where is the US economy headed?

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Oct, 2011 04:43 pm
@hawkeye10,
There are some signs of hope. There are now huge protests against wall street and in the major capitals around the world on the economy. Added to that, many head of companies are beginning to understand a bit about sharing the wealth with the workers in their companies, because they are the creators of the wealth. Most taxpayers want our government to cut our deficit; how that's done is another issue (too many options).

We can cross and fingers and hope; that's about all there is.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Oct, 2011 05:18 pm
@cicerone imposter,
And ci is on the record on numerous occasions as a belittler of superstitions. And here he is stating that a superstition is "all there is". About. Which rhymes with doubt. Fortunately.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Oct, 2011 05:31 pm
Intellectual thinking!

0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Oct, 2011 06:07 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Added to that, many head of companies are beginning to understand a bit about sharing the wealth with the workers in their companies, because they are the creators of the wealth.


OH, REALLY!


Who?

Let me guess, you are talking about companies like GM where the workers took cuts in guaranteed pay and instead are taking it provisionally in the form of profit sharing bonus checks...right? This being the same GM that pays new hires about 70% of what "legacy" workers make, so new workers are taking far far less money then GM workers used to get.....but hey,,,,they might get 10% of the lost wages back in profit sharing so now GM is all progressive....right?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Oct, 2011 07:08 pm
@hawkeye10,
Yes, really!

Quote:
NTUC to look at raising workers' wages through sharing gains

Published on Oct 14, 2011



The National Trades Union Congress (NTUC) received strong support from its delegates on Thursday morning to look into how it can get more companies to share productivity gains with workers, better represent the professionals, and strengthen union leadership renewal.

By Kor Kian Beng

The National Trades Union Congress (NTUC) received strong support from its delegates on Thursday morning to look into how it can get more companies to share productivity gains with workers, better represent the professionals, and strengthen union leadership renewal.

Nearly 99 per cent of the 367 voting delegates at a rarely-held extraordinary conference backed one of three resolutions passed that employers must work with unions to ensure productivity gains are shared with workers so as to raise their wages.

The second resolution, which received 97 per cent of support through secret ballot, gave the labour movement the mandate to seek ways to expand unions' ability and scope to represent white-collar workers, in light of their growing ranks in the workforce.

Delegates also backed the third resolution for the NTUC to formally adopt its leadership renewal framework for the apex decision-making Central Committee (CC). The move, which received 88 per cent of support, means no one aged 62 and above can be elected into the CC.


It's been proven by economists that union wages and benefits also helps non-union workers. That's in Econ 101.

http://www.epi.org/publication/briefingpapers_bp143/
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Oct, 2011 07:40 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Yes, really!


Not really...talking about it being a good idea is not doing it. I see almost no movement towards spreading the wealth around to the employees any more than the bare minimum. The CEO pay verses Average employee pay spread has never been worse, just to give one example.

EDIT: and it is not even anyone who would need to do the sharing that you quote saying it is a good idea....can you show any CEO's, boards and major stockholders who advocate for paying employees any more than the least that the labor market demands in the name of fairness or good capitalist practice??
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Wed 19 Oct, 2011 09:05 pm
http://www.balloon-juice.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/ows-abacus-sign.jpg

Cycloptichorn
Builder
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Oct, 2011 10:04 pm
What do you make of this recent news, people?

Quote:
This story from Bloomberg just hit the wires this morning. Bank of America is shifting derivatives in its Merrill investment banking unit to its depository arm, which has access to the Fed discount window and is protected by the FDIC.

This means that the investment bank's European derivatives exposure is now backstopped by U.S. taxpayers. Bank of America didn't get regulatory approval to do this, they just did it at the request of frightened counterparties. Now the Fed and the FDIC are fighting as to whether this was sound. The Fed wants to "give relief" to the bank holding company, which is under heavy pressure.

This is a direct transfer of risk to the taxpayer done by the bank without approval by regulators and without public input. You will also read below that JP Morgan is apparently doing the same thing with $79 trillion of notional derivatives guaranteed by the FDIC and Federal Reserve.

What this means for you is that when Europe finally implodes and banks fail, U.S. taxpayers will hold the bag for trillions in CDS insurance contracts sold by Bank of America and JP Morgan. Even worse, the total exposure is unknown because Wall Street successfully lobbied during Dodd-Frank passage so that no central exchange would exist keeping track of net derivative exposure.

This is a recipe for Armageddon. Bernanke is absolutely insane. No wonder Geithner has been hopping all over Europe begging and cajoling leaders to put together a massive bailout of troubled banks. His worst nightmare is Eurozone bank defaults leading to the collapse of the large U.S. banks who have been happily selling default insurance on European banks since the crisis began.



http://dailybail.com/home/holy-bailout-federal-reserve-now-backstopping-75-trillion-of.html
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Oct, 2011 12:31 am
@hawkeye10,
What is IDK?
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Oct, 2011 12:41 am
@RABEL222,
I Don't Know
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Oct, 2011 09:47 am
@Builder,
I've always been critical of Bernanke (and Greenspan) for their stupidity; they don't know what the hell they are doing. Cheap money got us into trouble, and now they will stick the taxpayer again for bank losses. Stupid people get selected by our government to run the feds. We don't have a prayer.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Oct, 2011 09:49 am
@hawkeye10,
No. I can't help it if you ignore what's said in the article.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Oct, 2011 11:57 am
@cicerone imposter,
I don't understand that stuff. All that money and effort on elections and ci is saying that it is likely better if your government officials were chosen by lot. Unless, of course, Mr Bernanke is less stupid that the voters.

Builder
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Oct, 2011 02:27 pm
@spendius,
It would appear from the evidence that voting is currently pointless in the US, as we've been saying about Australian politics for quite some time.

Not sure if Bernanke was appointed or voted in, but the banks appear to be playing on a rigged wheel, or with loaded dice. Whatever happens, they don't lose.
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Oct, 2011 02:32 pm
@spendius,
Like the smartest man I ever heard said "stupid is as stupid does".
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Thu 20 Oct, 2011 02:32 pm
@Builder,
I doubt spendi understands anything associated with politics or finance. His major interest is in his local pub.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Oct, 2011 02:55 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

http://www.balloon-juice.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/ows-abacus-sign.jpg

Cycloptichorn


Glad to see you finally recognize the problem with government-controlled quasi corporations (Fannie & Freddy) using government guarantees to get cheap credit and using the money for the wholesale purchase of mortgages and packaging them as described in the sign, for resale as securities - thereby recapitalizing an already greatly overheated market and in the process creating new moral hazards for the issuers of mortgages and risks for the financial institutions buying the securities they issued.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Oct, 2011 03:07 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
Glad to see you finally recognize the problem with government-controlled quasi corporations (Fannie & Freddy) using government guarantees to get cheap credit and using the money for the wholesale purchase of mortgages and packaging them as described in the sign, for resale as securities - thereby recapitalizing an already greatly overheated market and in the process creating new moral hazards for the issuers of mortgages and risks for the financial institutions buying the securities they issued.


Der Spiegel has a very long very analysis of what went wrong with the Eu and Euro here
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,790138,00.html

Where they conclude that one of the main problems is the the Europeans did not follow their own claimed rules, so now no one trusts them to support the Euro and pay their bills. What we have seen across the board, both in the public and the private and all across the globe is the erosion of standards, and this dishonesty about standards. We see that in Freddie and Fannie where the US claims that we run but capitalism rules, when we dont, and more specifically when we claimed that these were private institutions running by capitalism rules when in fact they were always government institutions.


We dont fix what ails the human race until and unless we re-learn how to live honestly and relearn how to adopt and live by standards. I think the masses know this by way of common sense, which is why it no longer matters what the words are coming out of Washington and Europe. The credibility of almost all of the elites is now in tatters. The best of the lot in American now is unbelievably is the military leaders.....who would have thunk it after Vietnam??!!
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Oct, 2011 03:30 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
very long very analysis


very long and very interesting analysis
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Oct, 2011 03:30 pm
@hawkeye10,
I agree.

In the EU, coincident with the creation of the common currency the signatory nations created a "stability and control pact" that obliged governments using the Euro t0 meet prudent fiscal & budgetary standards. These included strict limits on annual deficits and total government borrowing. Soon afterwards the major EU countries (interestingly including Germany) began to find the annual restrictions of the stability pact too inconvenient. At first a steady stream of exceptions were granted and soon it was abandoned altogether. Greece and other member states apparently took this as a green light to abandon financial prudence entirely and, aided by some budgetary fraud, their left wing governments began a series of chronic deficits with successive government giveaways designed to curry favor with parts of the electorate to keep themselves in power. It all culminated after the financial crisis with a national debt in excess of (then) 160% of GDP, and a government chronically unable to meet current expenditures with current income.

There is a lesson here for us.
 

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