114
   

Where is the US economy headed?

 
 
reasoning logic
 
  0  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2011 02:59 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
Why did you fail to address the point I made about Mr Obama being elected, society's voice, to share wealth more evenly and finding himself unable to carry out to choice of the people?


I do not know enough about the situation to make a good post in my opinion.

I think that Obama is only one person and he can not do it all by himself as it requires many others to make it happen.

I do question Obama's sincerity!

Many will think I am crazy but I question Obama about this

PS Spendius it is less than 2 minutes long!


0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2011 03:00 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
Why did you fail to address the point I made about Mr Obama being elected, society's voice, to share wealth more evenly
Obama never campaigned on that platform, he never sought that mandate.....the closest he came was in calling for equitable distribution of Great Recession pain.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2011 03:11 pm
@hawkeye10,
I'm not so sure about that. Obama, like all other candidates, campaigned on many, sometimes contradictory, proposals and values. It appears very clear to me that many of his supporters believed he would initiate actions to more uniformly share the wealth in this country.

However, in response to Spendi, the facts that he may have proposed it and his supporters believed him, does not necessarily mean that the specific actions they later propose to achieve it must necessasarily occur in this (or any ) democracy. In many areas, ranging from health care to financial regulation, tax policy and budgetary restraint, large numbers of Americans have found they don't like what he is proposing.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2011 03:25 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
I'm not so sure about that. Obama, like all other candidates, campaigned on many, sometimes contradictory, proposals and values. It appears very clear to me that many of his supporters believed he would initiate actions to more uniformly share the wealth in this country
The hopes and dreams of some of those who voted for him do not equal either a mandate nor a promise to work towards those things. I think there was an assumption made that Obama was not saying the words because he was trying to appear moderate so that he could get elected, but that once he got into office he would govern as a liberal. He has of course not done this, which is why the left is so pissed at him....about the only Liberal thing he has done is push for his idiotic ObamaCare plan, but you noted I hope that he only did this after getting approval from the corporations who run the healthcare system, and that in the end not much was asked or taken from them....
0 Replies
 
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2011 03:41 pm
Dear IRS,

I sent you another check yesterday. You should have it by tomorrow, and dare I ask, could you please try to spend it wisely? I mean, is it really necessary for Congress to have their bottled water delivered to them at the cost of hundreds of thousands of dollars by the taxpayers? No one delivers free bottled water to me at taxpayer expense.

Also, is it really necessary to have up to 82 agencies to manage just one bureaucracy? Really?

OK, I won't even mention Solyndra. I don't think you'll want to, either.

Sincerely,
Irish(you can expect another check in Dec.)K
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2011 03:47 pm
@Irishk,
Quote:
I sent you another check yesterday. You should have it by tomorrow, and dare I ask, could you please try to spend it wisely? I mean, is it really necessary for Congress to have their bottled water delivered to them at the cost of hundreds of thousands of dollars by the taxpayers? No one delivers free bottled water to me at taxpayer expense.
Let's make sure they turn down the heat more too, and use only the cheapest of the BIC pens, as they can wear sweaters and BIC pens do sort of work so they should be fine....*sarcasm*

This goes under the heading of American public squalor.

Quote:
Should members of Congress get a pay cut as part of efforts to cut the federal deficit?

Yes.......94%..............162533
No.....6%.........10184

http://www.cnn.com/
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2011 03:57 pm
@hawkeye10,
I might have to report you to #attackwatch for that sarcasm.

And then you'll probably get audited.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2011 05:09 pm
@hawkeye10,
If I was king the congress pay and health care would be directly tie to the average pay and benefits of the average worker.

So if real income go down for the average worker they would get a pay cut and of course the reverse if the real income would go up.

For once they might care about the working class and the middle class between elections cycles.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2011 05:21 pm
@BillRM,
That sounds better than the plan we have right now! If we could get the whole population to jump on board we might be somewhere. I could only guess that 90% of the population would go along with that idea!
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2011 05:25 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
If I was king the congress pay and health care would be directly tie to the average pay and benefits of the average worker.
At what mulitiple?? The CEO on average in America makes well over 500 times what the average worker in his firm makes, the mean annual wage in America is $44K
http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_nat.htm#00-0000

So with Representatives making $153K we are getting a bargain, right? LESS THAN 4 TIMES THE AVERAGE!


EDIT: how about Board members, who mostly work very little

Quote:
At micro companies-those with $50 million to $500 million in revenues–directors received an average of $90,775 each for a one-year term. Some $36,825 of that was in cash.
At small companies–those with $500 million to $1 billion in revenues–directors got an average of $119, 408 each. Some $45,750 of that was in cash.
At medium-sized companies–those with $1 to $2.5 billion in sales–directors got an average of $148,476, with about $54,000 of that coming in cash.
At large companies–those with more than $2.5 billion in sales–directors got an average of $175,750, with about $64,000 of that in cash.
At the 200 largest companies in the S&P500, as determined by revenues, directors received an average of $228,058, with $90,000 of that in cash.

http://www.bnet.com/blog/business-research/corporate-board-members-still-getting-nice-pay-raises/1105

Modern Congress members work more than full time between washington duties, pan handling and constituent care....shouldn't they make as much a board members of the big firms, people who work only a few days a month???
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2011 05:38 pm
@hawkeye10,
I guess I would start at their current salary as the important thing is to made them feel pain at the same time as the average citizen feel pain and to give them a good reason to care about the average citizen finance wellbeing.

Oh their pensions would be tied into the average retirement income including SS payments.

No more talk about doing away with the SS program or reducing the 401 tax breaks to lower the taxes on the wealthy.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2011 06:05 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
I guess I would start at their current salary as the important thing is to made them feel pain at the same time as the average citizen feel pain and to give them a good reason to care about the average citizen finance wellbeing.
HUM...Lower compensation in the hopes of getting better quality people in the chair.....let me think about that idea for a spell. *sarcasm*

Quote:
Oh their pensions would be tied into the average retirement income including SS payments
You like the tea party idea that citizens should go to Washington only or short periods then right...so as to cut back on the pension we owe them??

Quote:
No more talk about doing away with the SS program or reducing the 401 tax breaks to lower the taxes on the wealthy.
Man you are really jaded...do you give NO quarter to their assertion that they are public servants, that they are in Washington for us and not for them?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2011 06:25 pm
@hawkeye10,
I'm not sure where the sarcasm begins and ends.
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Sep, 2011 01:35 am
@BillRM,
Speaking of Social Security, I heard that the great Democrat FDR promised in one of his fireside chats that Social Security benefits would never be taxed. Now, the government would never lie to us, especially the great FDR, would they? That must be totally in error?
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Sep, 2011 05:15 am
In 1818 Sir Robert Peel introduced a bill in the Commons to regulate the working hours of the " poor children in the Cotton Factories". The bill was to prohibit children under 9 from working and limiting working hours to 12 in 24.

It was seen as setting a historic precedent for government interference in privately owned industry. Peel's family owned cotton mills and his fellow industrialists considered him a traitor.

One prominent supporter of the bill wrote--

Quote:
The rich manufacturers were blindly justifying such treatment through the "so called" science of political economy, which allowed them to manage human beings in terms of profit and accountancy, as pure abstractions, "like Geometry". It is a science which begins with abstractions, in order to exclude whatever is not subject to a technical calculation: in the face of all experience, it assumes these as the whole of human nature--and then on an impossible hypothesis builds up the most inhuman edifice, a Temple of Tescalipocal*.


*An Aztec god with a throne built of skulls.

Granted we are not in the same situation now but when the fuss generated by the maid in the Strauss-Khan case is considered it is to be expected that any death due to poverty be given at least equivalent consideration if the US is to be absolved of the charge of being neurotically sex obsessed and uncaring about infant mortality in poor areas.

At the time of the election campaign the big word was "CHANGE". At that time the wealth distribution was "X". So change could mean nothing else but to promote an increase or a decrease in X.

According to what I see on CBS and FOX news the wealth gap has increased in favour of the rich during Mr Obama's tenure. Which is "change" and therefore an election promise of great magnitude has been delivered.

But the general point about using scientific abstractions to justify actions unrelated to human experience, and incapable of measuring the effects on people, is relevant to debates about religion and its role. That the ability to determine the age of a fossil (plus or minus about 10 million years) is offered in justification of the eradication of religious influence in schools across the nation is so ridiculous that I often wonder about the sanity of those who present it and those who take any notice of them.

The arguments about requiring the rich to contribute more to solving the financial crisis is going on here as well. It has been announced that 2,000 new tax inspectors are to be recruited with the specific task of getting the rich to pay more. And there is the makings of a split in our coalition government on the issue possibly over whether the 2,000 are going to be the sons and daughters of the rich or rabid, left wing hotheads.

But the main point is that the uneven distribution of wealth is killing people. Children included. And the Sofitel maid's false allegations were blown up out of all proportion to distract us from these matters under the direction of Mr Cyrus Vance Jnr who, I think it is safe to say, got a little bit over stimulated.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Sep, 2011 06:26 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
I'm not sure where the sarcasm begins and ends.


I am. I thought of any easy way to search for your gold bubble idea which you later vehementally denied.

You wrote in early May--

Quote:
rjb, I don't remember when it was, but recently, that I encouraged people to sell their gold.

I don't understand people who have shown great value increases that almost doubled their investment to hang on further. Greed gets them every time. When people have the opportunity to increase their original investment by over 75%, it's time to sell and take your profit off the table. After paying commissions and taxes, you still gain 50%+. (It averages out to about 16%/year; about the best return one can get from most investments in today's investment market.)

Most people never learn that simple lesson.


That wasn't the post I had in mind which used the term bubble but it will do to prove that you recommended selling gold at about $1,495. Which you denied and called me a liar for reminding you of it. Gold is now about $1,820.

So much for your economic nonce and for your indignant denials.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Sep, 2011 07:53 am
@spendius,
But Spendi, when I read that statement and compare it to your statement I see nothing about a gold bubble popping in CIs statement.

Quote:
And it's obvious that ci. doesn't understand the "important" issues of the day. He opined that the gold bubble would pop at $1495. I hope nobody took any action on his prophesy.


You are free to interpret what you read however you want spendi, but you shouldn't imagine words that were never said.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Sep, 2011 08:17 am
@parados,

Note this is spendius quote no parados......

Quote:
And it's obvious that ci. doesn't understand the "important" issues of the day. He opined that the gold bubble would pop at $1495. I hope nobody took any action on his prophesy.


Getting out of gold now or even when it was 1400 hundreds is a good idea in my opinion as when the bubble will burst and at what price point is unknowable but burst it will do in the same manner and for the same reasons as all other bubbles had burst in the past including silver and god bubbles.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -3  
Reply Mon 19 Sep, 2011 08:29 am



Obama's ignorant plan to increase taxes on the rich will result in
reduced revenues taken in by the government and it will kill jobs.
H2O MAN
 
  -4  
Reply Mon 19 Sep, 2011 10:46 am


This Buffet Tax Increase is a scam designed to fleece working Americans.


Oust Obama in 2012.
0 Replies
 
 

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