Where is the US economy headed?

Dow is off something like 370 points right now.

Tea Party downgrade, indeed. This is what they wanted and called for, remember, as you watch things unfold this week.

Cycloptichorn

3 Replies

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
First we have the housing bubble and now the gold bubble
Perhaps it is irrational pessimism, but no number highlights the psycology of the market better than does the gold price.

That price is expressed in $ - all it reflects is distrust of holding $ in cash. For general market psychology look at the gold-platinum cross rates; when gold trades higher than platinum (it did earlier today) there's real pessimism about economic growth because platinum is more widely used in industry.

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Cyclo,
Placing blame serves no purpose at this point ... although I'm sure we'll be seeing lots of that over the next few weeks/months. S&P downrated us for a poisonous political climate that made the future look bleak as to any progress toward improving our financial outlook (both on limiting expenditures as well as increasing revenues) ... pointing fingers at one party or the other only validates S&P's assessment and does nothing to solve the problem.

Therefore I certainly hope that any childish fault-finding stops very quickly and the Govt gets to work on proving our financial viability thru appropriate reforms. If the incumbents in our Govt show less interest in solving the problem than scoring points on their political opponent then, in 2012, the responsible citizen should vote out the lot of them (from the President on down).

2 Replies

@High Seas,

The price of gold is expressed in dollars HS merely because the dollar is the biggest currency as is to be expected because America has the biggest of everything spiritually speaking.

The exchange rate system provides a ready convertibilty to any other traded currency and indeed traded commodity. So what the current record price of gold actually represents is a distrust of cash, shares and those commodities which we have a choice about.

Gold is also used in industry. I don't think that the gold/platinum rate reflects anything as substantial as you say. There could be increased demand for platinum and a still larger increased demand for gold. The demand for both must be increasing in both India and China. Possibly Brazil. I have read that such is the case. And both metals are internationally traded.

You seem to have fallen into the idea that the US is the world economy and just such an idea, when widespread, might well be the cause of the factors contributing to the pessimism.

It might be the case that the platinum/gold rate is no more than a sort of astrological sign teleologised from past experience and having no bearing on the future.

What have you to say about us optimists?

1 Reply

@spendius,

Rest assured we follow international news where I'm sitting - perhaps you should follow your local news as well before commenting on gold prices

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2011/8/8/1312789899556/Rioting-in-Brixton-002.jpg

2 Replies

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

....A bubble is a bubble is a bubble and it does indeed say something about human nature but does not reflect any underlying economic reality beyond that.

Sure it does - but only after you stop being blinded by money illusion: the gold price today ($1710/oz) is lower than in the last bubble if you count in 2011 $:

http://media.economist.com/images/images-magazine/2011/07/23/WO/20110723_WOC220.gif

0 Replies

@High Seas,

Quote:

Rest assured we follow international news where I'm sitting - perhaps you should follow your local news as well before commenting on gold prices.

I think it is a very important cause of the current pessimism that the accumulation of trillions of those sort of remarks, passing muster as reasonable and intelligent conversation among those who have consumed a very expensive education, piling up to such a massive heap that they even choke the weeds.

0 Replies

@slkshock7,

slkshock7 wrote:

Cyclo,
Placing blame serves no purpose at this point ...

Of course it serves a purpose: it highlights the very salient fact that roughly 1/4 of our elected representatives called for this to happen, cheered it on, and forced the US to take a crappy deal instead of a good one to raise the ceiling. These people cannot and should not be trusted with further fiscal policy making, because they are fools who know nothing about which they speak.

It's crazy to say that there's no purpose in pointing this out to people. There most certainly is a purpose: to prevent similar catastrophes from happening in the future.

I'm sure you do consider fault-finding to be 'childish,' as it mostly implicates the party you support. The truth is that the GOP ran up tremendous bills over the last decade and had no intention of ever paying for them; and now that they are coming due, their solution is to cut social and safety net spending to the bone. It's farcical in the extreme and I do not believe it is fair to say that the blame is shared by all.

Luckily for me and mine, polling shows that the voters mostly agree with my position. Not so lucky for the 'run up huge bills and then magically pivot to being Conservative' crowd.

Cycloptichorn

2 Replies

Obama is a one-term proposition

0 Replies

@High Seas,

High Seas wrote:

At first glance they looked like Black Panther members outside a US voting location...

0 Replies

Obama's recession worsens by the hour and his primary
concern is how his reputation will be tarnished...

The US needs to replace this assclown and elect a true leader.

0 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

Good luck with the argument that the GOP is the party that has "ran up tremendous bills over the last decade and had no intention of ever paying for them"....The GOP certainly has some culpability especially during the Bush years, but it's astoundingly foolish to say that it's entirely on the GOP.

1 Reply

@slkshock7,

slkshock7 wrote:

Good luck with the argument that the GOP is the party that has "ran up tremendous bills over the last decade and had no intention of ever paying for them"....

Are you smoking something here?

2 rounds of tax cuts
Medicare part D
2 wars which were incompetently ran

ALL of which are the major drivers of our deficit at this time. And all were aggressively pushed by the GOP, with no plan of how they would be funded, at all. You can't argue with this. Hell, your top leaders famously said 'deficits don't matter.' Remember?

Quote:

The GOP certainly has some culpability especially during the Bush years, but it's astoundingly foolish to say that it's entirely on the GOP.

All of the above happened while the GOP controlled the presidency and BOTH houses of Congress. So, you're completely wrong here; there is no other way to describe it other than to say that the GOP caused these problems. And I think it's also fair to say that the 'business can self-regulate' attitude that led to the financial crash can be pinned right on the GOP as well, who was not only in charge while all the nefariousness went down, but said that this would never, ever happen - if gov't would just get out of the way and let businesses self-police....

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Even if what you say is totally correct, that still does not excuse the dems.
If the dems had held their ground, instead of caving, then they might have gotten the better deal you think they should have gotten.

I am no fan of the tea party, but I will give them credit for hoolding their ground and not giving in.
Its not their fault that the dems caved.

1 Reply

@mysteryman,

mysteryman wrote:

Even if what you say is totally correct, that still does not excuse the dems.
If the dems had held their ground, instead of caving, then they might have gotten the better deal you think they should have gotten.

I actually don't think the deal was all that terrible, though it was irresponsible on the part of the GOP to threaten our stability in that way, and it is causing real pain already.

If the Dems had 'held their ground,' the Tea Party would have kept ANY deal from happening, and we would be much worse off; because, remember, this group WANTED a default to happen. They were cheering for a default. They wouldn't have simply knuckled under because one happened.

Quote:

I am no fan of the tea party, but I will give them credit for hoolding their ground and not giving in.
Its not their fault that the dems caved.

Dude, I don't even know what to say to this. It's like congratulating a bunch of terrorists for being sincere in their beliefs. The 'ground' that they held was foolish in the extreme and has precipitated a whole host of problems for the US. Our government works on compromise - that's how it was designed to work by the founding fathers - and when one segment rejects the concept of any and all compromises, it damages all of us and our ability to move forward in the future with any confidence.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

The repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act took place in 1999 Cyclo.

1 Reply

@spendius,

spendius wrote:

The repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act took place in 1999 Cyclo.

Yes, and we have that big-business Democrat Clinton to thank for signing it. You won't find me defending his record on issues such as this.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Quote:

Dude, I don't even know what to say to this. It's like congratulating a bunch of terrorists for being sincere in their beliefs. The 'ground' that they held was foolish in the extreme and has precipitated a whole host of problems for the US. Our government works on compromise - that's how it was designed to work by the founding fathers - and when one segment rejects the concept of any and all compromises, it damages all of us and our ability to move forward in the future with any confidence.

That's one long-winded assertion Cyclo. It's absolute rubbish as well.

0 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

Quote:

Yes, and we have that big-business Democrat Clinton to thank for signing it. You won't find me defending his record on issues such as this.

Yeah--well--when Mr Bush took office it was repealed.

1 Reply

Is it just me or is Cyclotroll in a panic?

0 Replies

Where is the US economy headed?

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know