@plainoldme,
plainoldme wrote:
Your disdain needed to be put into perspective. Is there anyone you like?
I don't think you accomplished that objective.
There are lots of folks out there whom I like and admire: you just don't know any of them.
@reasoning logic,
Realjohnboy being that you did not respond, should I take this as if you did not know what you were talking about, as I do at times?
@reasoning logic,
Sorry, I missed a couple of pages. My attention lately has been on Egypt, which hasn't been on A2K. This could be a huge story. Mubarak will, I think, not be able to hang on to power for more than a few more days...or a week.
What was the question re what I did not know what I was talking about? There are so many.
@realjohnboy,
If we are going to call it the Oct 6th bridge Do we not need to explain why, "so that other viewers will not misunderstand?
@reasoning logic,
Oct 6th, 1973, was when Egypt attacked Israel. Yom Kippur, I believe. Oct 6th, 1981, was when Anwar Sadat was assasinated by Muslim extremists.
I got to Cairo later in Oct, 1973, by the way.
@realjohnboy,
Been to Cairo in 1998 and 2002; never felt or thought the Egyptians had that kind of resentment against their government. The workers at the hotels were always friendly.
It was difficult to decide where to post this piece of news about two men that I feel are inherently evil, the koch brothers.
I decided to post it on the economy thread because it illustrates that the real threat to the American economy comes from within: the captains of industry who -- as demonstrated by US Census Bureau Data -- have made certain that their incomes have soared while 80% of the American workforce has seen its wages stagnate.
As Tea Party Koch Brothers Earned An Extra $11 Billion In Recent Years, They Laid Off Thousands
David and Charles Koch, co-owners of Koch Industries and primary financiers of the Tea Party, have amassed one of the world’s largest private fortunes and Koch Industries is the second largest privately held company in America. Koch sycophants in the media have attacked anyone daring to criticize the company because Koch Industries employs nearly 50,000 people, according to a study produced by Koch Industries last week. In the last two years, David and Charles Koch have jumped from each being worth $16 billion to now being worth $21.5 billion. That means together they went from being worth $31 billion dollars to being worth $42 billion today. David is now the richest man in New York City, and the pair are now on the nation’s top ten list for richest Americans.
However, at a time when the Koch brothers were enjoying spectacular financial gains, Koch Industries laid off well over 2,000 people. Using the same approximate “jobs multiplier” Koch Industries used in its study last week, that means Koch Industries extinguished nearly 8,000 jobs in recent years:
– Koch’s John Zink Company subsidiary laid off 63 people in Tulsa, Oklahoma.
– Koch’s Georgia Pacific subsidiary laid off 118 people at its Roxboro, North Carolina plant.
– Koch laid off 50 people at its INVISTA plant in Wilmington, Delaware.
– Koch’s Georgia Pacific subsidiary laid off 158 people at a paper-making plant in Green Bay, Wisconsin. Most of the jobs have been replaced with automated machines.
– Koch’s INVISTA subsidiary laid off 50 people at its plant in Athens, Georgia.
– Koch laid off 150 people at its headquarters in Wichita, Kansas.
– Koch laid off 500 people at its Seaford, Delaware INVISTA plant.
– Koch laid off 400 people in its Waynesboro, Indiana INVISTA plant. As one of the primary employers in the city, the layoffs were expected to have serious ripple effects. City officials said layoffs at Invista will “force cuts across Waynesboro.” “The rest of the community, this will probably instill a bit of a wake-up call and they will cut back also,” predicted Waynesboro Vice Mayor Frank Lucente.
– Koch laid off 320 people at its Georgia Pacific plywood plant in Cleveland, Texas.
– Koch laid off 60 people at its INVISTA plant in Victoria, Texas.
– Koch laid off 169 people from its Flint Hills Resources plant in Odessa, Texas.
– Koch laid off 300 people at its Georgia Pacific plant in Monroeville, Alabama.
– Koch “indefinitely” idled its 60-worker Georgia Pacific mill in Louisville, Mississippi.
The Koch downsizing isn’t limited to the United States. In England, Koch laid off workers at its chemical plant in Wilton, England and closed down its INVISTA plant in Offenbach, Germany.
Koch Industries pretends that it thrives from the “free market,” and that the government only inhibits its growth. But in reality, as Koch slashed jobs, the company exploited government contracts, public forests, public land, narrow corporate loopholes, eminent domain seizures of private land, and has demanded taxpayer bailouts for its refineries.
Moreover, while Koch Industries has interests in a number of different businesses, much of its money is made by simply polluting for free. The core of Koch’s immense profits are based on burning fossil fuels that contribute to climate change, while not paying a dime for these “externalities.” For instance, Koch refines oil, including high carbon Canadian crude, at its Minnesota refinery, Koch owns one of the largest oil pipeline networks in America, Koch manufacturers fertilizer, Koch sells products for mining coal and owns coal-burning power plants, Koch transports coal, oil and natural gas, and finally, Koch sells financial derivative instruments to bet on the price of its own products, like oil or natural gas. Because Koch Industries gets rich burning fossil fuels, the Koch brothers are the largest funders of climate change denying organizations and “libertarian” nonprofits in the world. Koch political donations have helped the company escape serious prosecution for emitting cancer-causing chemicals as well.
By Lee Fang | Sourced from 1304
Posted at February 1, 2011, 1:49 pm
@plainoldme,
What do you expect paper companies to do with their workforce when demand for their products falls?
Do you suppose that the various Koch companies are laying off employees unjustly, or, as are many other employers across the country are doing, because economic activity and demand for their products have declined ? Automating plants is a way of raising productivity through investment and preserving some of the jobs involved. The alternative is to allow the plant to become non-competitive and eventually close entirely costing the employees and the community all of the jobs.
Just a few weeks ago Evergreen Solar, a green power company much touted by Governor Patrick, and the recipient of a $58 million cash grant from the state, announced it was shutting down its Massachusetts plant and the jobs of all 800 employees , and moving operations to China where the government had offered them even larger subsidies and cheaper labor. Evergreen is not returning the $58 million it got from Massachusetts. The Koch brothers didn't do that. It was a modern "Green" , "new technology" , non polluting company thatr did that.
@georgeob1,
I so wish your power of reasoning were more developed.
@plainoldme,
Developed down to your level ??? How could you possibly tell.?
You present this pasted screed with an utterly ordinary litany of company employment contractions & layoffs (hardly unusual in these economic times), but without any numerical measures of the relative extent of layoffs or the numbers of new employees added in other areas or comparative data for other companies in the same industries. In short it is an out-of-context list of unverified data that proves or demonstrates nothing - certainly not your claims that they are the essence of evil.
You are merely credulously pasting prefabricated conclusions and propagana from those whom you allow to do your thinking for you.
The truth is that you likely know virtually nothing about these companies or their performance relative to comparable others like them. Very little in the way of reasoning ability is required to detect the mindless quality of the propaganda you paste here, and your own lack of understanding of what is behind it all.
@Cycloptichorn,
Cyclo, It's bad enough that we have over 25 million in our ranks unemployed, and all levels of government cutting jobs based on prolonged deficits. Cutting social security and Medicare will make us into a third world country, and we'll fall behind Greece and Ireland. It'll impoverish most seniors in this country, and that will begin the biggest rank of the homeless of any developed country.
It's a wonder that our citizens aren't protesting how our government continues to battle what's in the best interest of our citizens, and divert them to Egypt and Jordan.
@cicerone imposter,
Amen cicerone imposter, even though I am not religious but if you ever decide to start a new religion You might count me in! LOL
rl, I'm not in any position to advise you on financial matters that relates to "unsecured debt." Sorry.
@cicerone imposter,
You must have not seen the spam! I was just making a joke about it but it seems that they caught it and deleted it!
Ugly unemployment report out today.
@realjohnboy,
rjb, Unemployment at current levels will impact our long-term outlook for our economy, because that also impacts what's happening to home-owners who cannot keep up with their mortgage payments. Many are walking away from their over-priced homes, and the banks have yet to recognize these losses on their books. The banks are in big trouble, but the stock market seems to speculate on the reported higher incomes of the big banks; all fraudulent.
I see another bubble brewing.
Where is the US Economy Headed?
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2051527/posts
Maximum income tax rates were decreased from 70% in 1981 to 35% in 2003, and remained at 35% 2003 - 2010.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy2009/pdf/hist.pdf
Federal Receipts during the period 1980 - 2007 increased from $0.517 to $2.568 trillion, and during the period 2007 - 2010 decreased from $2.568 trillion to $2,165 trillion.
Federal Outlays during the period 1980 - 2010 increased from $0.591 to $3.721 trillion.
Federal Deficits during the period 1980 - 2000 decreased from -$0.0738 to +$0.236 trillion, and during the period 2000 - 2010 increased from +$0.236 trillion to -$1.556 trillion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_U.S._public_debt
Year………GROSS FEDERAL DEBT
1980.......$0.908 trillion [CARTER]
1988….….$2.602 trillion [REAGAN], average annual increase 1980 - 1988 = $0.2118 trillion
1992........$4.065 trillion [BUSH41], average annual increase 1988 - 1992 = $0.3658 trillion
2000.......$5.674 trillion [CLINTON], average annual increase 1992 - 2000 = $0.2011 trillion
2008.......$10.025 trillion [BUSH43], average annual increase 2000 - 2008 = $0.5439 trillion
2010.......$13.562 trillion [OBAMA], average annual increase 2008 - 2010 = $1.7685 trillion
ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/suppl/empsit.cpseea1.txt
Civilian Non-institutional
Population during the period 1980 - 2010 increased from 168 to 238 million.
Total US Civil
Employment during the period 1980 - 2007 increased from 99.3 to 146 million, and during the period 2007 - 2010 decreased from 146 to 139 million.
Is it possible that Obama truly feels that the purpose of business
in this country is to provide jobs that pay decent wages ??????????
BUSINESS OBLIGATION
@H2O MAN,
Thats what our illustrative president said. What do you expect out of guy that knows virtually nothing about running a business?