114
   

Where is the US economy headed?

 
 
parados
 
  0  
Reply Sun 2 Jan, 2011 10:12 pm
@okie,
Quote:
Perhaps they could have clarified the data a bit better, but it appears that the way GSA presented the data is the biggest problem, not Fox. In fact, it appears that government building square footage increased by about 8% in just one year, parados, and that proves Fox had the general thrust of the news right, that the government was increasing their building space, not decreasing it.

It doesn't prove anything since you can't tell us which agency had the increases in square footage. In fact it only points out further lies by FOX to bring this up. You repeat the lies told by FOX as if they had some basis in fact. They don't. You are now making things up okie. Is that what a NEWS organization is supposed to do? Make things up?

Which agencies increased square footage? Can you tell us it wasn't the military? If so, where are the facts?
parados
 
  0  
Reply Sun 2 Jan, 2011 10:14 pm
@okie,
This has nothing to do with defending government expenditures okie. It has to do with FOX News reporting lies. Are you willing to admit that FOX lied when it claimed the number of increased buildings?
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Jan, 2011 10:15 pm
@parados,
Okay, I see, if GSA reports two office areas in the same building, and calls it two buildings in their report, Fox is lying when they report it as two buildings, not GSA? Is Fox now supposed to do GSA's work for them and get them to properly explain their own statistics?
parados
 
  0  
Reply Sun 2 Jan, 2011 10:17 pm
@okie,
The GSA never calls it 2 buildings. Your inability to read simple English doesn't make a building asset 2 buildings. It only shows you have an inability to read simple English.

That could be FOX News' problem but as a news organization isn't it their job to check their facts? They are either sloppy in their fact gathering or lying on purpose. Either way the report is factually incorrect.
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Jan, 2011 10:21 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:
Quote:
Perhaps they could have clarified the data a bit better, but it appears that the way GSA presented the data is the biggest problem, not Fox. In fact, it appears that government building square footage increased by about 8% in just one year, parados, and that proves Fox had the general thrust of the news right, that the government was increasing their building space, not decreasing it.
It doesn't prove anything since you can't tell us which agency had the increases in square footage.
What difference should it make? Isn't the military part of the federal government? Or are you going to niggle about that too?
Quote:
In fact it only points out further lies by FOX to bring this up. You repeat the lies told by FOX as if they had some basis in fact. They don't. You are now making things up okie. Is that what a NEWS organization is supposed to do? Make things up?
Fox reported what GSA reported. Whats wrong with that? At least they reported it. What other news organization reported it? Name one of those other worthless organizations you think are so great.
Quote:
Which agencies increased square footage? Can you tell us it wasn't the military? If so, where are the facts?
I don't know, and what does it matter? They are all costing us money. If you want to talk details, we can do that, and so can Congress, but at least Fox brought an important issue to light, another probably broken promise by Obama.
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Jan, 2011 10:23 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:

The GSA never calls it 2 buildings. Your inability to read simple English doesn't make a building asset 2 buildings. It only shows you have an inability to read simple English.
Okay, call a "building" a "building asset," who cares? Frankly I don't see that much difference whether you keep two buildings or you move one building operation into another and probably double your cost. I am more interested in decreasing the bureaucracy and all of the useless stuff that government is doing.
parados
 
  0  
Reply Sun 2 Jan, 2011 10:34 pm
@okie,
Quote:
Fox reported what GSA reported. Whats wrong with that? At least they reported it. What other news organization reported it? Name one of those other worthless organizations you think are so great.

No, they didn't report what the GSA reported. The GSA never confused building assets with buildings. FOX clearly did NOT report what the GSA reported.

I can't find a single other new organization the reported the LIES FOX did. Why do you think the other news agencies didn't report lies?

Quote:
I don't know, and what does it matter? They are all costing us money. If you want to talk details, we can do that, and so can Congress, but at least Fox brought an important issue to light, another probably broken promise by Obama.
What issue did they bring to light okie? Other than they LIED about what really happened?
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  0  
Reply Sun 2 Jan, 2011 10:37 pm
@okie,
Quote:
Okay, call a "building" a "building asset," who cares?
Obviously you don't care about facts. We already know that, you don't have to confirm it.

But if you are arguing about the reduction of government spending then clearly you aren't reading anything other than the LIES FOX decided to tell you. Why didn't the FOX story talk about the reduction in energy use and costs? All the other news media seemed to report that. But FOX decided to only mistake building assets for buildings and then attack Obama with FOX's mistake.
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Jan, 2011 10:47 pm
@parados,
It was GSA that decided to count building assets instead of buildings, parados, not Fox. I did not read the report to see if there were any data showing that combining building assets into one building saved on utilities, but frankly I doubt the savings would be significant, if any, knowing how the government typically runs things inefficiently. For example, do you have data showing a reduction in government spending on their office space? I doubt it. Also, I think you are lying about Fox's reporting. They gave you the source, which was the government itself, which invented the term "building asset," not Fox.

If anecdotal evidence means anything or not, but it does to me. I frequent a town that recently moved the Forest Service and BLM into a bigger building, not a smaller one, and I would bet the utilities are higher too.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Jan, 2011 10:49 pm
@okie,
And your point for all this is?
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Jan, 2011 10:55 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
And your point for all this is?
Actually not a huge point, ci. I merely posted it because I found it interesting that the government was apparently not reducing its office and building occupancy. Immediately, liberals attacked me because they did not like my source, because they apparently consider Fox News to be almost the devil himself. Now, after all of this discussion, I think my point was cogent and pertinent, and that Fox reported a newsworthy item. I would love it if other so-called news organizations would actually do some work. What happened to any good investigative reporters? We still do not know who provided the forged documents to Dan Rather about Bush's National Guard Duty, in his effort to alter a federal election, do we? Don't you think that should be a worthy project, considering that altering a federal election is a federal crime?
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Sun 2 Jan, 2011 11:00 pm
@okie,
Nobody said FOX News is the devil, but there are examples of their many lies that misinformed the American people that we can decide whether they are the devil or not.

It's newsworthy to people like you who fail to do your own homework before parroting what FOX News tells you. I would personally be gun-shy of any media that lied so much. All you need to do is type "lies by FOX News" in Google, and you'll get the straight dope.

It's really a simple fact check; you should try it sometimes.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  0  
Reply Mon 3 Jan, 2011 08:19 am
@okie,
Quote:
It was GSA that decided to count building assets instead of buildings, parados, not Fox.

It was FOX that decided to use a report on building assets and change the meaning of the words with a complete disregard to the truth.

Quote:
Also, I think you are lying about Fox's reporting. They gave you the source, which was the government itself, which invented the term "building asset," not Fox.
But FOX decided to completely ignore that term and the meaning of the term and use the figures with a completely different term. When someone uses a figure from a table and gives it a different meaning than the table does they are either ignorant or a liar. FOX is a news organization and not supposed to be ignorant.

Quote:
If anecdotal evidence means anything or not, but it does to me. I frequent a town that recently moved the Forest Service and BLM into a bigger building, not a smaller one, and I would bet the utilities are higher too.
We know you prefer your made up anecdotal evidence to real facts okie. You tell us constantly about it.

Quote:
For example, do you have data showing a reduction in government spending on their office space? I doubt it.
I'm not a news organization reporting something that doesn't exist in the figures. That was FOX that did that okie but you are willing to defend FOX in spite of all the evidence to the contrary. You are willing to change the meaning of words and step outside reality. But then I don't think you actually spend much time in reality okie based on all the claims you make.

cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Mon 3 Jan, 2011 10:39 am
@parados,
okie believes that his expression of anecdotal evidence is "real" evidence that applies generally to the subject being discussed. okie has no concept of reality or logic. He spews his message as if his word is the word of god, and should not be questioned.

Laffer curve stuff.
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Jan, 2011 06:39 pm
Economist Robert Samuelson was on NPR's Talk of the Nation this afternoon. He was asked about Social Security. He, perhaps appropriately, linked it to Medicare and Medicaid, but eventually it got back to just SS.
The discussion that developed revolved around the notion that "Hey. I have been paying into this for 40 or 50 years. I deserve to get my money back when I retire."
His contention is that SS is a redistribution of wealth, going from current workers to retired ones. He claims that there is no legal contract requiring continued payments to us old folks at any set level.
If that is the case, SS can, if Congress agrees, cap benefits to the wealthiest.

I was driving while listening to this. The full audio is probably on NPR by now.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Jan, 2011 06:47 pm
@realjohnboy,
That's been common knowledge from before I retired in 1998; the social security "trust" fund is an imaginary fund that the feds use to balance their budgets. The current payments into social security funds the benefits for the current people who receive that benefit. Even financial pundits outside of government have been waving the red flag about the underfunded trust fund that will eventually require reduced benefits and/or higher taxes. Seems that congress and the president did the opposite beginning this year; they reduced payroll taxes for current workers in the hopes that it will revitalize our economy. That won't happen; most governments are still cutting workers and hours, and many are still in trouble with their mortgage payments. Banks still haven't acknowledged the lower asset values on their books, and now have the temerity to show "profits" when they play games with their financial statements.

It's a very long-term problem that will not go away with a few points of increase in consumer spending. Home sales are still dismal, and that's the industry that will make or break our economy. The trend for that just isn't in the cards.
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Jan, 2011 09:44 pm
@cicerone imposter,
For every year up until current Social Security has created a surplus every year. If, at a minimum, it was used to retire debt (or better, part invest - part, retire debt) we would be in great shape today. Unfortunately, it has been wasted for dumb things like, giving money to the wealthy and to wealthy corporations.
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Jan, 2011 09:52 pm
@realjohnboy,
realjohnboy wrote:
His contention is that SS is a redistribution of wealth, going from current workers to retired ones. He claims that there is no legal contract requiring continued payments to us old folks at any set level.
If that is the case, SS can, if Congress agrees, cap benefits to the wealthiest.
I have predicted for a long time that eventually the government would eventually run the program into the ground, so that they would end up "means testing" social security. It would no longer be a retirement insurance fund based upon the contributions by individuals, but instead to each according to their need (to receive benefits) and to each according to their ability (to pay in).
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Jan, 2011 10:11 pm
@BillW,
Yeah, we've heard enough times that the social security fund will pay benefits until about 2038 - or something like that! The big problem with that year is the simple fact that social security taxes are decreasing as more people lose their jobs, and the feds reduced payroll taxes beginning this year.

They really know how to gum up the works for the future of this country - that's if it lasts that long. All this while the baby-boomers begin to retire this year - and will increase according the the birth rate right after the war when the soldiers returned home from war. Lot'sa babies were born in the US.

Taken from the web:
Quote:
In the United States, approximately 79 million babies were born during the Baby Boom. Much of this cohort of nineteen years (1946-1964) grew up with Woodstock, the Vietnam War, and John F. Kennedy as president.
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Jan, 2011 10:46 pm
If anyone is interested, please go to npr.org. Click on programs and then Talk Of The Nation. Down on the left is a link to the 30 minute discussion with Samuelson re Social Security. Yes, it is long and I am not in agreement with some of what he or his guests advocate. But I did find it more useful than a 30 second soundbite from some politician or talk-show/journalist.
His dad, Paul, by the way was, I believe, the author of the Econ 101 textbook we met in college 40 years.
0 Replies
 
 

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