114
   

Where is the US economy headed?

 
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Dec, 2010 10:30 pm
@BillW,
There is more and more talk citing the bush tax cuts among the causes of the recession. It is time for a national reality check and this may be it.
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 04:16 am
@plainoldme,
POM, talking to yourself about Bush tax cuts does not equal "more and more talk". It's time you faced a personal reality check.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 04:41 am
Sweeping income tax cuts enacted under former President George W. Bush are to expire at the end of the year.
If Congress does not act, taxpayers at every income level would be hit with a significant tax increase sending the US economy into a tailspin.



0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 08:01 am



When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves
in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it. -- Frederic Bastiat
parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 08:08 am
@H2O MAN,
Tax cuts for the rich - the legal system to authorize it
The rich create jobs - moral code that justifies it.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 12:09 pm
Quote:

http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=20097&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=DPD
A Plan to Cut Spending and Balance the Federal Budget
Federal spending is soaring, and government debt is piling up at more than a trillion dollars a year. Official projections show rivers of red ink for years to come unless policymakers enact major budget reforms. Unless spending is cut, the United States is headed down the road to economic ruin, says Chris Edwards, director of tax policy studies at the Cato Institute.

Short of a full balanced budget plan, policymakers could put in place a debt stabilization plan.

Such a plan would cut spending to 21.5 percent of gross domestic product (GDP) by 2020, which would trim annual deficits to 3 percent of GDP.

With deficits at that level, federal debt would be at least stabilized as a share of the economy, and we would avoid a Greek-style debt crisis.

Official budget projections show that federal debt is exploding because spending is at abnormally high levels.

With the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts in place, and with continued relief from the alternative minimum tax, federal revenues are expected to rise to 18.5 percent of GDP by 2020, which is a little higher than average over recent decades.

By contrast, it is federal spending -- currently at 25 percent of GDP -- that is far above normal levels.

During the last two years of the Clinton administration a decade ago, federal spending was just 18 percent of GDP.

Some analysts claim that cutting government spending would hurt the economy, but that idea is based on faulty Keynesian theories. In fact, federal spending cuts would shift resources from often mismanaged and damaging government programs to the more productive private sector, thus increasing overall GDP, says Edwards.

Source: Chris Edwards, "A Plan to Cut Spending and Balance the Federal Budget," Cato Institute, November 2010.

0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 04:06 pm
Is there any interest in chatting about the BLS's Unemployment Numbers out today?
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 04:15 pm
@realjohnboy,
realjohnboy wrote:

Is there any interest in chatting about the BLS's Unemployment Numbers out today?


I'm really confused by them, seeing as I just read a report saying that retailers had hired 2-300 thousand workers for the holidays. Did the 'seasonal adjustments' go way overboard and just discount these people? Or what?

Cycloptichorn
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 04:21 pm
@realjohnboy,
Unemployment continues to be higher that PrezBO promised us it would go.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 04:25 pm
I found the following article of interest, to try to figure out how elimination of the tax cuts actually would affect real numbers. I quote one section of the link as an example of what all is in the website.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/03/AR2010120304580_2.html

"The tax debate is all about income tax rates. Wrong. For all the attention given to higher taxes on earned income if current rates expire, the big hit to some families will come from taxes on capital gains and dividends. The government now takes 15 percent of both. If the Bush cuts aren't renewed, the tax on long-term gains would rise to 20 percent."
okie
 
  0  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 04:29 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

realjohnboy wrote:

Is there any interest in chatting about the BLS's Unemployment Numbers out today?
I'm really confused by them, seeing as I just read a report saying that retailers had hired 2-300 thousand workers for the holidays. Did the 'seasonal adjustments' go way overboard and just discount these people? Or what?
Cycloptichorn
I think we need to remember the unemployment rate is determined from a phone poll, is it not? If I am right, this is not an exact science by any stretch of imagination. It is entirely possible that the rate could be too high or too low, as compared to reality.

Here is how it is done.
http://www.bls.gov/cps/cps_htgm.htm#where
"Because unemployment insurance records relate only to persons who have applied for such benefits, and since it is impractical to actually count every unemployed person each month, the Government conducts a monthly sample survey called the Current Population Survey (CPS) to measure the extent of unemployment in the country."
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 04:31 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

I found the following article of interest, to try to figure out how elimination of the tax cuts actually would affect real numbers. I quote one section of the link as an example of what all is in the website.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/03/AR2010120304580_2.html

"The tax debate is all about income tax rates. Wrong. For all the attention given to higher taxes on earned income if current rates expire, the big hit to some families will come from taxes on capital gains and dividends. The government now takes 15 percent of both. If the Bush cuts aren't renewed, the tax on long-term gains would rise to 20 percent."


GOOD!

'Some families' my ass. Try the Rich who make a huge percentage of their income from Cap gains. These tax cuts have cost the government BOATLOADS of cash and done nothing but increase the gap between the rich and the poor; they should be the first ones on the block.

Cycloptichorn

ps - you gonna address the fact that you were totally wrong about what Fasces meant? Or just try and skate by without ever admitting it?
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 04:32 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

realjohnboy wrote:

Is there any interest in chatting about the BLS's Unemployment Numbers out today?
I'm really confused by them, seeing as I just read a report saying that retailers had hired 2-300 thousand workers for the holidays. Did the 'seasonal adjustments' go way overboard and just discount these people? Or what?
Cycloptichorn
I think we need to remember the unemployment rate is determined from a phone poll, is it not? If I am right, this is not an exact science by any stretch of imagination. It is entirely possible that the rate could be too high or too low, as compared to reality.


They usually 'adjust' it later on as more and more data comes in. My guess is that the numbers will be adjusted somewhat.

Cycloptichorn
okie
 
  0  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 04:36 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
They usually 'adjust' it later on as more and more data comes in. My guess is that the numbers will be adjusted somewhat.
Cycloptichorn
Since this is based upon an actual survey, maybe we could substitute the word "fudge" for the word "adjust?" I guess I am wondering how you can "adjust" a statistic that is gathered via a phone poll?
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 04:38 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
They usually 'adjust' it later on as more and more data comes in. My guess is that the numbers will be adjusted somewhat.
Cycloptichorn
Since this is based upon an actual survey, maybe we could substitute the word "fudge" for the word "adjust?" I guess I am wondering how you can "adjust" a statistic that is gathered via a phone poll?


Well, Okie, the preliminary numbers are based on a phone poll. But actual employment DATA based on payroll taxes and other factors, combined with further polling, is then used the refine what actually HAPPENED during those months. That's how you adjust a statistic to get the official number.

Do you just think that nobody thinks about any of this stuff - at all? Except for you? That there are no plans or models for how these things are done?

Cycloptichorn
okie
 
  0  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 04:46 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
'Some families' my ass. Try the Rich who make a huge percentage of their income from Cap gains. These tax cuts have cost the government BOATLOADS of cash and done nothing but increase the gap between the rich and the poor; they should be the first ones on the block.

Cycloptichorn
Probably the rich or higher incomes benefit more, sure, but I happen to know one person that is quite elderly, past 80, that is living on a very limited income, that might be affected by this. In fact, she sold a house and invested the money into mutual funds, some of which when cashed in to help provide a small monthly check for her, they have long term capital gains associated with them. I am not real sure how it works, but to make a long story short, she lives on about 1,000 per month, cyclops, which comes from her mutual funds as well as a very small social security check, not exactly a cushy lifestyle.

Quote:
ps - you gonna address the fact that you were totally wrong about what Fasces meant? Or just try and skate by without ever admitting it?
I don't think so, because that is a legitimate meaning I pulled off the web. You can find other sites that words it a bit different, but not far different. Essentially, Fascism allows capitalism by permission of the State and for the benefit of the State, thats it, and it essentially ends up being a centrally planned economy, by virtue of how it is conducted. The entire concept of Fascism revolves around the State and Common Good, rather than the benefit going to individuals. Sorry, cyclops, but you are the one that needs to acknowledge the truth about this.
okie
 
  0  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 04:49 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Well, Okie, the preliminary numbers are based on a phone poll. But actual employment DATA based on payroll taxes and other factors, combined with further polling, is then used the refine what actually HAPPENED during those months. That's how you adjust a statistic to get the official number.

Do you just think that nobody thinks about any of this stuff - at all? Except for you? That there are no plans or models for how these things are done?
Cycloptichorn
One thing is for sure, you have far more confidence in the government's ability to calculate an accurate number than I do. Count me a skeptic, and when you start doing all of that adjusting, it only presents more opportunity for skewing a number. A poll is not very reliable, and it has a margin of error, but at least if it is gathered the same way every month, it would at least be done in a consistent manner, so that we could be comparing apples to apples instead of apples to oranges.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 04:50 pm
@okie,
Quote:
I don't think so, because that is a legitimate meaning I pulled off the web.


Bull ****. It is an unsourced opinion you found in an article written by some random guy. You can't point to any actual definition of Fasces, or a historical study of it, which supports your position. It has nothing to do with Collectivism, socialism or anything of the sort - which was the entire point of you bringing it up. You were totally incorrect. Do I really need to link to your actual words?

Quote:
You can find other sites that words it a bit different, but not far different.


Bullshit. You're just avoiding saying 'I'm wrong.' Just admit that you were wrong. Your claimed that the word Fasces, or the Fasces itself - you do know it's a real thing, right? - is a symbol of 'collectivism' or 'socialism.' That's totally false and you know it.

How do you account for the fact that the Fasces is all over US flags, the Senate flag, the National Guard emblem? You still haven't addressed this.

Cycloptichorn
okie
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 04:55 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Try Wikipedia for the term, Fascism, cyclops. Face it, it agrees with what I have said all along. Face the truth, cyclops. The truth is liberating.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

"Fascists believe that a nation is an organic community that requires strong leadership, singular collective identity, and the will and ability to commit violence and wage war in order to keep the nation strong.[15] They claim that culture is created by the collective national society and its state, that cultural ideas are what give individuals identity, and thus they reject individualism.[15] Viewing the nation as an integrated collective community, they see pluralism as a dysfunctional aspect of society, and justify a totalitarian state as a means to represent the nation in its entirety.["
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 04:57 pm
@okie,
Try wikipedia for the term Fasces, Okie. Can you please stay on topic? The topic under discussion is your erroneous proposition that the word 'Fasces' represents Collectivism or Socialism in any way. It does not.

I frankly don't give a **** about your boring 'Nazis=Leftists' argument and won't respond to any idiocy you post on that topic. I'm solely interested in getting you to man up and admit that what you posted was incorrect.

A while back, you chided Parados and praised me in a post for admitting that I was wrong. How do you know feel about your own behavior? Make yourself proud with this bullshit?

Cycloptichorn
 

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