Where is the US economy headed?

@okie,

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I have already pointed out the obvious to you with examples of vast stretches of ranch and farmland in the Great Plains, where probably very little money is spent protecting those assets by law enforcement, certainly very little in comparison to their size and value, and very little compared to the property tax their owners pay.

And then you turn around and prove how stupid you are again okie. You don't seem to know how law enforcement even works or how taxes are collected to pay for law enforcement.
Farmland isn't taxed the same as a house in the local town. Farmland doesn't pay city taxes. It pays county and state taxes. Low income areas in a city have city law enforcement. Farmland pays ZERO for that law enforcement.

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Similarly, as I previously pointed out, it is in lower income areas that tend to have more calls for police, such as domestic violence, etc. If you know anyone in law enforcement, I believe they could confirm this for you.

No, they would call you an idiot okie for even suggesting that city law enforcement is paid for by farmland.

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Here is the tax policy party differences in pictures.

Gross debt and public debt are different. Public debt is the gross debt minus intra-governmental obligations (such as the money that the government owes to the two Social Security Trust Funds, the Old-Age, Survivors, and Disability Insurance program, and the Social Security Disability Insurance program).[12]

The figure below shows the trend in public debt with the background colored by the party controlling the executive. The color of the trend line does not represent party affiliation; only the background does.

Time series of U.S. public debt overlaid with partisan affiliation of the White House. The upper graph shows the U.S. public debt in trillions of USD while the lower graph shows the U.S. public debt as a percentage of GDP. (Data are from the 2009 U.S. Budget.)

Which presidents raised taxes and which ones cut taxes? Which ones caused the debt to drastically rise?

AND

Take a look at the chart at the top of the following source page to see which presidents have lowered the debt / GDP:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_by_U.S._presidential_terms

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@parados,

parados wrote:

Quote:
I have already pointed out the obvious to you with examples of vast stretches of ranch and farmland in the Great Plains, where probably very little money is spent protecting those assets by law enforcement, certainly very little in comparison to their size and value, and very little compared to the property tax their owners pay.

And then you turn around and prove how stupid you are again okie. You don't seem to know how law enforcement even works or how taxes are collected to pay for law enforcement.
Farmland isn't taxed the same as a house in the local town. Farmland doesn't pay city taxes. It pays county and state taxes. Low income areas in a city have city law enforcement. Farmland pays ZERO for that law enforcement.

Again, I was exactly right. You are comparing apples and oranges. My example would have been properties in counties. In a city, the same principle would apply, low income areas may require far more law enforcement than higher income areas, because it is a commonly known fact that low income areas often have higher crime rates. Perhaps you are not aware of that, parados, so I would suggest you inform yourself a little more.

Quote:

Quote:
Similarly, as I previously pointed out, it is in lower income areas that tend to have more calls for police, such as domestic violence, etc. If you know anyone in law enforcement, I believe they could confirm this for you.
No, they would call you an idiot okie for even suggesting that city law enforcement is paid for by farmland.

It can be, parados. In fact, I know that to be the case in the county I am familiar with in Oklahoma. The county sheriff answers calls to areas most areas within the county, including low income areas such as mobile home communities or low income poorer housing areas in surrounding communities to the larger cities. Some of the little tiny towns where poor housing is located, they do not have sufficient town police, so that the county sheriff may answer or help answer those issues. I believe it is accurate to say that property taxes collected throughout the county, including farms, pays for the sheriff's law enforcement.
So it is you that is the idiot when you post some of your stuff. By the way, I know some of this from common sense knowledge of it, but I also know it because of a close relative working in law enforcement in the area I speak of, so I learn of some of the crime that goes on, and where it occurs. Actually, anybody can learn much of this by merely reading the local paper.

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There are at least 3 different ways of defining/calculating GDP vs the one that I learned in Econ many years ago when economies were less intertwined to the extent they are now. I would like to see the calculations of GDP compared. I am searching.
Meanwhile, proving that Econ students need something to research for their PHD theses, you can now find the Gross Domestic Happiness Index and the Happy Planet Index.

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@squinney,

squinney, You are wasting your time presenting facts; they ignore them completely.

They also refuse to understand trend lines; that the Great Recession GW Bush started fell into Obama's first two years of his presidency. They blame Obama for the increasing unemployment figures, because they used words like Messiah Obama to describe his presidency. They wanted miracles; they wanted to see Obama stop the increasing unemployment stopped immediately!

Never mind that it took GW Bush to destroy our (and the world's) economy in eight years.

What's the matter with the democrats? Can't they do anything right? That's what the voters said in the last election. They don't like where Obama and the democratic congress was taking this country.

Never mind that Obama and the congress approved extended unemployment and food stamps, and gave the middle class tax cuts. He stopped the bankruptcy of our banking system.

There is no economist worth his/her salt that will say it wasn't necessary to save our banks. Just a little common sense should tell us that without banks, all commerce stops.

What will the GOP deliver in the way of jobs and our deficit?

I am anxiously waiting for their miracle.

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@squinney,

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/62793
"(CNSNews.com) - Many leading Democrats in Washington these days like to point to the fact that the federal budget was balanced for part of the time that President Bill Clinton was in office. What they do not mention is that those balanced budgets occurred only when Republicans controlled both houses of Congress."

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@okie,

It is also when the GOP controlled congress when our deficit grew.
Your myopia is showing again.

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I perceive leftist liberals to be devoted to that which excuses their failures or mistakes in life, and/or excuses their hunger for acceptance by those like themselves.

Based on my prior direct observations, 1939 to 1945, today's leftist liberal behavior is primarily due to their psychology that is almost identical to that of most of the German people under Hitler and to most of the Germans here in America who joined the German American Bund prior to America's entry into WWII. They behave like people drenched in and devoted to repeated lies. They seem compelled to go along with what they perceive to be the prevailing wisdom of their leadership or fellow go-alongers rather than think for themselves and risk abuse by their leadership or their fellow go-alongers.

They resent those who disagree with them to such an extent that they appear psychologically compelled to repeatedly villify those who disagree with them. Such villification on their part clearly identifies them as psychologically incapable of objectively examining points of view different from their own.

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@okie,

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Again, I was exactly right. You are comparing apples and oranges. My example would have been properties in counties.

ROFLMAO.. And yet again you prove you know nothing about law enforcement on the county level in rural areas..

http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/as_cattle_rustling_increases_so_does_the_need_for.php

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The county sheriff answers calls to areas most areas within the county, including low income areas such as mobile home communities or low income poorer housing areas in surrounding communities to the larger cities.

And which specific areas would these be okie? And what evidence do you have that the majority of the sheriff's calls are to those specific areas?

Quote:

By the way, I know some of this from common sense knowledge of it, but I also know it because of a close relative working in law enforcement in the area I speak of, so I learn of some of the crime that goes on, and where it occurs. Actually, anybody can learn much of this by merely reading the local paper.

Yes okie.. and again.. local papers are often available online so which is the specific area you are referring to?

Who needs actual facts when you have common sense knowledge . You are a trip okie. A real trip.

Here is the data from one of the Oklahoma counties which supports the claim that MUCH of the crime is theft which certainly isn't going to be affecting those with nothing.

http://recordspedia.com/Oklahoma-Mccurtain-County-Crime-Types.png

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@okie,

Quote:

What they do not mention is that those balanced budgets occurred only when Republicans controlled both houses of Congress."

And what you fail to mention okie is those balanced budgets disappeared when the GOP controlled both houses of Congress and the White House.

Balanced budget with GOP controlling both houses of Congress and a Dem in the White House.
The next 6 years following with GOP controlling both houses of Congress and GOP in the White House we went back to deficits. What changed okie?

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If we want to talk about waste and abuse...

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WASHINGTON — New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie, who is raising his national political profile as a government cost-cutter, engaged in a pattern of abuse when he was U.S. attorney by billing taxpayers to stay at luxury hotels, the Justice Department's inspector general said in a report Monday.

The inspector general found that the Republican governor, who recently killed the construction of a new rail line to New York under the Hudson River, did not comply with federal travel regulations or provide acceptable justification for lodging costs that exceeded the government rate.

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@parados,

parados wrote:

Here is the data from one of the Oklahoma counties which supports the claim that MUCH of the crime is theft which certainly isn't going to be affecting those with nothing.

Good example to discuss, parados. Do you think stuff is only stolen from the rich? And are vehicles only stolen from the rich? And are rich people the only ones murdered, burglarized, assaulted, or raped? Do you actually think your data you posted in the pie chart actually supports your argument? I see no evidence whatsoever that it does at all.

I do think your cattle rustling link is a good one, however it also says that rural areas are poorly patrolled by law enforcement, which also supports my argument that law enforcement does not place much emphasis or money into rural areas, in proportion to their size.

By the way, I am not going to tell you which county my relative works in, primarily because it is none of your business and you have no need to know it.

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@okie,

To add to my above post, I only know of one vehicle stolen, and it was not from a rich person, it was from a young poor guy that happened to buy a newer pickup truck on time payments, that was a prime target of automobile thieves. In regard to being burglarized, I am familiar with only about one theft among all the people I know, and that was me soon after my wife and I were married and had purchased our first house. It was not in an upscale neighborhood, and we were not rich at all, in fact we hardly had any money at all at that point. The house we had bought back then had a price of 17,500, if that gives you an idea of how rich we were.

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@okie,

Quote:

I do think your cattle rustling link is a good one, however it also says that rural areas are poorly patrolled by law enforcement, which also supports my argument that law enforcement does not place much emphasis or money into rural areas, in proportion to their size.

Rural areas are poorly patrolled by law enforcement because the taxes from farms and ranches don't pay much for law enforcement. County taxes go mainly for roads.

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By the way, I am not going to tell you which county my relative works in, primarily because it is none of your business and you have no need to know it.

LOL.. Oh. so you can't give specifics because you don't have any. Glad we cleared that little piece of bull **** up.

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@parados,

Even his supposed "evidence" is without any wheels. LOL

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@okie,

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In regard to being burglarized, I am familiar with only about one theft among all the people I know, and that was me soon after my wife and I were married and had purchased our first house.

That would say to me, you don't know many people okie. (But then you aren't even sure if you have a black neighbor a couple of doors down.) Most people are victims of a crime at some point in their lives. Usually a petty theft of some kind. The 7 years I posted for the county in Oklahoma has almost 8000 crimes in a county of 33,000 people.

Last week when I attended a crime prevention meeting at our local police station about a third of the 40 people there raised their hands when asked who had ever been the victim of a crime.

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@parados,

parados wrote:

Last week when I attended a crime prevention meeting at our local police station about a third of the 40 people there raised their hands when asked who had ever been the victim of a crime.

Were all of those people that raised their hands rich people, parados? Also to get a good read on the percentage, how many of the 40 that attended are rich? And did you raise your hand?

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@Cycloptichorn,

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Let us say that in order to provide police, fire and other emergency services to a town, a certain amount of money is required per residence (in the form of property taxes) to maintain these services. Just for the sake of simplicity, let us say that it's $100 per residence for everything, all year.

Well, if you are rich and own 8 houses, the city is paying $800 a year in order to properly protect your investments. If you are middle class and own one house, the city pays $100 a year to protect your assets. The person who owns more assets, gets more protection dollars spent on their assets. How hard is this to understand?

Except that there is a flaw in your thinking here.
If the property tax is $100 per year per house, then the person that owns 8 houses is paying more in property taxes, thats 100% true.

However, that does not mean that the city is paying more to protect those 8 houses, then they are to protect the 1 house.
The cost of fire or police protection to the city is the same, no matter how many houses you own, unless all 8 houses burn down at once.

Just because you pay more in property taxes, that does not entitle you to extra protection.

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@Cycloptichorn,

So they are paying the lowest percentage, but they are still paying the vast majority of income taxes paid, according to the IRS.

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@okie,

Trying to avoid my question okie?

Does money have value?

I know one thing for certain. Those with more money had the opportunity to LOSE property that had a higher monetary value. I also know that having more to lose means you should pay more for that protection. My city feels that way as well. Property taxes are based values. Those with higher priced properties pay more in taxes so pay more for police protection.

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Where is the US economy headed?

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