Where is the US economy headed?

@okie,

okie, You have a funny way of looking at "our" reality; most of the growth in income have gone to the wealthiest, and you have the gall and temerity to say "quit your whinin." You are more stupid than anybody I know. All throughout the late 90's and early 2000, American productivity increased, but the average worker did not see the benefit of that productivity increase; most of it was "transferred" to the wealthiest. That problem was exacerbated from the early 2000's until now when most of the wealth was given to those already considered "wealthy."
Was that fair in your mind? Do you understand anything about fair play, ethics, or decency?

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Figures don't lie, but liars will figure, ci. You can use figures to prove almost anything. What I have to go on are the experiences of numerous friends and relatives, including myself, which numbers in the hundreds. Without fail, if a person does the right thing and works hard, that person will be successful, not necessarily rich, but usually comfortable or at least self supporting. I have a couple of shirt tail relatives that lived under bridges, but almost everyone that knew them said that they made conscious choices that led to that lifestyle, and in fact it seemed they almost preferred to live that way.

For myself, I started with nothing, but with hard work, including school, I have nothing to complain about, and I am comfortable enough to have a decent roof over my head and all the other amenities. The point is that I never inherited anything to help me along the way. I am not bragging, but simply making an observation that my experience is not out of the ordinary or special. I also know people in the trades, such as plumbers, electricians, tree trimmers, you name it, that are also comfortable, and some even perhaps wealthy by some peoples standards, simply because they were and are responsible people.

Conclusion, this country is not unfair, and the rich are not to be envied. And they already pay the vast majority of the taxes.

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@okie,

okie, You are an idiot; there are over 25 million Americans who do not have jobs. Many were hardworking, middle class, people who lost their jobs and homes. Much of the stim bill helped to keep a roof over their heads and to put food on their tables - and many of those were spouses and children by the extension of unemployment benefits and tax cuts. That's all part and parcel of what we Americans love to call "security." Our country must and should take care of our own before we spend billions on wars.

What has the Iraq war accomplished? That was supposed to cost $50 billion according to original estimates for that war. We spent hundreds of billions on that war, and we lost more troops there than we lost at the WTC.

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@Cycloptichorn,

I would think that a $20 pocket knive is a cheap knife and by that, I do not mean low in price.

Yes, cyclo, there are plenty of knives available that are made in America.

http://www.stillmadeinusa.com/tools.html

Knives and Outdoor Tools

Arc Flashlight (Phoenix, AZ): LED pocket flashlights that run on a single AAA battery. Small and easy to carry, but bright. Made in USA by Mega Tech Devices
Bark River Knives (Escanaba, MI): this family-owned business crafts knives and other cutting tools, with an amazing selection of blade styles and handles.
Bear & Son Cutlery (Jacksonville, AL): American-made hunting knives, camp axes and saws, pocket knives, and multi-tools
Benchmade (Oregon City, OR): manufacturer of folding and fixed blade knives for camping/outdoor use, as well as self defense and public safety applications. Several product classes (Red Class, HK, and NRA Outdoors) include imported product.
Buck Knives (Post Falls, ID): family-owned manufacturer of knives, including folding and pocket knives, for hunting, fishing and general use. All knives made in USA are noted with an American flag icon. (Check out the plant tour )
W.R. Case & Sons Cutlery (Bradford, PA): manufacturers of premium hand-crafted pocket knives, hunting, and fixed-blade knives since 1889. Available from XX Cutlery
Council Tool (Lake Waccamaw, NC): American-made striking, digging, and firefighting tools, including axes, mauls, mattocks and sledge hammers
DMT (Marlborough, MA): Diamond Machining Technology makes diamond sharpeners for kitchen, garden, and workshop tools. Diamond crystals bonded to a metal plate, will not break or chip. Available from My All-American Store
Estwing (Rockford, IL): camping axes, wood-splitters and geological tools. Available from Home Depot and Acehardware.com
Kershaw Knives (Tualatin, OR): utility knives made in their Oregon facility--look for "Made in USA" in product descriptions. (Other product categories mostly made in Japan and China.)
Leatherman (Portland, OR): knives, pruners, and multi-tools, made in USA from US and imported parts. Available from Cabela's , The Cutlery Shoppe , and LL Bean
LogRite Tools (Vernon, CT): aluminum-handled logging tools for use at sawmills, woodlots and construction sites. Tools include cant hooks, log peaveys, timber carriers, and hand saws, all made in USA.
MagLite (Ontario, CA): my favorite example of a product that integrates beautiful design and performance--the red MagLite flashlight. "Every Mag Instrument flashlight, no matter where in the world it ends up, comes from a factory located in the U.S.A. and staffed by American workers." Read more about the company's commitment to U.S. workers .
Ontario Knife Co. (Franklinville, NY): sporting/outdoor and survival knives and edged tools, available from Brigade Quartermasters
Pro Tool Industries (Pottstown, PA): utility knives and saws, plus Woodman's Pal land clearing tool--"Designed by Americans, made of American materials and crafted with 23 meticulous hand operations by Pennsylvania workers."
Randall Made Knives (Orlando, FL): hand-crafted knives for outdoor, hunting, saltwater, survival and military applications
(For additional outdoor gear listings, see Sporting Goods)

Then there are:

http://www.buckknives.com/

I was right about okie's knife being cheap. Buck's seem to start at $45 and go up from there.

Oh, but LLBean sells three that are priced at $15 each, but they are made by the Swiss Victorinox and the French Opinel. Bean's does offer a smallish Buck made knife for $24.

1 Reply

@okie,

Wow, so your friends are a better source of information than the Census Bureau?! Whodathunk it?

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@okie,

Quote:

Without fail, if a person does the right thing and works hard, that person will be successful, not necessarily rich, but usually comfortable or at least self supporting. . . For myself, I started with nothing, but with hard work, including school, I have nothing to complain about, and I am comfortable enough to have a decent roof over my head and all the other amenities.
Quote:

Gee, okie, you really resent having come from a farming family, don't you?

So, you started from nothing. Big deal. My father was a laborer. My mother was a stay-at-home housewife. Today, the wife of a laborer can not stay at home. That's the real world, okie.

So, you went to school. Big deal. So did I and always on scholarship, through three degrees, graduating with honors. When I was working on my last degree, one of my professors asked me to coach other students in writing.

So, you work hard. Big Deal. I teach four classes and work another job on the side. You couldn't maintain my schedule.

BTW, the teachers who can not keep their mouths shut about their politics are the righties. Always proselytizing. They sound more like evangelists than teachers.

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@plainoldme,

plainoldme wrote:

I was right about okie's knife being cheap. Buck's seem to start at $45 and go up from there.

Oh, but LLBean sells three that are priced at $15 each, but they are made by the Swiss Victorinox and the French Opinel. Bean's does offer a smallish Buck made knife for $24.

The knife I just bought recently was "Old Timer." Now, no snide remarks allowed, pom.

1 Reply

@okie,

And were I to ask that you refrain from snide remarks, you'd be on your high horse.

So, I am supposed to recognize your model or brand name? Really?

1 Reply

@plainoldme,

plainoldme wrote:

And were I to ask that you refrain from snide remarks, you'd be on your high horse.

So, I am supposed to recognize your model or brand name? Really?

He was trying to make a joke. Chill out.

Cycloptichorn

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@Cycloptichorn,

His jokes never land on their feet.

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@plainoldme,

Quote:

Today, the wife of a laborer can not stay at home.

That's been caused by women invading the work place.

And what you really mean is that she cannot stay at home if she is to get all the things she wants.

But hey pom--you got your personal PR puff in again as a genius who can't write for toffee and knows so little about economics as to make the remark quoted. I bet there are plenty of labourer's wives who stay at home. So the remark is not just economically incoherent but counter factual.

Quote:

BTW, the teachers who can not keep their mouths shut about their politics are the righties. Always proselytizing. They sound more like evangelists than teachers.

That's counter factual as well. The argument about teaching evolution in schools has shown many of them proseltytizing for the leftie position on the matter. And what about the NCSE and its supporters in media. wande has quoted hundreds of examples of lefties proselytizing. And I've read them all and they use the same sort of devious dialectic as you have done.

What on earth do they let you teach these students of your's? I hope it's nothing like those two quotes.

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@plainoldme,

Quote:

Today, the wife of a laborer can not stay at home.

That's been caused by women invading the work place.

And what you really mean is that she cannot stay at home if she is to get all the things she wants.

But hey pom--you got your personal PR puff in again as a genius who can't write for toffee and knows so little about economics as to make the remark quoted. I bet there are plenty of labourer's wives who stay at home. So the remark is not just economically incoherent but counter factual.

Quote:

BTW, the teachers who can not keep their mouths shut about their politics are the righties. Always proselytizing. They sound more like evangelists than teachers.

That's counter factual as well. The argument about teaching evolution in schools has shown many of them proseltytizing for the leftie position on the matter. And what about the NCSE and its supporters in media. wande has quoted hundreds of examples of lefties proselytizing. And I've read them all and they use the same sort of devious dialectic as you have done.

What on earth do they let you teach these students of your's? I hope it's nothing like those two quotes.

If a labour force expands wages go down. In extremis one might say that women working reduce their husbands wages to the point where it adds up to them working for nothing. The idea that if the woman goes out to work she can get enough to put on the best show in the neighbourhood is only useful when the other women are staying at home. Once they all go to work they can all put on the same show which is when refinements of aesthetic tastes becomes a battle ground. And that only works if the economy is delivering enough for them all to do it.

When the expansion is "artificial" it's geared. When the "artificial 'labour' " reaches criticality (can outvote the "real labour" force) anything might happen.

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THE 2010 INCOME TAXIS THAT WILL BE PAID BY A FAMILY OF FOUR:

Quote:

Schedule Y-1: Married filing jointly--DOLLARS ANNUAL TAXABLE INCOME

IF OVER..........BUT NOT OVER..........TAX IS.....PLUS TAX RATE..........OF AMOUNT OVER
$0......................16,750................0.00................10%................0
16,750................68,000................1,675.00................15%................16,750
68,000................137,300................9,362.50................25%................68,000
137,300..............209,250................26,687.50................28%................ 137,300
209,250..............373,650................46,833.50................33%................ 209,250
373,650..............~~~~~~~................101,085.50................35%................373,650

..........................PER PERSON................NUMBER PERSONS........... TOTAL
Standard Deduction.....$5,700..........................4..........................$22,800
Exemptions............... 3,650..........................4..........................14,600
Deduct' + Exemp's....................................................................$37,400

GROSS INCOME................37,400................50,000................100,000
TAXABLE INCOME.................0.00................12,600................62,600
INCOME TAX........................0.00................1,260.00................8,552.49
% TAX ON GROSS.....................0%.....................3%.....................9%

GROSS INCOME................1,000,000................10,000,000................ 100,000,000
TAXABLE INCOME................962,600................9,962,600................ 99,962,600
INCOME TAX..........................307,218................3,457,218................34,957,218
% TAX ON GROSS.....................31%.....................35%.....................35%

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@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

He was trying to make a joke. Chill out.

Cycloptichorn

I not only tried, I did, cyclops. I thought for sure she would make a remark about an "Old Timer" pocket knife fitting me well, or some such comment, perhaps about senility or whatever, but she didn't even catch it!!!

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@okie,

Wassamadda okie. Are you not up for going into bat against working mothers?

Is it too right-wing for you?

1 Reply

I said here a while back I would be noting what the markets do in response to the election. Sure, there are lots of factors that are affecting it, but it appears the election is at least not hurting the DOW. It was up over 200 points today and finished at 11,435, which I believe is the highest point it has been during Obama's tenure in office. We know that future outlook is a huge factor in the market, and if people are even just marginally more hopeful because of more conservative voices to arrive soon in Washington, that bodes well for future outlook and perhaps a market that might rebound more as political policy unfolds. It all depends upon whether Obama's policies are curtailed and more business friendly policies are adopted. It is at least worth watching. I definitely watch it in regard to my own assets.
http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=%5EDJI#chart1:symbol=^dji;range=2y;indicator=volume;charttype=line;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=off;source=undefined

2 Replies

@okie,

Dude, back in May the market was only about 100 points lower than it closed today. How does that fit into your theory?

There are a lot of dumb financial theories out there, but the idea that the markets respond positively to Republicans winning and negatively to Democrats winning is one of the dumbest of all of them.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@okie,

I was expecting that someone would attribute the rise in the Dow to the election results. I did not think you would be the naif.

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@spendius,

spendius wrote:

Wassamadda okie. Are you not up for going into bat against working mothers?
Is it too right-wing for you?

I don't get the big deal about the working mother issue. I frankly don't read and try to figure out everything pom says here. I know lots of working mothers, that is all fine if they can do it and not compromise too much of what is needed at home. I have at least one relative that works at the school where her kids attend, so it works out beautifully in terms of when she works and when she goes home. She started out volunteering, and it ended up being a full time job because they liked her work so well.

1 Reply

Of coarse the action by the feds to buy back $800 billion in bonds had absolutely nothing to do with the rise in the DOW; it was totally based on the election.

Anybody want to buy a bridge?

1 Reply

Where is the US economy headed?

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