Where is the US economy headed?

@cicerone imposter,

Charlie Cook of the Cook Political Report was commenting on the midterms the other day and whether the Republicans have a chance to retake the House. He said (paraphrasing) that there was good news and bad news for the R's. The bad news is people don't much like Republicans...borne out by the latest poll showing only 32% approval. The good news (for the R's), he said, is that the upcoming election is not about Republicans.

He estimates their pickup of seats to be in the 35 - 45 range.

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

okie, I scrolled back through about five pages, but couldn't find anything resembling your proof that pom's accusations are wrong.

Please enlighten me where and how you did it?

You apparently cannot read any better than pom. I have repeated this I don't know how many times, but I think you are referring to pom claiming I said that relatives of 9/11 victims should determine the perimeter of the area of any historical site that is created around Ground Zero. What I said was that they should be consulted, along with other authorities and people that have a stake in what happened there. I think I have also mentioned Homeland Security and perhaps the National Park Service.

I cannot believe the stupidity here on this forum, the lying and the inability to read with comprehension. In fact I am fed up with arguing with people like yourself and pom that cannot read accurately and constantly misrepresent what is said. ci, I think you are probably a nice guy, so I am sorry to be so blunt about how I feel, but it is truly disheartening to have to deal with incompetent debating from others.

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@okie,

Why should they be consulted? Zoning already approved the coat factory site, it's not on ground zero, and only bigots seem to be screaming bloody murder!

Is that why so many other communities around the country doesn't want a mosque in their neighborhood?

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@okie,

Quote:

I cannot believe the stupidity here

Right, and that coming from you the helmetless footballer.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Why should they be consulted? Because they suffered directly, thats why. Do you have any compassion? I pointed out a pretty good parallel with the Sand Creek Massacre, wherein descendants and members of the tribe that were directly affected, they were consulted and helped greatly with information and planning. Why, because it was the decent, honorable, and respectful thing to do. Do unto others as you would like them to do unto you.

As pertains to what I just said, I was recently visiting Camp Amache in Southeast Colorado, the Japanese World War II internment camp. While there, my wife and I talked with some very nice Japanese Americans that were also visiting. One said she lived in the area during the war, but was not sent there to that camp, and another man said he was in one like Camp Amache I think in California. Anyway, we had a nice conversation, and I think at least one of them said they belonged to a group that had been in on the preservation and planning for Camp Amache, as I think there will be further development of it, and it would not surprise me at all if it becomes a national historic site at some point. I stumbled onto it maybe 20 years ago or so when it was undeveloped, and have told quite a few people about it as a really interesting point of interest that was not much known. Since then, mostly I think immigrants, probably many illegal, had taken over some of the houses from time to time and have trashed the place to some extent.

1 Reply

@okie,

The so-called "consultation" goes nowhere, because it's already been settled by the city that the community center/mosque can be built there. What's to consult? It isn't ground zero where people "actually" lost loved ones.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Is this issue why Bloomberg is hitting lows in the polls, ci? Might be a possibility.
http://maristpoll.marist.edu/810-bloomberg-approval-rating-below-50-for-first-time-in-five-years/
8/10: Bloomberg Approval Rating Below 50% for First Time in Five Years

1 Reply

@okie,

okie, Your imagination is running away from your brain. What has his current rating have to do with ground zero?

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Easy question and answer, ci. It means public opinion is on the side of logical, reasonable, and common sense policy as I have tried to argue for here.

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@okie,

That's where you depart company.

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@talk72000,

I'm not certain about firebrands . . . there are far too many fireblands today . . . but I would love to see more Senators in the mold of the late great Phillip Hart, who represented my home state of Michigan.

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@okie,

Quote:

What I said was that they should be consulted, along with other authorities and people that have a stake in what happened there. I think I have also mentioned Homeland Security and perhaps the National Park Service.

What is the point of "consulting" these people and not following their advice? Do you think they have nothing better to do than participate in dead end activities?

You "think" you mentioned Homeland Security and "perhaps" the National Park Service? Why don't you remember your own posts? I remember mine.

Besides, I reposted your blather.

Look it up yourself. It is only a page or two back.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Besides, apparently, members of 911 families seem to be comfortable with the mosque although okie isn't. Wow, do you suppose those 911 widows and orphans should bow to okie's wishes?

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@talk72000,

What is this helmetless footballer meme? Did okie brag about playing football without a helmet? The huffing and puffing he does here, the bullying and the basic effeminacy of his online persona makes me envision him as a very small man, below average in height, with a comb over, who is also pigeon breasted.

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@okie,

Quote:

It means public opinion is on the side of logical, reasonable, and common sense policy as I have tried to argue for here.

How sad. There is nothing "logical, reasonable . . . [or] common sense-" filled in anything you write. In fact, to consult people without taking their advice is the direct opposite of common sense.

Argue? You have no idea how to argue. As the Monty Python gang said, "an argument is an intellectual process."

Public opinion is not on your side. You've been told repeatedly that you imagine it is.

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@plainoldme,

Alright, so the relevant matter is in the American Conservatism in 2008 and Beyond thread and not in this one.

On that thread, okie posted a map about the mosque matter . . . after he had already posted twice about the families being "consulted."

Tues., 24 July, post #4,327,859, okie wrote: " So sensible people see the building of the mosque on Ground Zero as an insult, which is what it is, cyclops, you should know it too. . .Face reality, cyclops, Islamic terrorists have a mission to destroy Western Civilization as we know it, and what better monument to their mission could be built right before our eyes than a large mosque smack dab on Ground Zero? Actually, I think the fact that they would propose the mosque there shows they have no respect for Americans and that they know exactly what they are doing, and that it also shows the proponents of the mosque have an emotional bond or sympathy with the terrorists and what they did."

Shortly thereafter, on the same day, post #4, 327, 887, okie wrote: "I oppose the mosque based upon zoning issues and my belief that the area now carries national significance as a historical site sacred to Americans. Therefore, any construction of whatever there must pass muster in terms of how it fits in with the national significance of the area. I believe my views are consistent with what most Americans would believe and think, and it has nothing to do with bigotry, it has to do with reality."

If you can make sense of his second sentence, than truly you can read better than I can! In his third sentence, okie suggests bigotry is not real! Rolling Eyes

A little later still on the same day, post # 4, 328, 423, okie made his famous pronouncement!!!!

"I don't know, but I think that should be debated between folks that have a stake in this historical site, including the relatives of those that died there, New York City officials, plus other agencies as well like maybe Homeland Security, etc."

So, cicerone and cyclops and walter and jtt and anyone else still paying attention to this prattle, when someone suggests that a class of persons should "debate" a matter, doesn't it follow that those same persons should be the decision makers, the arbitrators, the legislators who establish the rules.

Isn't that common sense?

I quoted his statement a few minutes later and commented:

Quote:

If you had a relative who died at the WTC site on 9/11, you would have proclaimed it. So, it sounds like you are about to absent yourself from the debate.

Oh, one of my relatives died at Auschwitz and was elevated on the road toward sainthood. I guess that makes me capable of debating the Final Solution.

This is part of okie's answer: "I can have an opinion that there could and perhaps should be a perimeter around Ground Zero that has special zoning regulations, but I don't claim to know what that perimeter should be exactly. I think that should be debated and determined by various authorities and interests involved. "

That last statement of his is the crux of the matter. Again, he states his opinion. He is always stating his opinion, never any facts, but . . . let me emphasis that last word, but . . .it should be "debated and determined."

In other words, okie did say that the authorities and those with interests should make the decision.

Who are those with interests but the 911 families? At least, that was his earlier reference.

Today, there was a news story that showed that the 911 family members disagreed with okie and welcome the mosque.

Frankly, I expected okie to stamp his little feet and to proclaim the 911 families communists or nazis or lefties! Laughing

1 Reply

@plainoldme,

pom, you must be some kind of nutcase. You claim I have said that families of 9/11 victims should determine the perimeter of the site, however your own quotes of what I said do not support that claim at all, in fact they exactly support what I have said that I said, which was that they should be consulted for their opinion along with all other appropriate authorities, people, and agencies, so that the local authorites can make reasonable and wise policy. You should be embarrassed so badly that you should knock off the nonsensical posts that you put here and give up, but no, never, you continue to make a fool of yourself, at least to people that can read with comprehension you have to look foolish.

So, you have accused me of lying when in fact it has been you. Any apologies forthcoming as I have repeatedly requested?

1 Reply

@okie,

You can not read well. Nothing more to say. Nor can you reason. Nor do you understand history or politics.

1 Reply

@plainoldme,

You are the one that cannot read well or reason cogently. Read the posts again, pom. If you cannot or will not understand any logic at all, I guess I will simply have to give up on you completely. It is a simple plain fact that you accused me of saying something I did not say, and you cannot prove it otherwise because you cannot quote me of saying something I did not say. Your own attempts already have illustrated that. And you have no honor to admit it, you simply continue to spew nonsense.

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Quote:

http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=19760&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=DPD
Cash-Poor Governments Ditching Public Hospitals
Faced with mounting debt and looming costs from the new federal health care law, many local governments are leaving the hospital business, shedding public facilities that can be the caregiver of last resort, says the Wall Street Journal.

More than a fifth of the nation's 5,000 hospitals are owned by governments and many are drowning in debt caused by rising health care costs, a spike in uninsured patients, cuts in Medicare and Medicaid and payments on construction bonds sold in fatter times. Because most public hospitals tend to be solo operations, they don't enjoy the economies of scale, or more generous insurance contracts, which bolster revenue at many larger nonprofit and for-profit systems.

Local officials also predict an expensive future as new requirements -- for technology, quality accounting and care coordination -- start under the overhaul, which became law in March.

Moody's Investors Service said in April that many standalone hospitals won't have the resources to invest in information technology or manage bundled payments well.
Many nonprofits have bad credit ratings and in a tight credit market cannot borrow money, either.
Meantime, the federal government is expected to cut aid to hospitals.
Sales and mergers of public hospitals are hard to quantify; the country had 16 fewer government-owned hospitals in 2008 than 2003, says the American Hospital Association, the result of sales, closings or transfers.

Health care consultants and financial analysts say the pace of all hospital sales is picking up at a rate not seen since the 1990s, the dawn of managed care. James Burgdorfer, a partner with investment banker Juniper Advisory LLC in Chicago, said most public systems would end in the next two decades because the industry has become too complex for local politicians. "By the nature of their small size, their independence and their political entanglements, they are poorly equipped to survive,'' says Burgdorfer.

Source: Suzanne Sataline, "Cash-Poor Governments Ditching Public Hospitals," Wall Street Journal, August 29, 2010.

For text:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703618504575459823259071294.html

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Where is the US economy headed?

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