114
   

Where is the US economy headed?

 
 
okie
 
  0  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2010 08:15 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

Right, just don't bother responding to the rest. You're a joke, Okie, and I'm not going to waste any more time talking to you for a while.

Cycloptichorn

Somehow I am not all that disappointed. Take your bat and leave, cyclops. Sorry but that is sort of what this reminds me of. You can't always have your way, so you lash out at the situation, start calling names, throw a little tantrum and go home.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2010 08:28 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

ican, Leftists like righties are made up of a combination of the two with no clear delineation from person to person. Nobody is a strict liberal or conservative. If you believe that, you're more ignorant than I suspect.

You begin with a stupid question, because you don't understand what goes on in elections; that's the reason why we have swings between the two parties on elections.

ican asks a very pertinent question, and it is clearly imperative that any politician be able to know what their beliefs are founded upon, a conservative one, or a liberal left one. Sure, there may be some individuals that are at various points on the scale, and some are kind of in the middle, but I believe it is better to be well grounded one way or the other, not wishy washy in every respect. I think Ronald Reagan was a pretty good example of somebody that was pretty conservative in almost every issue that he approached. George W. Bush, I think he was conservative on some issues, but a little bit more liberal on others. The reason I say he was a little more liberal in some respects was his "compassionate conservatism" which helped gender programs like "No Child Left Behind" and the "Prescription Drug Plan," which essentially expanded government at the federal level, which is not conservative.
ci, you are correct in that many people swing from one side to the other because they have mixed feelings and are not very idealogical in their political views at all, but I think often it stems from their lack of understanding political idealogies and therefore not understanding why they believe some things. For example, I know a man very well that lives conservatively and believes in many conservative principles, but he is not very informed about political issues and votes for candidates that end up doing the exact opposite of what he would do or believe. To make a long story short, he votes Democrat, primarily because his parents were Democrat and he just doesn't get it yet.

But back to the original point of ican, we should all be able to understand what defines left vs right, and we should be able to explain what we lean toward and why, with considerable detail as to why we believe as we do.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2010 09:34 pm
@okie,
Quote:
And a third one to refute what George was claiming:
I am on solid ground with this reply to George as well.


So, is 'solid ground' a synonym for rude?
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2010 09:37 pm
@okie,
This describes okie:
Quote:
"a person who stubbornly attempts to apply a theory without regard to practical difficulties"

0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2010 09:45 pm
@ican711nm,
Statism, as in crony capitalism?
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2010 09:52 pm
@ican711nm,
Quote:
I define LEFT WING as those policies and actions that increase statism toward dictatorship to a greater degree.


There are two problems with your post. The first is "I define," which means you are stating your opinion and your words have no relation to reality. There are no facts to back up this decision you made.

The second is I am unconvinced that you understand statism.
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2010 09:58 pm
@cicerone imposter,
For nearly a year, I had daily conversations with two men who both claimed to be left of center. Both disagreed with each other on many basic positions as well as on the character of several leading politicians. I would just hold the phone and listen. I never completely agreed with either one.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2010 10:05 pm
@plainoldme,
It's more like okie's on quicksand, and he doesn't realize it.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2010 11:21 am
@plainoldme,
plainoldme wrote:

Quote:
I define LEFT WING as those policies and actions that increase statism toward dictatorship to a greater degree.


There are two problems with your post. The first is "I define," which means you are stating your opinion and your words have no relation to reality. There are no facts to back up this decision you made.

The second is I am unconvinced that you understand statism.

Okay, what is left wing according to absolute fact? Your opinion is not allowed. You must provide absolute definition from an ultimate and final authority, whoever that is, you can let us know that too. I can't wait for the answer.

Also, tell us what "statism" is, along with what ultimate and final absolute authority or source you obtain it from. I can't wait for the answer to that either.

I am tired of wandering around in the confusion of my own opinions. I want pom to inform us as to the final authority of what is absolutely real and define for us some things like: "left," "right," and "statism." Bless us with more than that if you have the time from your busy and important schedule, pom, and provide the definitions of "right" and "conservative" also, if possible. And I also want to know the identity of that authority that gives you the absolute final answers to those real definitions.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2010 11:47 am
@okie,
okie, There is no "absolute fact" about left wing or right wing. You're missing some DNA in your noggin.
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2010 02:22 pm
Quote:
Taxes

Will "Tax The Rich" Save The Economy?
When the wealthy stop spending money, there are plenty of lower-income people who end up getting laid-off, says Pamela Villarreal, a senior policy analyst with the National Center for Policy Analysis...

CNNMONEY

Education Issues

What About the Margin?
Among those making $20,000 or less annually, 6 percent have master's degrees or higher, 14 percent have bachelor's degrees and 9 percent have associate's degrees, says George Leef, director of research for the John William Pope Center for Higher Education Policy...

THE POPE CENTER

Economic Issues

Film Flight: Lost Production And Its Economic Impact On California
California has lost 10,600 entertainment industry jobs, more than 25,000 related jobs, $2.4 billion in wages and $4.2 billion in total economic output since 1997 as film and TV production has moved to other states and countries, according to report...

MILKEN INSTITUTE

State and Local Issues

For Whom the Debt Bell Tolls
The story of Bell, Calif., is not just about unengaged residents, but about supposedly sophisticated investors whose indifference to a deeper problem -- untenable debt levels -- is even less excusable, says Nicole Gelinas, a contributing editor at the City Journal...

MANHATTAN INSTITUTE

Taxes

The Economic Case Against The Death Tax: Number Of Estates Paying Death Tax Not The Issue
The number of taxpayers that pay a particular tax is economically irrelevant. What matters is the impact the tax has on the economy, says tax analyst Curtis S. Dubay...

HERITAGE FOUNDATION

0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  2  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2010 03:06 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
ican's comments are in blue.
Cycloptichorn wrote:
I believe that superficial characteristics of all people, whether it be skin color, height, weight, gross strength, sexual orientation, creed or religion, should be no reason whatsoever not to give everyone the exact same rights, in both the letter of the law and the spirit.
I agree!

I believe that the strongest possible financial and social systems will be ones that encourage both competition AND cooperation. It is foolish to promote one over the other; both in equal part are necessary for success.
I agree!

I believe that the USA, and by extension, Us, are no more special or blessed in history's eyes than all the others who claimed they were special or blessed in history's eyes.
I think that those of us living in the USA are blessed to be living in the USA. However, I do not believe that sets us above any other human beings in the world with regard to deserving better opportunities for better lives.

I believe that only through technological advancement and the colonization of space does humanity stand a chance of surviving.
I agree!

I believe that Greed is a vice, not a virtue.
I believe the desire to morally and lawfully earn more is a virtue, and the desire to obtain more otherwise is a vice!

[I believe] we should all strive to be generous and helpful to others, not greedy and stingy.
I agree! I also believe we should strive for excellence in the achievement of all the moral and lawful objectives we seek to accomplish. I further believe we should strive to morally and lawfully earn the benefits we obtain!

I believe that things are going to keep getting better for everyone as society keeps progressing.
I disagree! Currently things are not getting better. They are deteriorating primarily because of the current huge increases in fed spending due to redistributions of morally and lawfully earned wealth to those who have not lawfully earned it!

I believe that most have not a clue just how much better things are, all around, than they were in the past. I believe the internet is an unbelievably powerful force of good that has yet to even begun to be recognized.
I agree!

I believe that the right thing to do politically is to elect Democrats, at this time; because they are slightly more in tune with the above beliefs than the Republicans of this time, and somewhat more likely to help see them accomplished.
I disagree, because I think too many of the currently elected Democrats and too many of the currently elected Republicans are out of touch with the above beliefs.
okie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2010 09:49 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

okie, There is no "absolute fact" about left wing or right wing. You're missing some DNA in your noggin.

I was being sarcastic, ci, did you not realize that? I was only taking what pom told us, that our opinions are not reality, implying there is a reality that is not somebodys opinion. Therefore, I asked pom to let us all in on that reality and tell us what left wing and right wing are. I see pom has still not responded to that request.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2010 09:58 pm
@okie,
How can we differentiate between your serious stuff and sarcasm. They look and smell the same.
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2010 10:43 pm
@ican711nm,
Color them as you will. No one cares. I refuse to read posts with colored type faces.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Fri 20 Aug, 2010 10:45 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Almost every person who has encountered okie has told him that his jokes/sarcasm fall flat. He hasn't enough intelligence to be funny. Furthermore, on the Conservatism thread, he got angry with me because I defended dys for writing satire and sarcasm. Dys is funny.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 21 Aug, 2010 08:47 am
Okie, your posts are well thought out and logically presented. Thanks!
ican711nm
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 21 Aug, 2010 10:43 am
@ican711nm,
For those who don't like posts containing color!

CYCL: I believe that superficial characteristics of all people, whether it be skin color, height, weight, gross strength, sexual orientation, creed or religion, should be no reason whatsoever not to give everyone the exact same rights, in both the letter of the law and the spirit.
ICAN: I agree!

CYCL: I believe that the strongest possible financial and social systems will be ones that encourage both competition AND cooperation. It is foolish to promote one over the other; both in equal part are necessary for success.
ICAN: I agree!

CYCL: I believe that the USA, and by extension, Us, are no more special or blessed in history's eyes than all the others who claimed they were special or blessed in history's eyes.
ICAN: I believe that those of us living in the USA are blessed to be living in the USA. However, I do not believe that sets us above any other human beings in the world with regard to deserving better opportunities for better lives.

CYCL: I believe that only through technological advancement and the colonization of space does humanity stand a chance of surviving.
ICAN: I agree!

CYCL: I believe that Greed is a vice, not a virtue.
ICAN: I believe the desire to morally and lawfully earn more is a virtue, and the desire to obtain more otherwise is a vice!

CYCL: [I believe] we should all strive to be generous and helpful to others, not greedy and stingy.
ICAN: I agree! I also believe we should strive for excellence in the achievement of all the moral and lawful objectives we seek to accomplish. I further believe we should strive to morally and lawfully earn the benefits we obtain!

CYCL: I believe that things are going to keep getting better for everyone as society keeps progressing.
ICAN: I disagree! Currently things are not getting better. They are deteriorating primarily because of the current huge increases in fed spending due to redistributions of morally and lawfully earned wealth to those who have not lawfully earned it!

CYCL: I believe that most have not a clue just how much better things are, all around, than they were in the past. I believe the internet is an unbelievably powerful force of good that has yet to even begun to be recognized.
ICAN: I agree!

CYCL: I believe that the right thing to do politically is to elect Democrats, at this time; because they are slightly more in tune with the above beliefs than the Republicans of this time, and somewhat more likely to help see them accomplished.
ICAN: I disagree, because I think too many of the currently elected Democrats and too many of the currently elected Republicans are out of touch with the above beliefs.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Sat 21 Aug, 2010 11:36 am
@ican711nm,
Two dummies in the same barrel comes out sour.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 21 Aug, 2010 12:52 pm
DO NOT FORGET! THE EXTREME LEFT ARE ABSOLUTE DICTATORS & THE EXTREME RIGHT ARE ABSOLUTE ANARCHISTS
communists <...> nazis <...> fascists <...> statists <...> populists <...> conservatives <...> anarchists
...........................................NUMBER OF CIVILIANS THEY MASS MURDERED
communists..........................................tens of millions
nazis ...................................................millions
fascists..................................................tens of thousands
statists.....................................................thousands
populists......................................................hundreds?
conservatives.................................................?
anarchists......................................................?

Quote:

http://www.mega.nu:8080/ampp/rummel/com.tab1.gif
TABLE 1 {a}
COMMUNIST DEMOCIDE
REGIME..................................YEARS..........DEMOCIDE.......ANNUAL RATE %
Afghanistan.............................1978-87............228,000................0.157
Albania....................................1944-87...........100,000................0.118
Angola.....................................1975-87............125,000................0.302
Bulgaria...................................1944-87...........222,000................0.062
Cambodia (Khmer Rouge).............1975-79........2,035,000................8.161
Cambodia (Samrin).....................1979-87...........230,000................0.398
China.......................................1949-87......35,236,000................0.120
Cuba........................................1959-87...............73,000..............0.028
Czechosolovakia........................1948-68...............65,000..............0.024
Ethiopia.....................................1974-87..............725,000.............0.162
Germany (East).........................1948-87...............70,000.............0.011
Grenada (Coup)........................1983-83....................106...............NA
Hungary....................................1948-87...............27,000..............0.007
Korea, North............................1948-87...........1,663,000.............0.250
Laos (PDR)...............................1975-87...............56,000..............0.124
Mongolia..................................1926-87..............100,000.............0.187
Mozambique.............................1975-87.............198,000..............0.123
Nicaragua (Sandinistas)................1979-87..............5,000..............0.020
Poland......................................1948-87...............22,000.............0.002
Rumania................................1948-87.............435,000.............0.055
USSR........................................1917-87..........61,911,000............0.422
Vietnam (Hanoi).......................1945-87...........1,670,000...........0.105
Yemen, South).........................1967-87..................1,000............0.002
Yugoslavia................................1944-87..........1,072,000............0.118
SUBTOTALS ................................1900-87.........106,267,000...........0.477 {b}
COMMUNIST GUERRILLAS..............1900-87............4,019,000...........0.477 NA
COMMUNIST TOTAL....................1900-87.........110,286,000...........0.477 {b}
WORLD TOTAL............................1900-87.........169,199,000...........0.235 {b}

{a} From R.J. Rummel, Death by Government Genocide and Mass Murder in the Twentieth Century, (Transaction Publishers, 1994)
{b} Average

0 Replies
 
 

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