114
   

Where is the US economy headed?

 
 
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Sun 25 Jul, 2010 05:03 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Laughing
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Sun 25 Jul, 2010 05:04 pm
@spendius,
People have predicted a new Rome for years.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Reply Sun 25 Jul, 2010 05:08 pm
@Thomas,
What you point out is why I have repeatedly pointed out that we as a nation or country must do a better job of competing in the global marketplace. We need to face the fact that we are part of the world's economy, and to compete, we must make some integral changes in our economic policies that will cause us to be more competitive. I have repeatedly pointed out that there are real reasons why most of the stuff in Walmart for example, is manufactured in China or someplace else.

Instead of addressing the symptoms of the problem, we need to instead address the real causes of the problem. Sorry to repeat myself, but some of the problems include our tax policies and regulatory and labor policies. Some of the stuff being done now, such as paying businesses to hire more people or lengthening unemployment benefits, are frankly silly, Thomas, and only serve to illustrate the fact that we now have an administration that is in way over their heads.
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Jul, 2010 06:50 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:
What you point out is why I have repeatedly pointed out that we as a nation or country must do a better job of competing in the global marketplace.

Two problems with that:

1. The rest of the global market place is in a recession, too---most of it anyway. More net exports for the US means less net exports for the rest of the planet, and the planet as a whole can't export itself out of this global recession.

2. US exports are 12% of US GDP. US imports are 17% of US GDP. Unlike a company, which sells virtually none of its production to its own employees, Americans as a nation will always sell the lion's share of its production to other Americans. "Competing in the global marketplace" is worth doing, but it's a side show in the overall story on getting out of this recession.
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Jul, 2010 07:23 pm
@Thomas,
Thomas, common sense tells me that if virtually everything in a store like Walmart is made somewhere other than America, something is very wrong with what we are doing. Competing much better in the global marketplace would help in many ways. It would not only lessen imports, and also increase exports, but it would create jobs. Jobs are perhaps much more important than the statistics of imports and exports, and jobs enables us to buy stuff from each other, both goods and services. I would look at it a bit like compounding interest, the benefit compounds as one positive triggers another positive. And increasing our manufacturing sector would create jobs where they are needed most, in a sector that would help shore up the opportunities for the less educated and less skilled. If you are low skilled and not educated, there are simply not enough jobs at places like MacDonalds, and those jobs are just not good enough to support people over the long term. We hear complaints that the gap between rich and poor is growing, and although Democrats blame it upon tax policy, I think there are many other more logical reasons for it, one being the manufacturing sector falling upon hard times, due to bad tax and regulatory policies in this country.

The real goal that we need to look at is the need to create more wealth, not simply consuming what we currently have. As we have seemed to move more toward a service economy, service is of course necessary but I look at it as an economic environment in and of itself as primarily trading existing wealth for service, not creating new wealth. As it is, I think sadly we are sort of bleeding ourselves to death economically, and we need to break out of the self destructive cycle that we are currently bogged down in. We need to once again start producing more of the goods or wealth that we are consuming.
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Jul, 2010 08:10 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:
Thomas, common sense tells me that if virtually everything in a store like Walmart is made somewhere other than America, something is very wrong with what we are doing. Competing much better in the global marketplace would help in many ways.

Easy enough. Just print enough money so the value of the dollar drops. That makes US exports cheaper for US businesses to sell, and foreign imports more expansive for US consumers to buy. It won't work as long as the current liquidity trap persists. But in principle, "competing in world markets" is a shallow problem, not a deep problem.
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Jul, 2010 08:16 pm
@Thomas,
Well, all I can say is I hope Obama does not hire you onto his economic team, Thomas. I think there are far more sound and logical solutions to the problem instead of a feel good fix to the symptom.
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Jul, 2010 09:10 pm
@okie,
If you say so, okie, it must surely be true.
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Jul, 2010 09:20 pm
@Thomas,
Good grief, Thomas, you end the conversation by saying "if you say so?" Your solution was to just print more money so the value of the dollar drops. thus making exports and imports more competitive, which strikes me as woefully simple minded approach for somebody professing to know something about economies. And you proclaimed that competing in the world market is a shallow problem, not a deep problem, to which I have to confess I think is a very dumb statement. Oh well, to each his own with their opinions, you have yours, I have mine, and perhaps that is why you seemed to be an Obama supporter and I am definitely not. I apologize if I am wrong about that. Have a good day.
parados
 
  2  
Reply Sun 25 Jul, 2010 09:32 pm
@okie,
Quote:
Good grief, Thomas, you end the conversation by saying "if you say so?" Your solution was to just print more money so the value of the dollar drops. thus making exports and imports more competitive, which strikes me as woefully simple minded approach for somebody professing to know something about economies.

Thomas' solution solved your problem okie. Perhaps the issue is not Thomas' solution but your attempt to define the problem.
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2010 09:30 am
@parados,
Thomas solution did not solve the problem. In fact, it is a great example of how government might identify a symptom as the problem and thus treat the symptom instead of the problem. One of the reasons we are not solving our problems politically, is precisely because we too often treat the symptoms instead of accurately identifying the problems and treating them.

Another good example of what I am talking about is Obama lengthening unemployment benefits and acting as if he is solving a problem. The problem is no jobs, not inadequate unemployment benefits.
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2010 09:34 am
@parados,
It seems okie failed to read Thomas' tone.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  0  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2010 09:35 am
@okie,
okie wrote:

Thomas solution did not solve the problem. In fact, it is a great example of how government might identify a symptom as the problem and thus treat the symptom instead of the problem. One of the reasons we are not solving our problems politically, is precisely because we too often treat the symptoms instead of accurately identifying the problems and treating them.


What about Thomas' solution doesn't solve your problem? Specifically.

Quote:
Another good example of what I am talking about is Obama lengthening unemployment benefits and acting as if he is solving a problem. The problem is no jobs, not inadequate unemployment benefits.


Um, those are both problems.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2010 09:38 am
With 'friends' (the oligarchs posing as populists) like these, who needs enemies?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brazdQANgYs
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  2  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2010 09:40 am
@okie,
okie wrote:
Good grief, Thomas, you end the conversation by saying "if you say so?" Your solution was to just print more money so the value of the dollar drops. thus making exports and imports more competitive, which strikes me as woefully simple minded approach for somebody professing to know something about economies.

It's called supply and demand, and it is indeed a simple concept. Want to increase the amount of US goods foreigners buy? Just reduce their price abroad. Want to decrease the amount of foreign goods US consumers buy? Just increase their price domestically. A dollar devaluation gets you both.

I'm surprised that a successful buisnessman would reject the concept of supply and demand so lightly. But then again, although you called my solution simple-minded, you didn't find a single specific thing that's wrong with it.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2010 09:44 am
@Thomas,
It's not a 'solution' to Okie, because you are also simultaneously devaluing the dollars in his bank account - something that he would never countenance, because fixing up the country's financial and manufacturing system isn't as important as him keeping as much money as possible.

Cycloptichorn
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2010 09:54 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
It's not a 'solution' to Okie, because you are also simultaneously devaluing the dollars in his bank account

Not if he spends them first, and not in the current economy, with inflation near zero. Besides, the dollar's exchange rate with foreign currrencies does not affect the prices Okie pays for US goods.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2010 10:11 am
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
It's not a 'solution' to Okie, because you are also simultaneously devaluing the dollars in his bank account

Not if he spends them first, and not in the current economy, with inflation near zero.


Well, inflation wouldn't remain near zero if we started printing more money, so I didn't take that into account.

Quote:
Besides, the dollar's exchange rate with foreign currrencies does not affect the prices Okie pays for US goods.


But it drives up the price he pays for foreign goods - something he could never support.

Cycloptichorn
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2010 10:37 am
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

okie wrote:
Good grief, Thomas, you end the conversation by saying "if you say so?" Your solution was to just print more money so the value of the dollar drops. thus making exports and imports more competitive, which strikes me as woefully simple minded approach for somebody professing to know something about economies.

It's called supply and demand, and it is indeed a simple concept. Want to increase the amount of US goods foreigners buy? Just reduce their price abroad. Want to decrease the amount of foreign goods US consumers buy? Just increase their price domestically. A dollar devaluation gets you both.

I'm surprised that a successful buisnessman would reject the concept of supply and demand so lightly. But then again, although you called my solution simple-minded, you didn't find a single specific thing that's wrong with it.

Thomas, you are dead wrong on me ignoring supply and demand. I am a strong believer in free markets, in which supply and demand are the principle drivers. That is precisely my point about what the problem is, we must figure out how to change our policies here so that we can become more competitive, essentially increasing demand for products made here, which includes selling better products at a lower price overseas, or stateside so that we can compete with imports. And you cannot simply wave a magic wand and lower the prices for our products without being able to lower production costs. I have already mentioned some potential fixes to the problem of our competitive ability, one being our tax policy, and another being our regulatory policies. That is one huge reason why I am a strong proponent of totally eliminating corporate or business income taxes here in this country, and replacing it with either exclusively personal income taxes or a national sales tax or consumption tax at the retail end of the economic cycle.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2010 10:46 am
@okie,
Your so-called solutions are not realistic; all developed countries impose corporate tax. Why should the US not tax corporations? Most corporations in the US do not pay corporate taxes.

There are always two sides to every issue including a) currency exchange rates, and b) value of exports/imports. It's probably because you have no understanding of comparative advantage, although you claim to understand supply and demand.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

The States Need Help - Discussion by Robert Gentel
Fiscal Cliff - Question by JPB
Let GM go Bankrupt - Discussion by Woiyo9
Sovereign debt - Question by JohnJD
 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.11 seconds on 02/01/2025 at 12:03:26