114
   

Where is the US economy headed?

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Dec, 2009 09:50 pm
@okie,
I'm sure okie's millions in that bank will be of most import for that bank, since he'll keep his money there.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Dec, 2009 09:51 pm
@hawkeye10,
My problem with the car company bailouts is why them only? Why not other factories and suppliers?
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Dec, 2009 09:57 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

My problem with the car company bailouts is why them only? Why not other factories and suppliers?

Payback to the labor unions for votes - the factories and suppliers survive because the auto companies have been bailed out.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Dec, 2009 08:04 am
Supporters of a VAT mistakenly assume that increasing government revenues will lead to reduced budget deficits.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Dec, 2009 08:34 am
The Community Organizer is swinging into action today.

Senate Democrats Invited to White House

What should Obama really say?

Ladies and gentlemen, I have called you here today to talk to you about the painful truth. The fact is that the American people are hurting right now, no thanks to our massive increase in government spending. Small businesses are hurting. Business owners are worried that we are going to increase their taxes. Can you blame them, based on rhetoric and wealth envy? I hate to tell you this, but our focus needs to shift. We need to work on bolstering our economy, rather than keeping our businesses and investors in fear. Therefore, I ask you to end this debate on healthcare. It was a great dream and scheme of a lot of us, but it is not practical for the current state of our country. The best thing that you could do for your constituents is end this charade and show them that you are serious about turning this economy around.

From: WHAT SHOULD OBAMA TELL DEMOCRATS TODAY?
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  2  
Reply Tue 15 Dec, 2009 10:00 am
Didnt the left say the war in Iraq was about oil and that the US was getting it?

Well, guess what?

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/283842

Quote:
European and Asian bidders were the big winners in this weekend’s auction of Iraq’s lucrative oil field auction while U.S. companies were left out in the cold.
According to a report in the Financial Times, European companies Royal Dutch Shell, Gazprom, and Lukoil, and Asian companies China’s CNPC and Malaysia’s Petronas were the big winners. This was the second auction of Iraq’s oil reserves, and reportedly the largest in history. The reserves auctioned off total more than the reserves of Mexico, the U.S. and the U.K. combined.
In June, at the first such auction, BP was the first western oil group to be allowed access to the Iraqi fields since the industry was nationalized in 1972.
Speaking before the Congressional Natural Gas Caucus in October, oil magnate T. Boone Pickens said the cost in lives and money entitled U.S. companies to some of the Iraqi crude.
“They’re opening them (oil fields) up to other companies all over the world. We’re entitled to it,” he said. “Heck, we even lost 5,000 of our people, 65,000 injured and a trillion, five hundred billion dollars. We leave there with the Chinese getting the oil.”
American companies won bids on just two of the 10 fields up for auction, surprising many observers.
“Iraq finally opened its doors after six years of war, and instead of U.S. companies, you have Asians and Europeans leading the way,” said Ruba Husari, editor of Iraq Oil Forum.
Analysts said concerns over security, particularly with the recent wave of coordinated bombings, may have kept American companies away.
okie
 
  2  
Reply Tue 15 Dec, 2009 10:09 am
@mysteryman,
Good post, and information, mm. And it appears also that the man in charge of this is under a cloud of suspicion of mismanagement or corruption, which makes it even worse.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124579553986643975.html

"But Mr. Shahristani, architect of the plan, is under attack from many quarters. Falling oil prices have triggered a budget crisis, and he is being blamed for not boosting production enough to make up the difference. Lawmakers and some oil officials, meanwhile, say the auction will give foreigners too much access to Iraq's resources. Mr. Shahristani also has been called to appear before parliament for questioning about alleged corruption and mismanagement at the ministry."
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  2  
Reply Tue 15 Dec, 2009 10:35 am
@Cycloptichorn,
ican's comments
Cycloptichorn wrote:
This post doesn't actually address any of my points - again. Why do you even bother?

I THINK YOU KNOW BETTER THAN THAT!

How do you explain the fact that, under Clinton, we had double - more than double - the growth that the Republican presidents had, WITH tax raises on the rich? Do you have any explanation at all for this?

Reagan's net reduction of the top tax rate was from from 70% to less than 39%. While Clinton"s net increase of the top tax rate was to less than 40%. Clinton's increases were minor compared to Reagan's decreases. So during Clinton's 8 years, the economy benefitted significantly because of Reagan's net tax rate decrease.

And, just to remind you, Reagan raised several taxes (other than income taxes) by a large amount during his term...

NO HE DIDN'T! Reagan increased the other taxes small amounts during his term.

Cycloptichorn wrote:
Reagan RAISED taxes, much more than he cut them, before employment began to rise. You ought to get your facts straight on this one.

Reagan's net reduction of the top tax rate was from from 70% to less than 39%. While Clinton's net increase of the top tax rate was to less than 40%. Clinton's increases were minor compared to Reagan's decreases. So during Clinton's 8 years, the economy benefitted significantly because of Reagan's net tax rate decrease.

Clinton RAISED taxes, and employment grew at a greater rate than we had seen in forever.

Reagan's net reduction of the top tax rate was from from 70% to less than 39%. While Clinton's net increase of the top tax rate was to less than 40%. Clinton's increases were minor compared to Reagan's decreases. So during Clinton's 8 years, the economy benefitted significantly because of Reagan's net tax rate decrease.

Bush 2 LOWERED taxes, and employment did not significant change.
Cyclo, this post of yours contains your usual misinformation. I doubt even you actually believe it to be true.

BUSH 2's EIGHT YEARS EMPLOYMENT INCREASED BY MORE THAN 8 MILLION JOBS.

But during Obama's FIRST 8 MONTHS employment decreased BY MORE THAN 7 MILLION JOBS

FOR YOUR CONVENIENCE I AGAIN POST:
Quote:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2051527/posts
Partial History of U.S. Federal Income Tax Rates
Highest and lowest Income Tax Rates 1913 to 2007
...
1971-1981: minimum = 14%; maximum = 70% [CARTER 1977-1981]

1982-1986: minimum = 11%; maximum = 50% [REAGAN 1981-1989]

1987-1987: minimum = 11%; maximum = 38.5%

1988-1990: minimum = 15%; maximum = 33% [BUSH 41 1989-1993]

1991-1992: minimum = 15%; maximum = 31%

1993-2000: minimum = 15%; maximum = 39.6% [CLINTON 1993-2001]

2001- 2001: minimum = 15%; maximum = 39.1%

2002-2002: minimum = 10%; maximum = 38.6% [BUSH 43 2001-2009]

2003-2009: minimum = 10%; maximum = 35%

Quote:

ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/suppl/empsit.cpseea1.txt
HISTORY OF TOTAL USA EMPLOYMENT 1980 - 2009

....Total USA Employed.....Change
Carter
1980…… 99,302,000………….. + 7,285,000
Reagan
1984….. 105,005,000…………...+ 5,703,000
Reagan
1988….. 114,968,000…………...+ 9,963,000
Bush I
1992….. 118,492,000…………...+ 3,524,000
Clinton
1996….. 126,708,000…………...+ 8,216,000
Clinton
2000….. 136,891,000…………...+ 10,183,000
Bush II
2004….. 139,252,000…………...+ 2,361,000
Bush II
2008….. 145,362,000…………...+ 6,110,000
Obama
As of October 2009 ....138,275,000.........- 7,087,000
Cycloptichorn
 
  0  
Reply Tue 15 Dec, 2009 10:42 am
@ican711nm,
Quote:

Reagan's net reduction of the top tax rate was from from 70% to less than 39%. While Clinton net increase of the top tax rate was to less than 40%. Clinton's increases were minor compared to Reagan's decreases. So during Clinton's 8 years, the economy benefitted significantly because of Reagan's net tax rate decrease.


This is bullshit, by the way. The job gains in Clinton's era were not due to Reagan's tax cuts a decade before, and you have no data whatsoever showing this is true.

What an idiotic thing to say... you are simply making **** up right now.

Tell ya what. If it's the lower tax rate of Reagan's that really pushed growth, then let's go back to that tax rate that Clinton had - we'll still see massive growth according to your (limited, idiotic) understanding of taxation.

Cycloptichorn

PS, you are wrong about Reagan; he signed the biggest peacetime tax expansion in history.

Quote:
Peter Wallison, who was White House counsel to President Reagan, responded to my analysis in the New York Times on October 26. He pointed to Ronald Reagan's resistance to tax increases in 1982, citing passages from Reagan's diary that were published in his autobiography, An American Life. The gist of Wallison's article is that Ronald Reagan successfully resisted efforts by his staff and many in Congress to raise taxes, thereby ensuring the victory of Reaganomics.

The only problem with this analysis is that it is historically inaccurate. Reagan may have resisted calls for tax increases, but he ultimately supported them. In 1982 alone, he signed into law not one but two major tax increases. The Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act (TEFRA) raised taxes by $37.5 billion per year and the Highway Revenue Act raised the gasoline tax by another $3.3 billion.

According to a recent Treasury Department study, TEFRA alone raised taxes by almost 1 percent of the gross domestic product, making it the largest peacetime tax increase in American history. An increase of similar magnitude today would raise more than $100 billion per year.

In 1983, Reagan signed legislation raising the Social Security tax rate. This is a tax increase that lives with us still, since it initiated automatic increases in the taxable wage base. As a consequence, those with moderately high earnings see their payroll taxes rise every single year.

In 1984, Reagan signed another big tax increase in the Deficit Reduction Act. This raised taxes by $18 billion per year or 0.4 percent of GDP. A similar-sized tax increase today would be about $44 billion.

The Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1985 raised taxes yet again. Even the Tax Reform Act of 1986, which was designed to be revenue-neutral, contained a net tax increase in its first 2 years. And the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1987 raised taxes still more.

The year 1988 appears to be the only year of the Reagan presidency, other than the first, in which taxes were not raised legislatively. Of course, previous tax increases remained in effect. According to a table in the 1990 budget, the net effect of all these tax increases was to raise taxes by $164 billion in 1992, or 2.6 percent of GDP. This is equivalent to almost $300 billion in today's economy.


http://www.nationalreview.com/nrof_bartlett/bartlett200310290853.asp

So please don't give me that bullshit about Reagan not raising taxes, he most certainly did.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Dec, 2009 11:22 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Conservatives can only stretch their imagination to give credit to the Reagan tax cuts. Imagination that runs all across the Pacific Ocean.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Dec, 2009 01:53 pm
http://www.heritage.org/research/taxes/bg1414.cfm

http://www.heritage.org/Research/GovernmentReform/images/bg1414tab1.gif
http://www.heritage.org/Research/GovernmentReform/images/bg1414tab1.gif

Quote:

http://www.whatwouldronaldreagando.com/webpages/karlmarx.htm
10th Amendment: The powers not delegated to the
United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the
States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Karl Marx Utopia: America?
Is America the Communist Paradise?

Karl Marx a founder of the failed communist concept described 10 planks or ideas in his book The Communist Manifesto that were required for a state to be classified as Communist. In his Communist state the ten steps destroy free enterprise and replace it with a system of omnipotent government power.

Liberal often say Americans must "pay their fair share", but where in the Constitution do the words fair share arise? They don't, the concept of a person paying their fair share come from a Communist saying. The following are his ten steps and how they are currently enforced in America.

Abolition of private property and the application of all rents of land to public purposes
Current Supreme Court rulings on pre-eminent domain allow the government to take private lands any time they wish (A local government is taking a private golf course and making in public)

A heavy progressive or graduated income tax system
Known in America as the 16th Amendment or Federal Income Tax, Social Security Tax, the various other taxes

Abolition of all rights of inheritance
Federal & State Estate Tax

Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels
In America its called government seizures, tax liens, the IRS, DEA, ATF, etc. confiscating propetry without due process


Centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly
The Federal Reserve is a privately controlled credit & debt organization that regulates all national banks

Centralization of the means of communications and transportation in the hands of the State
Federal Communications Commission (FCC) and Department of Transportation are federally mandated to regulate communications, roads, rails, and air travel

Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state, the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan
The Department of Agriculture controls and subsidizes what, when, and how much farmers can produce; The EPA, Bureau of Mines, Land Management, and Reclamation, and Department of Interior regulate the use of land

Equal liability of all to labor. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture
The Minimum Wage stop market forces from working and Illegal Immigration advocates seek to maintain a permanent underclass to work undesirable jobs

Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries, gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equitable distribution of population over the country
Planning Reorganization act of 1949 , zoning (Title 17 1910-1990) and Super Corporate Farms, as well as Executive orders 11647, 11731 (ten regions) and Public "law" 89-136. These programs force relocation and force sterilization programs, like in China

Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production
The public school system is a forced tax to fund school no matter the quality of the school your children are forced to attend. The Department of Education increased government intervention even more.


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_otfwl2zc6Qc/RhqI368z6qI/AAAAAAAABE8/v1O2-m6Tbfc/s1600-h/corptax.bmp
GRAPH OF US CORPORATE TAXES
Reagan reduced corporate income taxes
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  2  
Reply Tue 15 Dec, 2009 02:13 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
... The job gains in Clinton's era were not due to Reagan's tax cuts a decade before, and you have no data whatsoever showing this is true. ...

I refuse to believe you are really that stupid! You know damn well that:
If the net reduction in maximum tax rates on income is from 70% to 40%, and at least the new net tax rate is maintained for say 20 years, then any increased growth of employment within that period is logically attributed to the original tax cut.

Had Clinton raised the maximum tax rate back to 70% from 40% in 1993, you know damn well total employment would have been reduced from that point on.

But by all means continue to enjoy yourself with your coveter-alias-Democrat-alias-liberal-alias-progressive fantasies.
Cycloptichorn
 
  0  
Reply Tue 15 Dec, 2009 02:17 pm
@ican711nm,
Quote:
If the net reduction in maximum tax rates on income is from 70% to 40%, and at least the new net tax rate is maintained for say 20 years, then any increased growth of employment within that period is logically attributed to the original tax cut.


TOTALLY WRONG


You are assuming that tax cuts directly relate to employment levels, when in fact no such information exists at all. This is a glaring error on your part.

You're a mental midget when it comes to economics, Ican. Seriously. Completely wrong on pretty much every front.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Dec, 2009 02:30 pm
@ican711nm,
ican711nm wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
... The job gains in Clinton's era were not due to Reagan's tax cuts a decade before, and you have no data whatsoever showing this is true. ...

I refuse to believe you are really that stupid!


Believe it.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Dec, 2009 02:37 pm
@H2O MAN,
Believe what? That you're just as stupid as ican?

Yeah, I truly believe that. You haven't provided any evidence for your claim that lower taxes increases employment.

Show us?
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Dec, 2009 02:44 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Can you prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that increased taxes and
increased federal spending has ever lead to an increase in private sector jobs?

If you are unable to provide proof, try and explain the theory behind
increased taxes and spending helping anyone but those in government.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Dec, 2009 02:47 pm
@H2O MAN,
Who's talking about federal spending? Your claim is that reduced taxes increases employment. Where is your proof for this claim?

I have you on Ignore, but you are one of those stupid people on a2k who continues to say something without any proof, and asks stupid questions to boot.

Now, show us proof for your claim?
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Dec, 2009 02:54 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Your claim is that reduced taxes increases employment.


The claim is valid, but when did I make that claim?

Also, if you are unable to figure out how lower taxes make it easier for an employer to hire
more employees we really need to take a few steps backwards and help you get up to speed.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Dec, 2009 03:06 pm
@H2O MAN,
You are stupid! Most corporations in America do not pay taxes; some estimates (by the government) makes that about 6o%.

Bush reduced taxes. Do you know what happened? The unemployment numbers increased!

Show us evidence/proof that reduced taxes creates jobs?
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Dec, 2009 03:36 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I can count on you for a laugh at least once a day.

Sucks to be you though...
0 Replies
 
 

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