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Where is the US economy headed?

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Apr, 2009 04:34 pm
@Advocate,
Between borsht and shishkabob, I prefer shishkabob. Who knows, it might be chow mein and sweet and sour pork.
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Apr, 2009 04:53 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Pork? You would eat pork with this Swine Flu thing going around? I note that our government and the WHO are going to calling this something like the 1A1s virus, simply because the pig industry is (heh, heh) getting slaughtered by the notion that the flu is getting spread by eating pork. I noticed that even NPR, while reporting that the spread is caused by contact with a human who is infected, still refers to it as Swine Flu.
I note also, on the A2K New Topics thingee, that this whole Swine Fl...I mean 1A1s thing, is nothing more than a massive conspiracy by "OBoy" to distract attention from the economic mess he has managed to get us into in a mere 100 days.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Apr, 2009 05:07 pm
Obama said he would "save or create 3 million jobs".

Has anyone yet determined HOW he is going to save a job?
What are the criteria to have a job "saved" by him?
How will anyone know if Obama "saved" a job or not?

If I am working next year, did Obama "save" my job?
If I'm not, could we then say that he cost me my job?

After all, if he wants the credit he has to accept the blame, doesnt he?
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Apr, 2009 05:10 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Agreed, but I like couscous, so if I get to eat more of it thats fine with me.

As for borscht, I have never been a big fan of cabbage,but I do like kimchee.
Hows that for a contradiction.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Apr, 2009 05:41 pm
@mysteryman,
We eat kimchee regularly because we always have a bottle of it at home, and we eat out at Korean restaurants regularly. My wife watches Korean shows almost daily, and I always ask if she now speaks Korean. I've started to study the language; the alphabet created by one of their kings is a masterful, ingenious, creation. My brain has difficulty retaining that stuff at my age, but I keep trying.
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Apr, 2009 05:54 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I tried learning it when I was stationed in Korea, but I could never get my brain around it.

I did however learn enough to get my face slapped.
And I often did.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Apr, 2009 06:29 pm
@mysteryman,
That figures. LOL
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2009 01:58 pm
BOUGHT AND PAID FOR. The faces and names may be different but nothing ever changes changeshttp://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/30/business/30uaw.html?ref=todayspaper
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2009 02:37 pm
@au1929,
The link won't work the way you have it Au.....here it is fixed:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/30/business/30uaw.html?ref=todayspaper

While many employee-owned companies have shown great success, I have far less confidence that either the government or unions owning big business will see such businesses thrive.

I do see a real danger in government becoming a bigger and bigger shareholder in what was American private industry and in competition with private industry. I can't find any reason to think that is a good thing.

I also wonder why, if Chrysler filing Chapter 11 today is the only hope for Chrysler to dig itself out of the hole it dug for itself, why was the government bailout necessary? It appears that GM will follow suit.

Doesn't it make sense that in the end, allowing the normal consequences of bad management or poor business decisions to run their natural course is the best way to go? Look how much of the taxpayer money could have been saved and how many thousands of people would not now be under a government thumb.
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2009 05:12 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:
NY Times article...


While many employee-owned companies have shown great success, I have far less confidence that either the government or unions owning big business will see such businesses thrive.

RJB: No problem with that paragraph.

I do see a real danger in government becoming a bigger and bigger shareholder in what was American private industry and in competition with private industry. I can't find any reason to think that is a good thing.

RJB: If it is anything other then temporary, I would agree. See comments below.

I also wonder why, if Chrysler filing Chapter 11 today is the only hope for Chrysler to dig itself out of the hole it dug for itself, why was the government bailout necessary? It appears that GM will follow suit.

RJB:: The bankruptcy filing became necessary because a few folks, holding something like $2B in loans, thought they could hold the entire, complicated deal up and get a sweeter deal.

Doesn't it make sense that in the end, allowing the normal consequences of bad management or poor business decisions to run their natural course is the best way to go? Look how much of the taxpayer money could have been saved and how many thousands of people would not now be under a government thumb.

RJB: I am okay with the thought there, until I got to the part about "people...now be(ing) under a government thumb." That gets pretty close to the conspiracy theory about the evil government intending to nationalize all of the banks and then looking into your bank account to see what movies you rented from Netflix, or whatever it is called.
We have talked about most of this before, so I will be brief. When the books start to come out, I have no doubt that the conclusion will be that there was a period (during the end of the Bush administration and the start of the Obama one), where the worldwide banking system came amazingly close to totally freezing up. The world economy is still bad and it will take years to recover from this , particularly for the 3rd world countries.
I cant fault Mr Bush or Mr Obama and the other world leaders. Doing nothing; letting the market sort it out, would have lead to, in my opinion, total economic chaos.
As always, I apologize for a too long post. -RJB-

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2009 05:16 pm
@realjohnboy,
rjb, You have it spot on! Without banks operating in our economy, everything that has to do with our economy will freeze up and die. No economy can exist without credit in today's world. None.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2009 05:29 pm
@realjohnboy,
Geez RJB, if you apologize for a post no longer than that, there's a whole bunch of us who are certainly going straight to hell. Smile

The employees 'under the government thumb' metaphor wasn't really clear but it was intended to illustrate still more government employees which I don't see as a good thing. The only significant job growth we have seen out of three months of stimulus is a giant growth in government work force--virtually every other sector has lost jobs. I don't have much confidence that the government will be able to run a business profitably and that could easily leave we the taxpayers paying all those additional government salaries.

And one point I made that you didn't address was my distaste for government competing with the private sector.

I certainly had no problem with President Bush and President Obama and the Congress being proactive in the financial crisis though I think they might have headed it off if Congress had been willing to acknowledge the warning bells when they were first sounded in a major way. But okay, it didn't so by late 2008 they had to deal with the problem. I could see any number of ways that could have been done far more effectively and economically and fiscally responsibly than the way it was done. And, according to a local banker friend, credit has eased some in recent weeks but only marginally and that marginal improvement had little or nothing to do with the bailout.

I'm a small, limited, efficient government and free market person though, and I'll admit that I am pessimistic when it comes to anything outside of its Constitutionally mandated responsibilities that government presumes to do for us that requires our money to do it.

0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2009 05:30 pm
On a lighter note...
WE BLEW IT ALL ON A PIZZA!
A day or two ago the latest Consumer Confidence Index came out and it was amazingly positive which surprised many folks here.
Today, the last day of April, we hit a button on the computer at around 3 pm and up popped our sales for my little chain of retail stores with 3 hours to go. Up 6% over April, 2008. That follows 6 months of current year/previous year declines.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2009 05:38 pm
@realjohnboy,
Up 6%? Wow, rjb, good show! That means your employees will continue to have jobs; we need businesses like yours to keep our folks working and earning an income.

We're all hoping that the job loss trend is now close to bottoming out, and we'll begin to see some stability in our economy. That's our only hope going forward.
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roger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2009 06:00 pm
@realjohnboy,
So glad to hear that. Would you consider running General Motors for a couple of years?
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roger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2009 06:09 pm
@realjohnboy,
realjohnboy wrote:

RJB:: The bankruptcy filing became necessary because a few folks, holding something like $2B in loans, thought they could hold the entire, complicated deal up and get a sweeter deal.


Had I lent somebody a couple of billion, I would gladly trade it in for a bunch of worthless stock. Suurre I would.

RJB's getting dangerous, now that he's got the quote function down. Next thing you know, we'll be getting links and colored fonts.
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2009 06:40 pm
@roger,
Yall should start trembling, Roger. I authorized my employees to replace a couple of very, very old computers. Andy did it and took the liberty to order for me a laptop. When he gets back in mid-May from touring with his band, I will learn how to post music to Letty and Rockhead's music threads. And I will learn how to overwhelm yall here with stats from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Yall are doomed. Doomed.
Tak, we do about $1.5M in sales. Tomorrow I will study the numbers to try to figure out how we ended up with a 6% increase. Then I will talk to the managers and then to EACH of my 18 employees. I will learn more from those grunts on the ground than I will from looking at the numbers on a computer printout.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2009 06:51 pm
@realjohnboy,
I totally agree with your management style. Some people never learn this very important lesson in management.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 May, 2009 08:18 pm
I'm going to disagree with these two bank executives:

From Yahoo News:
Quote:
Two top Fed officials see recession ending this year
By Kristina Cooke Kristina Cooke Mon May 4, 6:19 pm ET

NEW YORK (Reuters) " The U.S. recession will likely end this year and policymakers must be ready to act quickly to ensure inflation does not take hold when the economy recovers, two top Federal Reserve officials said on Monday.

Richmond Federal Reserve President Jeffrey Lacker and Kansas City Federal Reserve President Thomas Hoenig offered slightly different views on when the world's biggest economy will begin to grow again.

Lacker, speaking to business leaders in Charlottesville, Virginia, said that given the resilience of U.S. consumers --whose spending drives the U.S. economy -- and the unprecedented stimulus injected into the U.S. economy by the Fed, he expects growth to resume by year end.

Hoenig, speaking in New York, was less confident saying the economic outlook remained "uncertain" and it would take "most of the rest of the year" to move out of recession before starting on a path of "steady, slow" recovery in 2010.

Housing and construction data released on Monday added to other recent signs that the worst of the longest recession since the Great Depression may be over, driving the S&P 500 stock index into positive territory for the year.


I don't see our economy turning until we stop bleeding jobs at the current rate.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 May, 2009 08:31 pm
Please, anyone, clue me in. We are in the process of handing Chrysler over to Fiat for free, and Fiat officials are currently in Europe trying to pick-up GM's European assets for nothing......yet before this all started S&P was warning that Fiat is so undercapitalized that it will not be able to meet its obligation.

The question is: What makes anyone think that an enlarged Fiat can survive?? They will have no money to develop product, massive cultural problems trying to ingest Chrysler and Maybe Opel and Saab as well, Fiat has recently been Bankrupt itself, Fiat losses money in Europe already, Daimler lost a ton of money trying to run Chrysler before giving up......how in hell does this have a happy ending??
 

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