114
   

Where is the US economy headed?

 
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Apr, 2009 09:03 am
@okie,
I believe 100% that:

1) If Obama and the Congress would roll back and scrap the stimulus package right now. ...
2) If Obama and the Congress would announce that the Bush tax cuts would be left untouched for at least two years.
3) If Obama and the Congress would announce small across the board tax rate cuts in all categories and at all levels
4) If Obama and the Congress would pass a budget taking care of government obligations and necessities and not including one penny more. . . .

We would be out of the recession and booming again within 60 to 90 days or less and the U.S. treasury would be taking far less of a hit and the deficits will be far less than what they are projected.

Government has never been able to pull us out of a recession and won't this time. The only thing that ever has or will is the free market and the determination of the American people and the best thing our government could do for us is to provide incentive across the board and turn us loose to get it done.
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Thu 16 Apr, 2009 09:27 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

I believe 100% that:

1) If Obama and the Congress would roll back and scrap the stimulus package right now. ...
2) If Obama and the Congress would announce that the Bush tax cuts would be left untouched for at least two years.
3) If Obama and the Congress would announce small across the board tax rate cuts in all categories and at all levels
4) If Obama and the Congress would pass a budget taking care of government obligations and necessities and not including one penny more. . . .

We would be out of the recession and booming again within 60 to 90 days or less and the U.S. treasury would be taking far less of a hit and the deficits will be far less than what they are projected.


Wow. I've never seen such a display of financial ignorance. Truly.

Cycloptichorn
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Apr, 2009 09:55 am
My, my, do we have presidential materials here or can she see Russia from her house?
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Apr, 2009 10:34 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:

I believe 100% that:

1) If Obama and the Congress would roll back and scrap the stimulus package right now. ...
2) If Obama and the Congress would announce that the Bush tax cuts would be left untouched for at least two years.
3) If Obama and the Congress would announce small across the board tax rate cuts in all categories and at all levels
4) If Obama and the Congress would pass a budget taking care of government obligations and necessities and not including one penny more. . . .

We would be out of the recession and booming again within 60 to 90 days or less and the U.S. treasury would be taking far less of a hit and the deficits will be far less than what they are projected.


Wow. I've never seen such a display of financial ignorance. Truly.

Cycloptichorn

Unless you believe government spending will increase gdp, independent of stimulating business, then you would be right, but if you wish to check out the gdp's of government controlled economies, perhaps that might surprise you, cyclops. If government could pay itself its own taxes after it does everything for everybody, to support all of its spending, now that would be an interesting scenario, I would like to see how that works, cyclops.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Apr, 2009 10:38 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxie, What is your background in finance and the economy of the US and the world?
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Apr, 2009 11:59 am
@cicerone imposter,
Thats a fair question.

What is your background?
Provide references we can check, along with any degrees you might have, where and when you got those degrees, and your work experience in international finance.

Since you seem to be suggesting that foxy cant speak on the subject unless she can provide her bona fides in the field, its only fair to expect the same of you.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Apr, 2009 12:05 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:

I believe 100% that:

1) If Obama and the Congress would roll back and scrap the stimulus package right now. ...
2) If Obama and the Congress would announce that the Bush tax cuts would be left untouched for at least two years.
3) If Obama and the Congress would announce small across the board tax rate cuts in all categories and at all levels
4) If Obama and the Congress would pass a budget taking care of government obligations and necessities and not including one penny more. . . .

We would be out of the recession and booming again within 60 to 90 days or less and the U.S. treasury would be taking far less of a hit and the deficits will be far less than what they are projected.


Wow. I've never seen such a display of financial ignorance. Truly.

Cycloptichorn

Unless you believe government spending will increase gdp, independent of stimulating business, then you would be right, but if you wish to check out the gdp's of government controlled economies, perhaps that might surprise you, cyclops. If government could pay itself its own taxes after it does everything for everybody, to support all of its spending, now that would be an interesting scenario, I would like to see how that works, cyclops.


Businesses stimulate themselves for the most part; the funds in the stim package were not to help businesses, but to help individuals ride out the downturn in business.

Government spending in many cases does, btw, increase GDP. Basic scientific research funded by the Government in labs and Universities all across the nation leads to practically all of our Applied research, which leads to products, which leads to profits for businesses. Amazing to me that you don't understand how our economy and economic development works on the most basic level.

Cycloptichorn
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Apr, 2009 12:27 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
And many universities like Stanford teach their students to become great entrepreneurs who in turn create some of the biggest businesses not only in the US but the whole world.
okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Apr, 2009 01:34 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

And many universities like Stanford teach their students to become great entrepreneurs who in turn create some of the biggest businesses not only in the US but the whole world.

Thats funny, I know many entrepeneurs, and not a one from Stanford. That post is a great example of liberal snootiness, you think nobody can accomplish anything unless they are "educated" by the elite. In fact, many people I know that operate great businesses don't even have a college education at all, and certainly if they did, it doesn't have to be at Stanford, it might be at podunk college.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Apr, 2009 01:36 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Government spending in many cases does, btw, increase GDP. Basic scientific research funded by the Government in labs and Universities all across the nation leads to practically all of our Applied research, which leads to products, which leads to profits for businesses. Amazing to me that you don't understand how our economy and economic development works on the most basic level.

Cycloptichorn

I think its a safe bet that business owners know a heck of lot more than you do, cyclops.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Apr, 2009 02:06 pm
@okie,
Is that why so many businesses fail? LOL
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Apr, 2009 02:13 pm
@cicerone imposter,
From BusinessWeek:
Quote:
His research"consistent with similar studies"found that about one in four restaurants close or change ownership within their first year of business. Over three years, that number rises to three in five.

While a 60% failure rate may still sound high, that's on par with the cross-industry average for new businesses, according to statistics from the Small Business Administration and the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Apr, 2009 02:16 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
Government spending in many cases does, btw, increase GDP. Basic scientific research funded by the Government in labs and Universities all across the nation leads to practically all of our Applied research, which leads to products, which leads to profits for businesses. Amazing to me that you don't understand how our economy and economic development works on the most basic level.

Cycloptichorn

I think its a safe bet that business owners know a heck of lot more than you do, cyclops.


There's no particular reason they should understand the overall function of the US economy better than you or I. And I struggle to see how your comment applies to mine at all.

Cycloptichorn
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Apr, 2009 02:43 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
okie doesn't remember how our economy grew after WWII. During the war, most Americans earned money by working at factories building war machines like tanks, airplanes and ships. Americans had many forms of rationing, but they were working and earning income. After the war, new residential developments sprung up all over America funded through the demand from many who worked in American factories. That in turn created greater demand for consumer goods.

okie's knowledge of economics is zilch, nada, empty, zero.
okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Apr, 2009 02:47 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Is that why so many businesses fail? LOL

That is a natural process of the market weeding out badly run businesses, thus improving the overall quality of products and services available to the people. So failure is a sign that the system is working, just as success is also.

Not so with government, as politicians make excuses and continue to provide the same old lousy product that it wants to provide. New politicians can be sent to Washington, but it is a slow and cumbersome, and often impossible task to remove failed and substandard government services and products. That is another reason why throwing more money into the hopper for bureaucrats to waste and spend frivolously is a really stupid idea for stimulating the economy.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Apr, 2009 03:14 pm
@okie,
How do you make the claim that business people are more knowledgeable about our economy (or business) than anybody else on a2k?

How did you arrive at your conclusion?
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Reply Thu 16 Apr, 2009 03:16 pm
@cicerone imposter,
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/10/14/opinion/14opchart.full.jpg

This is a graph showing how democratic presidents performed vs republican presidents. There are many articles and graphs on web sites that confirms this graph.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Apr, 2009 03:20 pm
A simple way to fix the economy...

http://thebarricadeblog.com/2009/04/15/a-modest-proposal/

Quote:
Our Modest Proposal, dear reader: sell the State of Florida to the highest bidder, preferably China. 50 States are simply no longer sustainable. But think of the bids that Florida would bring in! With a GDP of over $700 billion, we could easily get $50 trillion for it if you factor in all the capital in the state"at reduced, fire sale prices, of course. And the Chinese love Mickey. This is the only way to continue to fund our standard of living without going further and further down into the gyre of debt.


The article is actually humorous, even though the subject it mentions is serious.

So dont anyone get their panties in a knot about the article.
okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Apr, 2009 03:25 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

okie doesn't remember how our economy grew after WWII. During the war, most Americans earned money by working at factories building war machines like tanks, airplanes and ships. Americans had many forms of rationing, but they were working and earning income. After the war, new residential developments sprung up all over America funded through the demand from many who worked in American factories. That in turn created greater demand for consumer goods.

okie's knowledge of economics is zilch, nada, empty, zero.

So, it wasn't the New Deal at all, ci? And I thought you were the one complaining that the Iraq War would break us for the past few years?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Thu 16 Apr, 2009 03:36 pm
@mysteryman,
If we're selling FL to anyone, it has to be Israel. For sure.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
 

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