114
   

Where is the US economy headed?

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Mar, 2009 01:25 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter, Your link doesn't work.
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Mar, 2009 02:16 pm
@cicerone imposter,
c.i. :

here is the site walter linked - had to knock off the last "dubbins" to get the site .
enjoy and don't lose any sleep over it - the sun might still rise tomorrow (unless someone figures out that the "constitution" might be violated by such unsanctioned action <GRIN > )
hbg

http://seekingalpha.com/article/125657-moody-s-bottom-rung-list-283-potential-dead-man-walking-companies
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Mar, 2009 02:47 pm
@hamburger,
Thanks hbg; I believe that list is a very conservative one, and represents only a small percentage of companies in financial difficulties. As long as consumers hold back on spending, more companies will feel the pain and lay off more workers - which in turn translates into more defaults on mortgages. This cycle will not stop for at least the next 18 months (and more).
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Mar, 2009 03:08 pm
@cicerone imposter,
c.i. :
when my money is involved i can become very "conservative" too Wink
but still believe the sun will come up tomorrow !
take care !
hbg
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Mar, 2009 03:09 pm
@hamburger,
Thanks, hamburger.
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Mar, 2009 03:16 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
but c.i. seems at least a little disappointed - too conservative for his taste - but i wonder what some "true" conservatives will have to say about it ?
"another liberal view ! " , no doubt.
hbg
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Mar, 2009 03:32 pm
@hamburger,
The sun will definitely come up tomorrow, but our stash may be a little smaller.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Mar, 2009 03:56 pm
@mysteryman,
No, the market will not be "showing that." It will take several months to even get the stimulus plan working, and it'll be many more months after that the plan will have any effect on the declining economy; my HO says at least 18-months before we begin to see any improvement.

When there's an avalanche, it's impossible to stop it immediately when more begins to fall every minute of every day.

The market does not responds to "plans." It must first see "evidence" that any plan has teeth, and begins to show improvement in the economy. That will not happen in two months or twelve months when we are bleeding jobs at the rate of over half million every month.

Where did you study economics?
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Mar, 2009 05:06 pm
@cicerone imposter,
listening just now to commentators from the TSX (toronto stockmarket) .
since the market has been up for 5 days in a row , the question was : is it the beginning of a rally or a bear-trap ?
the consensus was that it was NOT the beginning of a rally , but neither a bear trap .
the opinion was that the market had by now underpriced many of the "solid" canadian stocks heavily - by as much as 20 t0 30 % .
unless there is a "major" bump in the world market , they did not think "a few billion one-way-or-the-other" would make much of a difference one way or the other .

they also spoke of the expectations that the western countries have re. the chinese "helping" the western economies .
apparently china has been invited to full membership in the IMF - but has gratefully declined . the chinese think that they will be blamed for the problems of the western economies and would prefer to stay on the sidelines .
(must say that i cannot really fault them for not wanting become entangled in the western economic system - it's shown to be extremely weak and will likely need a major overhaul ) .
hbg

report from the ECONOMIST :

Quote:
SINCE the financial crisis went truly global in the second half of 2008, the resources of the International Monetary Fund, the principal firebreak against global contagion, have looked increasingly inadequate. The fund has about $250 billion of usable capacity at its disposal to lend to countries in distress, but a lot of that has now been spoken for. The IMF has called for its ability to lend to be doubled.

The big countries that are the IMF’s main shareholders agree in principle, but there has been no consensus yet on just how to go about boosting the fund’s resources. On Wednesday March 11th Tim Geithner, America's treasury secretary, proposed boosting the IMF’s credit line with rich countries to an impressive $500 billion from its present $50 billion. It will be considered at this weekend's meeting of G20 finance ministers.

There are three possible methods of boosting the IMF's resources on the table. One is an increase in member countries’ “quotas”, which are analogous to shareholder capital and make up the IMF’s permanent funding. But such increases are laborious to arrange and politically difficult to push through. Congress must approve America’s quota increase and, by extension, everybody else’s increased quota too, since America is the IMF’s largest shareholder. Another option is for the IMF to issue its own promissory notes; it has the authority to do so but has never wielded it.

A third method is borrowing from its member countries. In February Japan lent the IMF $100 billion and other countries with ample reserves, most notably China and Saudi Arabia, have been urged to follow suit. But those countries are unlikely to put their hands in their pockets without getting something in return"for example, more say in the governance of the fund, or less criticism of their policies (such as China’s exchange rate). America supports, in principle, the idea of giving emerging markets more say in the IMF.

A less ad hoc way of lending the IMF more money is expansion of the General Arrangements to Borrow (GAB) and New Arrangements to Borrow (NAB). These are stand-by lines of credit that the IMF maintains with its richest member countries. The GAB was boosted significantly following the Mexican crisis of 1994 and now both pots stand at about $50 billion. It is the NAB that Mr Geithner has proposed expanding.



report in full :
http://www.economist.com/finance/displaystory.cfm?story_id=13278629


0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Mar, 2009 05:21 pm
Good evening. I was rummaging around the internet today and came up with an AP story on "home foreclosures" for February. Using their definition, the number was 300,000 which would be up 6% over January and 30% over February, 2008.
This happened despite a temporary freeze by Freddie, Fannie and numerous big banks.
The areas most affected are FL, CA, NV, AZ. The usual cast of characters where house prices skyrocketed and some stupid buyers bought more than they could ever afford from lendors too eager to make the loans.
Now the problem is spreading to places like OR and WY where the problem is not being driven by foolish decisions but by unemployment or underemployment.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Mar, 2009 06:07 pm
@realjohnboy,
rjb, Even our county had record high mortgage defaults, and we used to be the highest pay (average) in the US.

Quote:
Mortgage default notices reach record high in Santa Clara County - San Jose Mercury News

Written by amaxwell on Mar-11-09 5:03pm

okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Mar, 2009 11:20 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Face it, ci, your state is going broke, due to irresponsible management.

And now Obama's lovable ACORN is teaming up with teachers to keep the state from protecting the rights of taxpayers.

"Terrific: Tax-subsidized ACORN mob teams up with L.A. teachers

As if ACORN’s shakedown artists and thugs weren’t causing enough trouble, now they’re occupying public school board meeting rooms to prevent government educators from cutting costs, firing useless teachers, and dealing with financial realities.

This is now the second “civil disobedience” campaign waged by the entitlement-mongers."


http://michellemalkin.com/2009/03/11/terrific-tax-subsidized-acorn-mob-teams-up-with-la-teachers/
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Mar, 2009 11:35 am
@okie,
okie, Where have you been all these years? Most governments in the US are going bankrupt, and that includes state, county, and local governments in addition to the feds. It's also true of most consumers; they borrowed to continue their spending spree, and most are now under water on their payments.

It's the majority, stupid!
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Mar, 2009 10:53 am
@cicerone imposter,
I've been right here, paying my bills, being responsible. Meanwhile, your liberals are breaking the banks, with stupid policies, as in California. I don't know where you got the idea you could pay for every stupid policy that came down the pike, and still stay solvent. Do you? When are you moving out of California, before the state collapses?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Mar, 2009 11:54 am
@okie,
Do you mean like what Bush did during his eight years in office?

You continue to show your ignorance of both politics and economics. Bush was a disaster for our country both politically and economically. That you still don't understand that our government must assist the banks to survive for our economy to survive shows how ignorant you are about economics.

You're about the dumbest poster on a2k, bar none.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Mar, 2009 12:37 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:


Of course I can. It was the Bush SEC which failed to regulate the markets and failed to have any clue what was going on at all. They are one of the prime people responsible for creating this mess.

Obama is left trying to clean it up. Your equating the two situations is ridiculous.

Cycloptichorn


Odd isn't it then that the new president hasn't yet done anything to extend the SEC's powers or increase its domain of oversight.

If these cute, compact little "explanations" for the current liquidity crisis were true then there should also be some equivalently cute and compact solutions for them. Unfortunately the sainted Obama hasn't yet found them. it is merely unfortunate for us that he and his loonie allies in Congress have thrown most of our present and future capital into the black hole of their favored social programs - for the benefit of their favored constituents (whom we can be sure will not themselves dig us out of this mess.)
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Mar, 2009 12:54 pm
@georgeob1,
George, I think you've just learned the lesson of true revolutionaries everywhere. It's much easier to blow up trains than to make them run on time.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Mar, 2009 01:00 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob, Give Obama time; he's now working on an economic crisis, and he's been in office for less than two months. A little patience will go a long way.

The Obama administration is also investigating other issues concerning fraud in the stock market transactions and individual investment houses. Mae, Mac, AIG, and all the banks are now being scrutinized more closely; and you should know this. Obama is trying to juggle hundreds of important issues at the same time. Give the guy a break!
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Mar, 2009 01:02 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Do you mean like what Bush did during his eight years in office?

You continue to show your ignorance of both politics and economics. Bush was a disaster for our country both politically and economically. That you still don't understand that our government must assist the banks to survive for our economy to survive shows how ignorant you are about economics.

You're about the dumbest poster on a2k, bar none.


Don't you think that this might just be a little harsh and over the top, Cicerone ?

I don't think that this kid of venom adds much to the experience of A2K for anyone here. It certainly doesn't add any substance to the arguments you have put forward; nor does it refute anything okie has written. What's the point of it?
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Mar, 2009 01:03 pm
@georgeob1,
The SEC had, and still has, quite a bit of power. Unfortunately Harvey (kinder and gentler SEC) and Chris (free market cures all) Cox refused to use their powers. Among many other failures, they refused to regulate derivatives, which are now an unbelievably huge potential liability for the banks.
 

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