Where is the US economy headed?

@Cycloptichorn,

Funny, eh? okie blames 9/11 on Clinton, and he blames the stock market drops on Obama.

That essentially leaves Bush with the responsibility for 6 out of his 8 years in office....

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@Cycloptichorn,

Cyclotroll, take your blinders off!

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@Cycloptichorn,

I repeat, an anti-capitalist is elected, and you think the stock market is blind to that event, cyclops?

Are you blind?

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@okie,

okie wrote:

I repeat, an anti-capitalist is elected, and you think the stock market is blind to that event, cyclops?

Are you blind?

What makes you think Obama is an anti-capitalist?

Okie, quit swallowing your own rhetorical bullshit. Obama is no socialist or anything like it. I, for example, am much farther left on economics than he is. This attempt to blame everything on a guy who hasn't taken office yet is asinine.

What is it you think, that millions of traders are all morose about Obama and so have just decided to devalue stocks and lose money - because they are depressed about him? You don't think it has, oh, a lot more to do with the pre-existing financial crisis, GM going down, Ford going down, Unemployment skyrocketing? This is a totally illogical line for you to be taking, Okie, and I don't understand what data lead you to your conclusions. Was there any data at all?

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@old europe,

old europe wrote:

Funny, eh? okie blames 9/11 on Clinton, and he blames the stock market drops on Obama.

That essentially leaves Bush with the responsibility for 6 out of his 8 years in office....

Pretty good evidence for 9/11, as the Clintons dealt with terror as a crime problem, and the "wall" prevented exchange of information between agencies that could have prevented 9/11. Clinton passed on taking custody of Bin Laden. The facts are there, oe. The mechanism to perform 9/11 was well on its way during the Clinton administration, and it went undeterred. I am not leaving Bush totally without blame, he could have done something, maybe, but I think its about 80% Clinton at least, 20% or less Bush, if any fault can be laid out. Of course the terrorists themselves are at fault, but fault for not preventing, 80+Clinton, 20-Bush.

Now, the market, Bush's irrepsonsible spending is big, as have been the last few decades of irrepsonsible spending, mostly Democratic Congress, also the catalyst Fannie and Freddie is Democrat caused mostly. Now an anti-capitalist is elected, yes, that will impact the market greatly. I would give it 50 / 50 Democrat Republican caused, but the root of the problem is mostly Democrat social spending policies. The market is alot emotion, and the election is huge. Obama needs to say something to assure the public that capitalism will be supported, and he is silent.

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Obama is no socialist or anything like it.

Now that's some big time rhetorical bullshit!

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I've been watching the market for a lot of years now and even trained for a brief period with a brokerage firm before I decided I couldn't see myself doing that stuff day in and day out. I have come to some conclusions:

1. Government shores up the economy best with favorable tax structures for those who create a lot of jobs, favorable tax structures for those who buy houses and cars and other products, low interest rates for everybody to make taking reasonable risk possible, and regulations that encourage expansion, growth, and producing more goods at home while encouraging free trade that expands markets.

2. With these other factors in place, the economy will then be better when the people believe things will be better. For two years now, the media has countered every bit of good news out there with something negative and that kind of prophecy tends to be self fufilling. The more bad news is exaggerated, the more bad news there will actually be and it feeds on itself. If the media would start reporting as much good news as there is alongside any negatives, we would see this turn around quickly.

3. The government pumping money into the problem, however, is short term and usually has little positive effect.

4. Some of the policies proposed by our incoming President will make things much worse if they are actually implemented.

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@Foxfyre,

Those conclusions are based upon ideology, and not facts, Fox; for the economy has performed much, much better under those presidents who have instituted policies that are the opposite of the ones you propose, than they have under pro-business Republican policies.

Cycloptichorn

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@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

What makes you think Obama is an anti-capitalist?Cycloptichorn

Simple answer. By reading his book, studying his beginnings, his political career, his friends and associates, and don't leave out his pastor that was a good friend and mentor, his church with black liberation theology which is a philosophy of anti-capitalism, and his mantra "change." All of it added up, I am convinced that Obama is a socialist at heart, not a typical one, but somebody that thinks he can devise a new form of it somehow, but it is socialism repackaged.

If you don't agree, then don't, but I see you as one of two possibilities, one you are very naive, or two - you are just like Obama, you are also a socialist but you are not totally honest about who you are, or you are just a very confused person, politically. If you are a capitalist at heart, you should never have voted for Obama. If not, then you voted what you believe. Which is it, I don't know, but probably the latter?

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@okie,

Nobody seriously believes that Obama is an "anti-capitalist". Come on now.

In fact, multinational companies are pulling out of other markets and moving to the United States, because they see the policies under an Obama administration as favorable. And we're talking about billions of dollars of investements here.

Example:

Quote:

BP has confirmed that it will not take forward plans to develop wind farms in the UK, suggesting that opportunities are "more attractive" in the United States.

[...]

David Nicholas said BP, which is a "sustainability partner" of the London Olympics in 2012, only had a "certain amount of money to spend" on wind power projects and that the United States offered a "compelling case" for the investment to be made there.

The oil company's decision to focus wind development efforts in North America matches a similar decision by its rival Shell earlier this year.

BP sees the wide open spaces and windy conditions of the United States as particularly attractive because it says onshore wind farms of up to 2,000 turbines at a time can be built.

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@okie,

okie wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

What makes you think Obama is an anti-capitalist?Cycloptichorn

Simple answer. By reading his book, studying his beginnings, his political career, his friends and associates, and don't leave out his pastor that was a good friend and mentor, his church with black liberation theology which is a philosophy of anti-capitalism, and his mantra "change." All of it added up, I am convinced that Obama is a socialist at heart, not a typical one, but somebody that thinks he can devise a new form of it somehow, but it is socialism repackaged.

If you don't agree, then don't, but I see you as one of two possibilities, one you are very naive, or two - you are just like Obama, you are also a socialist but you are not totally honest about who you are, or you are just a very confused person, politically.

Dude, I'm an avowed fan of Socialism. I am honest about this. And what Obama proposes is nothing like what I would like to see. You don't even know what 'socialism' is, do you?

What you have done, is taken a smear, and used some odd evidence to try and bolster that smear into some sort of crazy opinion. But nobody is buying it. Obama has never proposed anything 'socialist.' Raising taxes on the rich isn't 'socialist.'

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

cyclops, you are typical of leftists. You address my honest and factual answers and call them a smear. Nothing I said about Obama and why I assess him the way I am is off base or a smear. If you are proud of socialism, why call it a smear, cyclops, why not be proud. Be proud of what you believe. If you call me a capitalist, it is no smear, I am for freedom, free markets, and the American ideals, very proud, you can accuse me of it and it is no smear. Go ahead, try it.

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@okie,

okie wrote:

cyclops, you are typical of leftists. You address my honest and factual answers and call them a smear. Nothing I said about Obama and why I assess him the way I am is off base or a smear.

You have not provided any facts at all, Okie. You have provided smears. You talk about his associations as if that is factual determinations of his policies and beliefs; that's a dumb thing to do. You have linked to no actual evidence, just opinions.

Quote:

If you are proud of socialism, why call it a smear, cyclops, why not be proud. Be proud of what you believe.

I call it a smear, because that is exactly how you intend it. You aren't calling him a 'socialist' as a mere descriptor, it's a term which for you is pejorative. Don't play dumb, Okie.

Quote:

If you call me a capitalist, it is no smear, I am for freedom, free markets, and the American ideals, very proud, you can accuse me of it and it is no smear. Go ahead, try it.

It's not a smear, for I do not believe Capitalism to be an inherently bad thing in the way that you seem to believe that Socialism is.

I'm not really interested in getting into discussions about your opinions of capitalism or socialism, Okie; they are tendentious and predictable. Instead, I will focus on the fact that you don't know what the f*ck you are talking about when it comes to Obama OR the stock markets. Neither you nor that idiot Max Boot have an ounce of proof to support your position, nor any logical argument showing causation or even Correlation between the stock market and Obama. This is the very definition of a baseless smear.

Cycloptichorn

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@okie,

okie wrote:

cyclops, you are typical of leftists. You address my honest and factual answers and call them a smear.

Fun.

"Bush is a fascist. I have reached this obvious conclusion from looking at his actions, at his philosophy and at his biography prior to becoming President. If you don't agree, then don't, but I see you as one of two possibilities, one you are very naive, or two - you are just like Bush, you are also a fascist but you are not totally honest about who you are, or you are just a very confused person, politically."

See how this works. Oh yes, and if you complain that that's just I smear, I'd have this answer for you:

"You are typical of rightwing nutjobs. You address my honest and factual answers and call them a smear."

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@Cycloptichorn,

There is no question Cyclo that the stock markets will react to the election result. There is a question of what that effect is. It might be positive and mitigate larger negative factors. It might be negative and inhibit larger positive factors. The argument here is based upon the election result being the only factor in play. Which is ridiculous.

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@okie,

okie wrote:

H2O MAN wrote:

DOW DROPS ... AND OBAMA HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT?

An anti-capitalist is elected president, and my investment advisor said the election has nothing to do with this melt down. Should I fire him? Spendius, Hawkeye, H2Oman, any opinions on that?

The dow rose today 500 points.

OMG THEY LOVE OBAMA

XXXOOOO XOXOXOXO to Obama
- The financial Sector

---

You guys are phucking pathetic

Cycloptichorn

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@Cycloptichorn,

I heard one reference re the markets big rise today: Obama's apparent appointment of Timothy Guitner (sp?) to Secretary of Treasury. He has served as the head of the Fed Reserve of NY, has not been tainted by working on Wall Street, instead working within the government for a number of years.

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@Cycloptichorn,

The market's uptick today is based on B.S. The economy says it's going to go much lower. Simple conclusion.

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@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Quote:
If you are proud of socialism, why call it a smear, cyclops, why not be proud. Be proud of what you believe.

I call it a smear, because that is exactly how you intend it. You aren't calling him a 'socialist' as a mere descriptor, it's a term which for you is pejorative. Don't play dumb, Okie.
Cycloptichorn

LOL. I don't care how you mean it, call me a capitalist, I am not ashamed of it. Again, calling somebody a socialist should not be smear if it is something you are proud of, regardless of how I mean it. I do not endorse socialism, but if you do, be proud, stand up, don't be a coward, cyclops.

1 Reply

@old europe,

old europe wrote:

okie wrote:
cyclops, you are typical of leftists. You address my honest and factual answers and call them a smear.

Fun.

"Bush is a fascist. I have reached this obvious conclusion from looking at his actions, at his philosophy and at his biography prior to becoming President. If you don't agree, then don't, but I see you as one of two possibilities, one you are very naive, or two - you are just like Bush, you are also a fascist but you are not totally honest about who you are, or you are just a very confused person, politically."

See how this works. Oh yes, and if you complain that that's just I smear, I'd have this answer for you:

"You are typical of rightwing nutjobs. You address my honest and factual answers and call them a smear."

oe, that is one of the most pathetic posts you have ever written. Assessing someone as a socialist is not akin to assessing someone as a fascist, you have lost it, totally. rightwing nutjobs, LOL, you are a leftwing nutjob. You call somebody a rightwing nutjob for believing in capitalism, get a life, oe.

Every once in a while, people on this forum reveal their true beliefs, and yours and cyclops are coming through. You are not completely honest in my opinion, and again, I am not ashamed of what I believe, freedom, individual responsibility, and the pursuit of happiness, which includes capitalism, the right for anyone to work and enjoy the fruits of their own labor. It is called freedom, oe. That is what America is about. Or at least it was about that.

Fascists believe in socialism, oe, you might want to check that out.

1 Reply

Where is the US economy headed?

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