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Where is the US economy headed?

 
 
Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jan, 2008 01:48 pm
not really, but carry on.
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Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jan, 2008 01:52 pm
Sacking workers show the slow-down of economy sir.
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Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jan, 2008 01:52 pm
Re: back to public education and taxpayer spending:

Washington, D.C. - "Teachers' salaries have stayed relatively stagnant while teachers' health care costs have jumped to all-time rates, making it difficult to attract and keep good teachers at a time when they are increasingly needed, according to the American Federation of Teachers' annual state-by-state teachers salary released Thursday.

The 2002-03 average teacher salary was $45,771, up 3.3 percent from the previous year, according to the report. The 2002-03 average beginning teacher salary was $29,564, up 3.2 percent from the year before. The AFT estimates that the average beginning salary for the most recent school year, 2003-04, was $30,496. But while teacher salaries rose an average 3.3 percent, health insurance benefits spiked an average 13 percent, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics."

"Furthermore, the AFT noted, superintendents' average salaries are as much as four times higher than teachers' average pay, according to the Educational Research Service.

"States and school districts are crying poverty when it comes to teachers' pay, yet somehow find money for extravagant administrator salaries. Strong leadership without a quality teaching force won't improve education," McElroy said."

Hmmm...more greed by public Education leaders and less efficiency, it seems.
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realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jan, 2008 02:50 pm
Re: December Employment Report From BLS

I reckon I see this thread, Ragman, as being sort of like a cocktail party where there may be several conversations going on at the same time. Ram was responding to something we talked about a long time ago: Friday, yesterday, when the jobs report came out.

Ramafuchs wrote:
The pace of job losses in mortgage lending slowed in December...


7,000 jobs in Dec down from 13,000 in Nov with something like 79,000 since the mortgage bubble burst in February, according to the article cited by Ram.

And there will be more job losses to come in that industry after the holidays, I think.

I met Friday with the financial guy in our group of investors working on our development project in Cville and he said we were meeting with S--- Bank on Tuesday. Odd, I said, I recall you bad-mouthing them a few months ago as being difficult to work with. He replied that S--- had approached him about our projects and they are one of the few banks not seriously damaged.

Normally we would work with some of the NY banks, but they don't have any money to lend. Some of them have taken big losses already but still have more bad loans on the books. C--- took a $6 billion write down and may have $10 billion more to go, They are slashing their dividend and will soon begin hurling employees out the windows. (That has actually been reported in the financial press, but I can't source it, so it is just C--- for the moment)
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Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jan, 2008 02:55 pm
My intention is not to disturb the discussion but
stick to the main subject of the thread..
I wish and hope that the main subject get more attention .
Sorry, if i had intruded.
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Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jan, 2008 03:01 pm
realjohnboy wrote:
Re: December Employment Report From BLS

I reckon I see this thread, Ragman, as being sort of like a cocktail party where there may be several conversations going on at the same time. Ram was responding to something we talked about a long time ago: Friday, yesterday, when the jobs report came out.


Duely noted. Carry on, Sargent RJB
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jan, 2008 03:09 pm
To peggy-back or rjb's last post, I just want to add that the subprime mortgage crisis will impact more than those financial institutions that are heavy in those loans. The construction industry plus all the makers of products in support of those industries will also start throwing workers out the window. It's going to be difficult for the next several years, and it's anybody's guess how long that'll be.
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jan, 2008 03:29 pm
Okie wrote
Quote:
Ragman, this country built the best educated generation and the most technically advanced country on the face of the earth without a lot of federal spending."


Wrong! The GI bill is what spurred and paid for the educational advances in this nation. That OH wise one was a government program.

As far as Obama for president. That is a roll of the dice that that I for one am not willing to take. Hopefully this time my vote will go to a winner.
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Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jan, 2008 03:37 pm
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Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jan, 2008 03:44 pm
au1929 wrote:
Okie wrote
Quote:
Ragman, this country built the best educated generation and the most technically advanced country on the face of the earth without a lot of federal spending."


Wrong! The GI bill is what spurred and paid for the educational advances in this nation. That OH wise one was a government program.


Also, reconnecting with this point about education --

This current generation (generation X and Y, who are the potential pool of teachers/professors) are/is NOT the same as those who were educated by GI Bill or the same one who made this country one of the greatest technologically advanced counties with the strongest economic engine.

These are just not the same workers.
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Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jan, 2008 03:46 pm
Ragman
"The truth is that China is too big to be bullied,
yes
and the Chinese are too cynical to be charmed. "
Wrong.
But for this statement I admire the author who is not an xyz.
Thanks for quoting to make the discussion lively sir.
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hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jan, 2008 09:13 pm
from the MONEYNEWS
--------------------------
Quote:
MoneyNews
Thursday, Jan. 3, 2008

In a sign of how the once mighty U.S. dollar has fallen, India's tourism minister said Thursday that U.S. dollars will no longer be accepted at the country's heritage tourist sites, like the famed Taj Mahal.



article in full :
U.S. DOLLARS NOT ACCEPTED

when our cruiseship stopped over in rio de janeiro two years ago , we found out that while street sellers were accepting U.S. $ , stores asked us to exchange our U.S. $ at the bank !
U.S. $ was not not accepted in several stores where we had planned to shop . since it was a friday and there were long lineups at the banks we just bought from some street sellers - who extracted a good exchange rate in THEIR favour :wink: i can't blame them !
hbg
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jan, 2008 09:43 pm
China is being dragged down with the US dollar, because they peg their yuan to our currency. Big mistake: they continue to lose buying power and their US bond holdings become less valuable.

That's helping us reduce our balance of payments, and makes our products and services more competitive in the world markets, but at some point, nobody is going to want US dollars because they continue to lose value. That's also going to add to our inflation no matter what the feds does to interest rates.
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okie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jan, 2008 11:17 pm
Ragman wrote:
au1929 wrote:
Okie wrote
Quote:
Ragman, this country built the best educated generation and the most technically advanced country on the face of the earth without a lot of federal spending."


Wrong! The GI bill is what spurred and paid for the educational advances in this nation. That OH wise one was a government program.


Also, reconnecting with this point about education --

This current generation (generation X and Y, who are the potential pool of teachers/professors) are/is NOT the same as those who were educated by GI Bill or the same one who made this country one of the greatest technologically advanced counties with the strongest economic engine.

These are just not the same workers.

In regard to public education, we don't need to throw more money at a broken system. We need reform. So for the people crying change, such as Obama, are they serious or not, when it comes to the institutions that need change, such as the educational system, the tax system, and a few other things? I suspect it is nothing more than a slogan.
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Miller
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jan, 2008 08:40 am
Quote:
people crying change, such as Obama, are they serious or not, when it comes to the institutions that need change,


If Obama was serious, why then do Chicago Public Schools have such a bad reputation?

Let Obama go back to Illinois and begin to clean up the social and eonomic problems there before claiming to be a savior to the average working American middle class person in the rest of our country.
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Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jan, 2008 03:37 pm
Crisis may make 1929 look a 'walk in the park'
By Editorial
Jan 4, 2008, 13:00



Excerpts ...

"As the credit paralysis stretches through its fifth month, a chorus of economists has begun to warn that the world's central banks are fighting the wrong war, and perhaps risk a policy error of epochal proportions."

"York professor Peter Spencer, chief economist for the ITEM Club, says the global authorities have just weeks to get this right, or trigger disaster."

"The central banks are trying to dissociate financial problems from the real economy. They are pushing the world nearer and nearer to the edge of depression. We hope they will eventually be dragged kicking and screaming to do enough, but time is running out." -Bernard Connolly, global strategist at Banque AIG.

"The kind of upheaval observed in the international money markets over the past few months has never been witnessed in history," says Thomas Jordan, a Swiss central bank governor."

"Where will it end? A fresh study by Morgan Stanley warns that the big banks face a further $200bn of defaults in commercial property. On it goes."

Section 13 (3) allows the Fed to take emergency action when banks become "unwilling or very reluctant to provide credit". A vote by five governors can - in "exigent circumstances" - authorise the bank to lend money to anybody, and take upon itself the credit risk. This clause has not been evoked since the Slump.

Yet still the central banks shrink from seriously grasping the rate-cut nettle. Understandably so. They are caught between the Scylla of the debt crunch and the Charybdis of inflation. It is not yet certain which is the more powerful force.

America's headline CPI screamed to 4.3 per cent in November. This may be a rogue figure, the tail effects of an oil, commodity, and food price spike. If so, the Fed missed its chance months ago to prepare the markets for such a case. It is now stymied.
http://axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/article_25777.shtml
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jan, 2008 03:45 pm
Rama, As I've mentioned elsewhere on a2k, the US is already in the midst of inflation. Our loss of value against all major currencies in the world, our consumer and federal debt, the subprime mortgage debacle, and our wages not keeping up with inflation is self-evident without the feds playing with short-term interest rates.
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jan, 2008 03:48 pm
C I
I know that you had opined in advance about the danger.


Impending Destruction of the US Economy
By Paul Craig Roberts
Jan 5, 2008, 05:03



Hubris and arrogance are too ensconced in Washington for policymakers to be aware of the economic policy trap in which they have placed the US economy. If the subprime mortgage meltdown is half as bad as predicted, low US interest rates will be required in order to contain the crisis. But if the dollar's plight is half as bad as predicted, high US interest rates will be required if foreigners are to continue to hold dollars and to finance US budget and trade deficits.

Which will Washington sacrifice, the domestic financial system and over-extended homeowners or its ability to finance deficits?

The answer seems obvious. Everything will be sacrificed in order to protect Washington's ability to borrow abroad. Without the ability to borrow abroad, Washington cannot conduct its wars of aggression, and Americans cannot continue to consume $800 billion dollars more each year than the economy produces.

A few years ago the euro was worth 85 cents. Today it is worth $1.48. This is an enormous decline in the exchange value of the US dollar. Foreigners who finance the US budget and trade deficits have experienced a huge drop in the value of their dollar holdings. The interest rate on US Treasury bonds does not come close to compensating foreigners for the decline in the value of the dollar against other traded currencies. Investment returns from real estate and equities do not offset the losses from the decline in the dollar's value.

China holds over one trillion dollars, and Japan almost one trillion, in dollar-denominated assets. Other countries have lesser but still substantial amounts. As the US dollar is the reserve currency, the entire world's investment portfolio is over-weighted in dollars.

No country wants to hold a depreciating asset, and no country wants to acquire more depreciating assets. In order to reassure itself, Wall Street claims that foreign countries are locked into accumulating dollars in order to protect the value of their existing dollar holdings. But this is utter nonsense. The US dollar has lost 60% of its value during the current administration. Obviously, countries are not locked into accumulating dollars.

The reason the dollar has not completely collapsed is that there is no clear alternative as reserve currency. The euro is a currency without a country. It is the monetary unit of the European Union, but the countries of Europe have not surrendered their sovereignty to the EU. Moreover, the UK, a member of the EU, retains the British pound. The fact that a currency as politically exposed as the euro can rise in value so rapidly against the US dollar is powerful evidence of the weakness of the US dollar.

Japan and China have willingly accumulated dollars as the counterpart of their penetration and capture of US domestic markets. Japan and China have viewed the productive capacity and wealth created in their domestic economies by the success of their exports as compensation for the decline in the value of their dollar holdings. However, both countries have seen the writing on the wall, ignored by Washington and American economists: By offshoring production for US markets, the US has no prospect of closing its trade deficit. The offshored production of US firms counts as imports when it returns to the US to be marketed. The more US production moves abroad, the less there is to export and the higher imports rise.

Japan and China, indeed, the entire world, realize that they cannot continue forever to give Americans real goods and services in exchange for depreciating paper dollars. China is endeavoring to turn its development inward and to rely on its potentially huge domestic market. Japan is pinning hopes on participating in Asia's economic development.

The dollar's decline has resulted from foreigners accumulating new dollars at a lower rate. They still accumulate dollars, but fewer. As new dollars are still being produced at high rates, their value has dropped.

If foreigners were to stop accumulating new dollars, the dollar's value would plummet. If foreigners were to reduce their existing holdings of dollars, superpower America would instantly disappear.

Foreigners have continued to accumulate dollars in the expectation that sooner or later Washington would address its trade and budget deficits. However, now these deficits seem to have passed the point of no return.

The sharp decline in the dollar has not closed the trade deficit by increasing exports and decreasing imports. Offshoring prevents the possibility of exports reducing the trade deficit, and Americans are now dependent on imports (including offshored production) for which there are no longer any domestically produced alternatives. The US trade deficit will close when foreigners cease to finance it.

The budget deficit cannot be closed by taxation without driving up unemployment and poverty. American median family incomes have experienced no real increase during the 21st century. Moreover, if the huge bonuses paid to CEOs for offshoring their corporations' production and to Wall Street for marketing subprime derivatives are removed from the income figures, Americans have experienced a decline in real income. Some studies, such as the Economic Mobility Project, find long-term declines in the real median incomes of some US population groups and a decline in upward mobility.

The situation may be even more dire. Recent work by Susan Houseman concludes that US statistical data systems, which were set in place prior to the development of offshoring, are counting some foreign production as part of US productivity and GDP growth, thus overstating the actual performance of the US economy.

The falling dollar has pushed oil to $100 a barrel, which in turn will drive up other prices. The falling dollar means that the imports and offshored production on which Americans are dependent will rise in price. This is not a formula to produce a rise in US real incomes.

In the 21st century, the US economy has been driven by consumers going deeper in debt. Consumption fueled by increases in indebtedness received its greatest boost from Fed chairman Alan Greenspan's low interest rate policy. Greenspan covered up the adverse effects of offshoring on the US economy by engineering a housing boom. The boom created employment in construction and financial firms and pushed up home prices, thus creating equity for consumers to spend to keep consumer demand growing.

This source of US economic growth is exhausted and imploding. The full consequences of the housing bust remain to be realized. American consumers lack discretionary income and can pay higher taxes only by reducing their consumption. The service industries, which have provided the only source of new jobs in the 21st century, are already experiencing falling demand. A tax increase would cause widespread distress.

As John Maynard Keynes and his followers made clear, a tax increase on a recessionary economy is a recipe for falling tax revenues as well as economic hardship.

Superpower America is a ship of fools in denial of their plight. While offshoring kills American economic prospects, "free market economists" sing its praises. While war imposes enormous costs on a bankrupt country, neoconservatives call for more war, and Republicans and Democrats appropriate war funds which can only be obtained by borrowing abroad.

By focusing America on war in the Middle East, the purpose of which is to guarantee Israel's territorial expansion, the executive and legislative branches, along with the media, have let slip the last opportunities the US had to put its financial house in order. We have arrived at the point where it is no longer bold to say that nothing now can be done. Unless the rest of the world decides to underwrite our economic rescue, the chips will fall where they may.
http://axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/article_25782.shtml
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jan, 2008 03:56 pm
As economy lags, what levers to pull?
Pressure is mounting for the US government to act soon to prevent a recession.
By Mark Trumbull | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor
http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0107/p01s05-usec.html
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jan, 2008 04:00 pm
One of the big questions that hangs over both the US economy and individual Americans in 2008 is a seemingly simple one: What's a house really worth?

http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0102/p01s01-usec.html
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