114
   

Where is the US economy headed?

 
 
Builder
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2015 04:44 pm
@parados,
Quote:
If you want to be an ass Builder, you are more than welcome...


Hmmm, it would appear that you missed this posting from Mr Imposter, wherein he uses information from one source, (bogus) while telling me I'm an ignoramus for doing the same.


I've been watching the economic situation in both America and China, and the usual petro-dollar antics of the empirical oligarchy for over two decades.

The dropping fuel prices mean what to you? Cause for celebration?

Cicerone Imposter wrote;
Quote:
It's not even remotely surprising that anyone would suggest China has taken over as the economic superpower after reading one article. Quite ignorant.

The average Chinese earns $3,000 income per year. The average American housholed income was $52,250/year.

It's almost too comical that any ignoramus would try to sell bull shyt of the kind in you post.
0 Replies
 
Builder
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2015 04:51 pm
@parados,
Quote:
By no measure does China have a higher standard of living than the US since standard of living uses per capita for it's calculation.


Let's talk about fulltime employees requiring food stamps to survive.

Or working three jobs to keep a roof over your head.

Or bailing out criminal banksters, who illegally foreclosed on mortgages.

Or what we call "food deserts", where there's plenty of fast-food options, but no fresh produce available for miles.

Or the truth in labelling movement for GMO products. The rest of the planet is wising up, while Americans are kept in the dark on what they are literally being forced to consume (see food deserts).

I'll stop there, because I really don't want to bring you too far down this early in a new year.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2015 07:35 pm
@parados,
Builder,
Their presumed higher GDP is laughable at best; high comedy at worst.

The Chinese are polluting their environment, and killing themselves - for your presumed economic giant.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/25/china-toxic-air-pollution-nuclear-winter-scientists

Where do you get your financial information from? FAUX SNOOZE?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2015 07:38 pm
@Builder,
All you need to do is refute any of my claims by providing reputable sources for it

You are quite ignorant. Do youu understand how debate works?
Builder
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2015 08:00 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
You are quite ignorant. Do youu understand how debate works?


Again with the ad hominens. If you think that's how debate works, then go right ahead. Your source has been debunked at 101 level. Check your resources before putting yourself out there.
0 Replies
 
Builder
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2015 08:08 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
The Chinese are polluting their environment, and killing themselves - for your presumed economic giant.


You think China is like Denver? Certain sectors of China have extreme pollution levels. You've not heard of America's Sacrifice Zones? They've been on table politically and socially for well over a decade now.

Quote:
These armies of bureaucrats serve a corporate system that will quite literally kill us. They are as cold and disconnected as Mengele. They carry out minute tasks. They are docile. Compliant. They obey. They find their self-worth in the prestige and power of the corporation, in the status of their positions and in their career promotions. They assure themselves of their own goodness through their private acts as husbands, wives, mothers and fathers. They sit on school boards. They go to Rotary. They attend church. It is moral schizophrenia. They erect walls to create an isolated consciousness. They make the lethal goals of ExxonMobil or Goldman Sachs or Raytheon or insurance companies possible. They destroy the ecosystem, the economy and the body politic and turn workingmen and -women into impoverished serfs. They feel nothing.


Story here. (note the .org suffix)

And one from a .gov source, just for further evidence.

Quote:
Sacrifice Zones graphically describes what life is like for people of color and poor people who live on the “wrong side of the tracks” and in “throw-away communities” whose residents receive unequal protection, if any protection at all; such communities contain locally unwanted land uses, or LULUs, and industries deposit pollutants just outside the factory gates. Even after more than three decades of environmental justice mobilization and activism, Lerner had hundred of communities from which to choose for his study; there is no shortage of poisoned communities.
parados
 
  3  
Reply Sat 3 Jan, 2015 09:07 am
@Builder,
By the measure of poverty, China has far more people in poverty than the US does.

You don't seem to understand the terms you use.

A full time employee getting SNAP in the US will have a higher standard of living than many full time employees in China.
Builder
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jan, 2015 03:56 pm
@parados,
We're drifting away from the OP.

I have a brother-in-law and one friend who are both regular visitors to China for business purposes, so I'm not relying solely on google here.

There is both affluence, and poverty. The neuvo-riche are earning well above the measured per capita GDP, and this is also the case in the US of A.

Think of Detroit, Michigan as one startling example of the abject failure of free-market capitalism. Services are shot to pieces, and the streets are approaching war-zone status. Debt is being kicked down the road in more ways than one. Political circles are deeply corrupted, and the blame-game is the best game in town.

Conversely, China is investing heavily in infrastructure, and while many are living well-below peceived poverty levels, nobody is without the basics of survival, and whole regions of housing are being built to house the influx of workers to towns from outlying regions now connected by the most impressive high-speed rail network on the planet. Plans are already being made to connect Europe and Alaska with an undersea rail network. That's called planning ahead, and the wise use of collateral.

The US Congress seems more interested in weapons of war, than injecting new life into an aging nation, probably due to the lobbying power of those at the helms of the military industrial machine that is the growth centre of US production.

It's quite sad that people don't see this as a lose-lose situation.

Look at how privatisation and the stranglehold of corporates has corrupted your politcal process and foreign policy making. It's all smoke and mirrors. There is no democracy in the Republic of America, and probably hasn't been for decades. Just flag-waving and misinformation.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jan, 2015 06:31 pm
@parados,
No matter how many facts are presented about the economies of China and the USA, Builder has only one goal; push down the US and build up China.

Some people have blinders that never ceases to disappear.
http://www.ibtimes.com/7-problems-chinas-rise-worlds-largest-economy-will-not-solve-1578566
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jan, 2015 06:39 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Noticed that.

A long time ago.
Builder
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jan, 2015 07:08 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Wow, all seven of those "problems" are mirrored (or worse) in the US, though at least China punishes corruption in their politicians. In the US, they get promoted.

With a completely corporate-owned mass media, and increasing limits on what you can say and do, I guess you're still "free" to wave the flag, if not much else.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jan, 2015 09:22 pm
@Builder,
Quote:
Wow, all seven of those "problems" are mirrored (or worse) in the US, though at least China punishes corruption in their politicians. In the US, they get promoted.
I myself talk about American political corruption, but the fact that you here equate it with Chinese political corruption is yet more evidence that you should be ignored for the reason of idiocy.
Builder
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jan, 2015 03:23 am
@hawkeye10,
Are you living in a cave?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWqovERaCGE
0 Replies
 
Builder
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jan, 2015 04:36 am
@roger,
Quote:
Noticed that.

A long time ago.


And you're still asleep?

CHICAGO — As mayor of the third-largest city in the United States, Rahm Emanuel sits atop a teeming metropolis, headquarters to some of the nation’s biggest companies — Boeing, United Airlines and Archer Daniels Midland — but also blighted by pockets of urban poverty and high rates of gang violence. China could help.

With an assist from one of Chicago’s richest daughters, billionaire businesswoman and Commerce Secretary Penny Pritzker, Emanuel is playing host this week to a huge Chinese government and business delegation led by Vice Premier Wang Yang in the hope that strengthening ties with China will give the town a much-needed economic boost.

The holding of the high-level meeting of the U.S.-China Joint Commission on Commerce and Trade in Chicago highlights Emanuel’s own evolution from trade deal moderate to enthusiast as his city struggles to improve its economic performance. But the unusual venue for this week’s bilateral forum, which usually takes place in Washington or Beijing, also highlights the White House’s efforts to build political support for President Barack Obama’s overall trade agenda as it pushes to conclude two massive trade deals.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2014/12/chicago-china-113627.html#ixzz3Ni7a5Amp
0 Replies
 
Builder
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jan, 2015 04:46 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
No matter how many facts are presented about the economies of China and the USA...


Aah, but your source was blown out of the water, Mr Imposter. You failed to back up your claims, and your site for reference failed at the 101 level; remember?



cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jan, 2015 11:40 am
@Builder,
You just can't claim "it's blown out of the water" without providing credible sources for them. You have no sense on what debate is all about.

Here's my statement about you; 'you're pretty dumb.' You prove it yourself with your idiotic statements. Grow up!
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jan, 2015 07:28 pm
@Builder,
Here's a report from the Guardian, a internationally respected media in the UK.

Quote:
China's reliance on coal reduces life expectancy by 5.5 years, says study
High levels of air pollution will cause 500 million people to lose an aggregate 2.5 billion years from their lives
Air Pollution Attacks Beijing Again : A tourist looks at the Forbidden City as PM25 covers
Heavy smog shrouds Beijing with pollution at hazardous levels. Photograph: Feng Li/Getty Images
Jonathan Kaiman in Beijing
Tuesday 9 July 2013 04.13 EDT

Air pollution causes people in northern China to live an average of 5.5 years shorter than their southern counterparts, according to a study released on Monday which claims to show in unprecedented detail the link between air pollution and life expectancy.

High levels of air pollution in northern China – much of it caused by an over-reliance on burning coal for heat – will cause 500 million people to lose an aggregate 2.5 billion years from their lives, the authors predict in the study, published in the journal the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

The geographic disparity can be traced back to China's Huai River policy which, since it was implemented between 1950 and 1980, has granted free wintertime heating to people living north of the Huai river, a widely-acknowledged dividing line between northern and southern China. Much of that heating comes from the combustion of coal, significantly impacting the region's air quality.

"Using data covering an unusually long timespan – from 1981 through 2000 – the researchers found that air pollution … was about 55% higher north of the river than south of it," the MIT Energy Initiative said in a statement.

"Linking the Chinese pollution data to mortality statistics from 1991 to 2000, the researchers found a sharp difference in mortality rates on either side of the border formed by the Huai River. They also found the variation to be attributable to cardiorespiratory illness, and not to other causes of death."

The researchers, based in Israel, Beijing, and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, gauged the region's air quality according to the established metric of "total suspended particulates (TSP)," representing the concentration of certain airborne particles per cubic meter of air.

The study concluded that long-term exposure to air containing 100 micrograms of TSP per cubic meter "is associated with a reduction in life expectancy at birth of about 3.0 years."

Air pollution has been the subject of widespread public outrage in China since January, when Beijing's air quality index (AQI) – a similar metric to TSP – regularly exceeded 500, the scale's maximum reading, for weeks on end. On 12 January, Beijing's AQI hit a record 755, 30 times higher than levels deemed safe by the World Health Organisation.

Past studies have established a link between air pollution and reduced life expectancy. One recent large-scale study concluded that air pollution contributed to 1.2 million premature deaths in China in 2010.

Yet according to Michael Greenstone, an economics professor at MIT and one of the study's authors, this study is the first to precisely quantify their relationship. "Demonstrating that people die a bit earlier [because of pollution] is interesting and helps establish that pollution is bad," he said. "But the most important question, the next question that needed to be answered, is what's the loss of life expectancy? How much should society be willing to pay to avoid high levels of pollution? This study was structured so we could answer that question."

China's central authorities are keenly aware that environmental degradation has become one of the country's leading causes of social unrest. Last month, China's cabinet revealed 10 new measures intended to combat air pollution, and state media reported that Chinese courts can now impose the death penalty on serious polluters.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jan, 2015 07:32 pm
@Builder,
You wrote,
Quote:
I have a brother-in-law and one friend who are both regular visitors to China for business purposes, so I'm not relying solely on google here.


Therein lies your problem; listening to relatives/friends rather than respected research organizations that have built up their credibility over years or providing reliable, peer reviewed, facts.

Builder
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jan, 2015 04:21 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
...respected research organizations that have built up their credibility over years or providing reliable, peer reviewed, facts.


Hahahah, that's why he uses a proxy for his website? Too funny, dude. Failed at 101 level.

How's the Dow holding out? Dropped 330 points on the back of oil price uncertainty.

Do you know why the oil price is plunging?
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  3  
Reply Tue 6 Jan, 2015 08:41 am
@Builder,
Why are we drifting away? Because you can't admit that your statement was factually incorrect? China does not enjoy a higher standard of living than the US. That is a fact.

Of course there is affluence and poverty in both countries. There is also affluence and poverty in just about every country on the earth. You have to measure the average or the mean standard of living if you want to compare countries. You can't compare the total GDP of countries and claim that is the comparison of standard of living. That is ridiculous.

If you want to discuss countries, you should start from an honest standard. Otherwise all your conclusions are suspect.
0 Replies
 
 

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