19
   

Shep Smith: Journalists are not the enemy of the people

 
 
Real Music
 
  3  
Reply Thu 9 Aug, 2018 05:18 pm
@livinglava,
Quote:
You can disagree with Trump or anyone else simply by explaining what you understand them to mean and then explaining why you disagree with them.
The job of the press is to investigate and seek out the truth. Then report what they find to the public. If there are any unintentional errors, then report the corrections. What you fail to point out is that the truth is what makes Trump look bad. The truth is what Trump don't want the news to report. Trump lies to the public EVERY SINGLE day. The truth is Trump is a habitual liar. If it weren't for the FACT that Trump is by far the worst president in modern history, then maybe the press could find more good things to report on Trump. Plain and simple, Trump hates the truth and he also hates anyone who reports the truth. Especially when the truth is about him. Trump calls the TRUTH fake news, when in actuality the things that comes out his mouth is never ending constant deliberate LIES. That crap does not fly.

So when Trump says Fake News is the enemy of the people.
What he is really saying is that the TRUTH is fake news.
You can believe the lies that Trump constantly utters from his mouth if you choose to.
I prefer to listen to the TRUTH.
The TRUTH is that Trump is a deliberate boldface LIAR.
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Reply Thu 9 Aug, 2018 06:10 pm
@Real Music,
Trump actually lies more than 6 times every day. He's a pathological liar. Politifact has kept a log on all of Trump's lies. It's shameful that so many people supports this liar, scammer, wife cheater, and bigot. https://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/
Real Music
 
  2  
Reply Thu 9 Aug, 2018 06:33 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Trump actually lies more than 6 times every day. He's a pathological liar. Politifact has kept a log on all of Trump's lies. It's shameful that so many people supports this liar, scammer, wife cheater, and bigot.

You are absolutely correct. There is no possible way to dispute the fact that Trump is pathological habitual LIAR and straight up RACIST. There is no possible way for this to be disputed. There is video. There are statements. There are speeches. There are interviews. There are press conferences. There are tweets. The evidence that Trump is a boldface LIAR is everywhere. The evidence that Trump is straight up RACIST is everywhere. The evidence that Trump is a heartless selfish person is everywhere.

If anyone wishes to sell their soul and try to deny the evidence that is literally EVERYWHERE, that is their right to do so.
0 Replies
 
livinglava
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 9 Aug, 2018 07:27 pm
@Real Music,
Real Music wrote:

Quote:
You can disagree with Trump or anyone else simply by explaining what you understand them to mean and then explaining why you disagree with them.
The job of the press is to investigate and seek out the truth. Then report what they find to the public. If there are any unintentional errors, then report the corrections. What you fail to point out is that the truth is what makes Trump look bad. The truth is what Trump don't want the news to report. Trump lies to the public EVERY SINGLE day. The truth is Trump is a habitual liar. If it weren't for the FACT that Trump is by far the worst president in modern history, then maybe the press could find more good things to report on Trump. Plain and simple, Trump hates the truth and he also hates anyone who reports the truth. Especially when the truth is about him. Trump calls the TRUTH fake news, when in actuality the things that comes out his mouth is never ending constant deliberate LIES. That crap does not fly.

So when Trump says Fake News is the enemy of the people.
What he is really saying is that the TRUTH is fake news.
You can believe the lies that Trump constantly utters from his mouth if you choose to.
I prefer to listen to the TRUTH.
The TRUTH is that Trump is a deliberate boldface LIAR.


It's really not possible to discuss any of these things critically at such a general level. You have to take a specific example and analyze the details, why some people think something is true or not and why. Then you can unpack what is fact and what is ideological spin. Otherwise, you just end up with people judging each others' 'facts' as spin because facts are usually selected and framed in a way that supports one ideology or another.
cicerone imposter
 
  4  
Reply Thu 9 Aug, 2018 07:45 pm
@livinglava,
You're being very generous concerning Donald Trump's honesty. He lies most of the time, so why bother trying to figure out which of his statements are true? According to Politifact, he tells the truth 5% of the time. 14% if you include "mostly true." All the rest are tossups in the lies category. I don't waste my time trying to figure out Trump: I just ignore him. His wall, tariff and space station are stupid ideas because those billions of dollars can be spent for more useful purposes including fixing and maintaining our infrastructure. Many of our bridges are not safe. The poor and many middle class families can use some assistance for shelter and food. Trump's attempts to defeat ACA is inhuman as well as his separation of children from their parents at the border. He is ignorant and dangerous. https://www.businessinsider.com/most-dangerous-bridges-america-2017-5
https://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/
0 Replies
 
OldGrumpy
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 9 Aug, 2018 11:47 pm
@livinglava,
Quote:
The job of the press is to investigate and seek out the truth.


are you really really really sure about this?
0 Replies
 
revelette1
 
  4  
Reply Fri 10 Aug, 2018 09:16 am
@livinglava,
Quote:
The problem is that the press really isn't free. You can tell by the way they spin things they disagree with instead of analyzing and discussing them.


You have an odd notion of what is meant by the free press. It doesn't mean what the press is free of or not free of. It means the Press should be free to report the news as they see it, not as the government or people want to them to report it.
OldGrumpy
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 10 Aug, 2018 09:26 am
@revelette1,
Quote:
You have an odd notion of what is meant by the free press. It doesn't mean what the press is free of or not free of. It means the Press should be free to report the news as they see it, not as the government or people want to them to report it.


Hmmm, be aware that the so-called free pess is filled with c.i.a agents.
There is NO free mainstream press. far far far from it.
0 Replies
 
revelette1
 
  2  
Reply Fri 10 Aug, 2018 09:28 am
Quote:
It's really not possible to discuss any of these things critically at such a general level. You have to take a specific example and analyze the details, why some people think something is true or not and why. Then you can unpack what is fact and what is ideological spin. Otherwise, you just end up with people judging each others' 'facts' as spin because facts are usually selected and framed in a way that supports one ideology or another.


Ok, out of a seeming million, take the Presidents remarks at Brussels. The following on CNN looks at the President's claims in the video sourced at CNN.

Fact-checking Trump's NATO claims

Quote:
In this video, CNN’s Jake Tapper looks at some of the false and misleading statements that President Donald Trump made at a press conference after the NATO summit in Brussels.

Trump wrongly claimed that the United States is paying as much as 90 percent of the cost of operating the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. In reality, the U.S. share of the commonly funded NATO budget is currently just over 22 percent, according to the most recent figures from NATO.

The president also claimed that the U.S. defense budget is 4.2 percent of the nation’s gross domestic product. It hasn’t been above 4 percent since fiscal year 2012, according to the Defense Department and the White House Office of Management and Budget. The Defense Department said it was 3.1 percent this year, while NATO estimates it is 3.5 percent “according to an agreed definition of defence expenditure.”

Trump also again got his election history wrong when he said that Ronald Reagan lost Wisconsin in 1984 — which was the year that Reagan won every state except Minnesota, the home of his Democratic opponent, Walter Mondale.



FACTCHECK.ORG

The last two for a careless president who seems to go off script, could have just been mistaken. But the first, given the subject matter and the ill will he has towards NATO and the reason he was ranting on about our NATO allies, and given the vast discrepancy between 90 percent and 20 percent, it was a deliberate distortion of facts for his own purpose.

0 Replies
 
livinglava
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 10 Aug, 2018 09:36 am
@revelette1,
revelette1 wrote:

Quote:
The problem is that the press really isn't free. You can tell by the way they spin things they disagree with instead of analyzing and discussing them.


You have an odd notion of what is meant by the free press. It doesn't mean what the press is free of or not free of. It means the Press should be free to report the news as they see it, not as the government or people want to them to report it.

If free people abuse their freedom by submitting to non-governmental biases, they are no more free than if they were working for the government to create government-sponsored propaganda. In fact, the government is largely a puppet of non-governmental interests at this point anyway, so you could say that the media is the propaganda wing of the non-governmental/corporate government, and the government itself is the governmental wing.

The challenge is to achieve independence from business interests, political/factional interests, and otherwise biased thought-orientations. Having a free press means that the press is free to investigate and report all aspects of society without using their publications to propagate interests. Freedom of speech also allows for propaganda, but the free press should be separate from that.
revelette1
 
  2  
Reply Fri 10 Aug, 2018 09:49 am
@livinglava,
Regardless of your own personal version of the Freedom of Press, the Founding Fathers didn't view it as you do.

Original Meaning: Freedom of Speech or of the Press
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Fri 10 Aug, 2018 10:11 am
@livinglava,
It simply means the press is able to report freely on any subject.
0 Replies
 
livinglava
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 10 Aug, 2018 11:09 am
@revelette1,
The founding fathers were against factionalism. This website describes their views from a critical standpoint, believing they were wrong and that partisan factions are now a functional aspect of democracy:
https://www.shmoop.com/political-parties/founding-fathers-political-parties.html

This has nothing to do with personal views. It has to do with the reality of freedom from collective/social pressures to propagate bias. The founding fathers were aware of that and they were in favor of independent thinking and free participation in speech and democracy.
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Aug, 2018 04:50 pm
@livinglava,
While I follow your logic regarding freedom of the press, and even think the concept has merit - it's not the current state of 'freedom of the press'...and when combined with your lack of acknowledgement regarding trumps lies, your position on the actual topic becomes unclear.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Fri 10 Aug, 2018 04:54 pm
@vikorr,
Trump purposely lies to keep his base. The morals of our country is being exposed for who we really are. Republicans support Trump by over 80%. That's not going to change any time soon. I'm not sure there is any solution.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/28/opinion/sunday/why-trump-supporters-dont-mind-his-lies.html
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 10 Aug, 2018 05:12 pm
@engineer,

I'm getting impatient. I have answered this exact citation over and over. Try reading your own reference, for God's sake. He says in your citation that the "fake news" is the enemy of the people, not the news in general. I don't expect much of Democrats, but you might at least read your own citations.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 10 Aug, 2018 05:14 pm
@neptuneblue,
neptuneblue wrote:
Seriously???
Seriously, what? "He called "fake news" the enemy of the people (and he was right), not the media in general or as an institution. You know, I love the police but there are bad cops. Get it?
neptuneblue
 
  3  
Reply Fri 10 Aug, 2018 05:17 pm
@Brandon9000,
When Fox News is the only "credible" news source according to the President, the only "fake" thing is trump.
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Aug, 2018 05:20 pm
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:
He’s called the “fake news” the enemy of the people. Several times.

He’s then called CNN, MSNBC, The Washington Post, and several other networks/newspapers “fake news”.

If the fake news is the enemy of the people and these networks and newspapers are fake news...well do you need a logic class to finish the statement?

He has accused particular individuals and particular news outlets of dispersing untrue or significantly slanted news to further their personal agendas. He has called them fake news. Surely anyone who routinely presents false or distorted news to further an agenda is no friend to the people. That is not equivalent to calling journalists in general the enemy of the people. So, according to you, after you finished that logic class, someone who thinks a particular policeman or a particular police department is bad hates the police in general? That is false.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Aug, 2018 05:22 pm
@neptuneblue,
Even fox is factchecking #45 now. I was amazed.

(posted it on the #45/contemporary events thread)
0 Replies
 
 

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