Shep Smith: Journalists are not the enemy of the people

Quote:

livinglava wrote to: neptuneblue

Do you question the information you read and assume that it's true only tentatively, or do you believe it all as if there are no political-economic interests controlling information flows to the public? Do you not realize there are political conflicts that lead people to propagate certain points of view and demonize those who obstruct their political agendas?

First I see what is actually being reported. I then try and corroborate what is being reported with multiple sources. I also determined if the reports actually explains how they came to their conclusions. The last thing is I determine the relevance to the story.

Let me give example of relevance. Let's say the big news story is the Philadelphia Eagles had just won the Super Bowl. Let's say that this is the actual news story. Then while reporting this news story, the news report that the Cleveland Browns failed to make the playoff this season. Yes, it is true and factual that the Cleveland Browns failed to make the playoff this season, but that has no relevance to the actually story. The actual story is the Eagles had just won the Super Bowl.

On the other hand, sometimes I will accept news to be true without question. Some examples. It is currently raining outside. There was a attempted bank robbery. There is a tornado siting. The new highway will be opening tomorrow. Due to a vehicle accident the highway is backed up. My point is there are sometimes when I will accept the news to be true without question.

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@livinglava,

I've already answered these questions.

You continue to deflect and detract from the thread's subject.

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@revelette1,

I is quite apparently easy for you to believe you "know" the beliefs and motives of others, simply because you have fixed ideas, independent of the evidence, and are apparently impervious to fact which contradict your prejudgments. Evidently you believe that virtue is all on one side, and the other is irredeemably evil.

That is the essence of narrow minded prejudice.

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@georgeob1,

Quote:

I is quite apparently easy for you to believe you "know" the beliefs and motives of others, simply because you have fixed ideas, independent of the evidence, and are apparently impervious to fact which contradict your prejudgments. Evidently you believe that virtue is all on one side, and the other is irredeemably evil.

That is the essence of narrow minded prejudice.

I see you are describing Donald Trump and Fox News host Sean Hannity.
Yes it absolutely true that both Donald Trump and Sean Hannity are both HORRIBLE people.

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@Real Music,

I'll agree that Hannity is a single-minded propagandist. I don't know about Donald Trump. I am inclined to see him as a very pragmatic individual, and not as much an ideologue as was, for example Barack Obama

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@Real Music,

Real Music wrote:

I see you are describing Donald Trump and Fox News host Sean Hannity.
Yes it absolutely true that both Donald Trump and Sean Hannity are both HORRIBLE people.

Great news reporting.

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@georgeob1,

Quote:

I is quite apparently easy for you to believe you "know" the beliefs and motives of others, simply because you have fixed ideas, independent of the evidence, and are apparently impervious to fact which contradict your prejudgments. Evidently you believe that virtue is all on one side, and the other is irredeemably evil.

That is the essence of narrow minded prejudice.

You have no clue about me and what I believe. Your opinion about me came out of thin air; not from any facts or evidence from anything I have said on this thread.

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@revelette1,

Not true. I formed it based on the posts you have written here.

You have repeatedly asserted that you know the beliefs and motives, particularly of those you oppose, and with only superficial knowledge of their individual characters here, painting one side as "evil" and the other as "good'.

On the contrary I have suggested that some police actions against blacks are well merited, and some likely not. Unfortunately the organized resistance focuses, intended or not, on all police actions. The result has been a collapse of police morale and enforcement particularly evident in Chicago and Oakland and other cities as well. There are also some serious White racists and even a few Black ones as well. A new form of intolerance is growing up in this country in which anyone criticizing obviously exploitive Black leaders such as Al Sharpton., as being necessarily racist because of it. Similarly much of the criticism of movements like Black Lives Matter, is indeed racist but some is not. The right answer here is quite obvious - judging individual people by the content of their characters and not on the color of their skin as MLK so aptly put it.

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@georgeob1,

Quote:

I'll agree that Hannity is a single-minded propagandist. I don't know about Donald Trump. I am inclined to see him as a very pragmatic individual, and not as much an ideologue as was, for example Barack Obama

We definitely disagree with each other.
I see Sean Hannity as single minded HORRIBLE despicable hateful person.
I see Donald Trump as a simple minded HORRIBLE despicable hateful racist person.
I see Barack Obama as a pragmatic intelligent respectable and honorable person.
We obviously don't agree on anything. Smile

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@georgeob1,

Quote:

On the contrary I have suggested that some police actions against blacks are well merited, and some likely not.

That should apply to all citizens regardless of race or gender.

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@OldGrumpy,

Four people have been poisoned in England with a chemical agent well known to be a compound developed only by the Russians. Do you think the poisoning was faked, or the Brits lied about it, or are you only unhappy because this particular administration even after dragging their feet decided it was finally time to admit all of our allies and the US have scientific proof that the Russians are hostile? And the Russians are more than willing to poison people, they just hope they won’t get caught. This is not secret information concealed from Americans. I’m puzzled that a concerned citizen wouldn’t at least look into history, and research the facts. Maybe you folks are waiting for Rush Limbaugh to discuss it on his radio abomination.

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@georgeob1,

Quote:

Not true. I formed it based on the posts you have written here.

I formed a different opinion of what she was saying from the same posts...so revelette may be right.

That said, I agree with you that you can't use the actions of individuals within a whole, to judge the whole. Nor can you judge a persons whole ideas by some of his/her ideas - each should be judged on merit. Such nonsense approaches ares the foundation of racism and other nonsense...but lots of people chanting 'racist' don't see that.

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@georgeob1,

The only post I can remotely figure you are talking about is when I was describing the beliefs of White Supremist and the Black Lives Matter. Both groups have said what their beliefs are, I posted a link to the homepage of BLM and a piece from the Washington Post which quoted the guy who was responsible for organizing todays White Civil Rights rally which fortunately ended up a big flop. (Which was the context of both groups--an article about the rally which was held today.) And yes, I do think one side BLM have legitimate grievances' because of unfair justice they have received in our justice system. I am not saying every time a black person gets arrested or killed it is always unfair, but enough to make their concerns legitimate. On the other hand I see nothing good in white Supremist and I am not ashamed of it.

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@georgeob1,

georgeob1 wrote:

revelette1 wrote:

Your own words suggest you, a priori, reject points of view other than your own. That's certainly OK as long as you are asserting your own opinion, but to suggest that is entirely objective is ludicrous. Moreover you prejudge the innocence of advocates for Blacks and the guilt of those who do the same for whites. THAT is Racism.

The truth is that humans of all races are made of the same fabric, and that differences between them are most often based on individual characteristics, and in some cases differences attributable to culture.

George, I suspect you have a limited amount of experience on what life is like for us unannointed souls. I really don’t mean to be insulting but I doubt you have lived in the South (growing up during the early Civil rights movement) or attended a school as the public had to come to grips with integration. Many of us are actually white people who as very young people witnessed humilitiating offenses, maybe not violent, but horrible things that made your 10 year old cheeks turn red with shame. I’m sure you never participated in these ugly events, I just think you never witnessed one when you were powerless to help. It leaves you with a shame that’s hard to explain....we knew it was awful but there was nothing we could do....it’s the excuse grown people use...it robs you of your self worth. Again, I’m not saying you because apparently you are lucky enough to have escaped any personal experience with ugly threatening racism. I can not forget the sense of helplessness and paralyzing fear I felt when a group of young teen boys screamed at a black girl no older than me, calling her the n-word with red rage filled faces.......there were no adults around to stop it, and I was too frightened.....but the sense of shame and regret has never left me.

The point of sharing this personal story is to hopefully help you understand that those of us who witnessed cruel and racist treatment have an instinct for the dog whistles that today’s racists use. It doesn’t mean any of us mere mortals can read the minds of others, it just means we have seen it and we recognize it when it happens. Don’t think of it as narrow minded, try to remember that perhaps you just haven’t had the same exposure. Some other time, I’ll tell you about the times people whispered awful comments about Jews because they assumed all of us white Christians think Jews are lesser folks. It’s always a surprise and terribly distressing. I might not be able to read the minds of our Jewish brothers and sisters, but I’m completely tuned into the white Catholic and Protestant innuendo.

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@glitterbag,

glitterbag wrote:

Four people have been poisoned in England with a chemical agent well known to be a compound developed only by the Russians. Do you think the poisoning was faked, or the Brits lied about it, or are you only unhappy because this particular administration even after dragging their feet decided it was finally time to admit all of our allies and the US have scientific proof that the Russians are hostile? And the Russians are more than willing to poison people, they just hope they won’t get caught. This is not secret information concealed from Americans. I’m puzzled that a concerned citizen wouldn’t at least look into history, and research the facts. Maybe you folks are waiting for Rush Limbaugh to discuss it on his radio abomination.

Have you thought about how ridiculous it would be if some non-US people would talk in this way about 'Americans?' What if some people in the middle east would say, 'Americans are known to attack terrorist suspects and that is proof that Americans are hostile?' Don't you see that the US is subdivided into countless individuals and sub-groupings with varying relationships with each other and with the president/government?

You are talking about a nerve agent as being 'Russian,' developed and used 'by the Russians' but who exactly are you referring to? Putin himself? KGB agents? Terrorists with Russian identity/citizenship?

Think back to when there were anthrax powder attacks coming in envelopes via the USPS. Was anyone talking about 'Americans developed anthrax as a biological weapon' or 'Americans are known to use anthrax powder as a weapon?' No, there were very specific investigations to uncover exactly who did what. Blaming things on entire governments or classifications/nationalities of people is basically just sloppy, naive, and racist.

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@glitterbag,

I'm the son of Irish Immigrants who fled Ireland as adolescents in the aftermath of the revolution and civil war ( soon after De Valera & co assassinated a Michael Collins). We lived in Detroit where ( I suspect much like New York at that time) the city was divided into ethnic enclaves populated by Italians, Irish,Poles, Czechs & Slovaks Greeks, Danes, German and Ashkenazi Jews ( distinct groups), Syrians, as well as Blacks, and what we called Hillbillies, who migrated there during WWII. Each had fairly well defined neighborhoods with well known boundaries, and there was a general level of friction - some friendly, some not - among and between them. If you were asked "What are you", and answered "American" you had to be tough. Such group identities were the norm. Amidst all that, it was hard to single out one particular struggle from the others. One from any group had to compete and get smart early. Suburbs like Grosse Point and Bloomfield Hills were for wealthy assimilated Protestants, envied and detested by all.

My only experience with what you described occurred during Naval Academy summer training in Pensacola Fla,. when three of us, in uniform, went into a restaurant. One of us , Tony Moore, was black, and after being seated for a while, he was asked to leave. ( A then last vestige of the Jim Crow era there) The other two of us became indignant and started to make a scene. Tony asked us to calm down and just leave. We went back to the Air Station and I made a complaint to the Base Commander who expressed sympathy, but said that's the way it is. I was angry about that. Tony went on to beat me in the Intramural middleweight Boxing finals the next Fall. ( We're still friends.)

My strong impression is that there was then more willingness in the ethnic stews of cities like Detroit to judge people by their individual characteristics and tolerate superficial and group differences, and a good deal less hypocrisy about it all than there is in America today. Now if anyone expresses any disapproval of anyone in a favored group he/she is immediately labelled with one of the several "isims" so fashionable now.

I also notice that the most intense incidence of this new intolerance in the area where I live now is among the most intensely modern liberals of Marin County, North of the Golden Gate ( home of Barbara Boxer), and among the IT types on the Peninsula -- these are the most segregated areas in the Bay Area ! The complacent hypocrisy here is truly breathtaking. My impression is that Annapolis isn't very different - at least when compared to nearby Baltimore ( I travel there frequently.)

Individual characteristics and behavior matter a great deal. The relatively superficial group distinctions and identities, so emphasized today, don't, and the presumption that they do is itself highly prejudicial.. Judgments based on the actions of individual people of any such group do not necessarily mean any of the fashionable "isms" that infest our culture. In the same way the presumption that they do is itself a vivid manifestation of the very evils implied by the "Ism" labels themselves. This new intolerance is no remedy for the other forms of the intolerance it presumes to oppose,

The perversity of the present situation is a bit like something out of Orwell's 1984 or the Cultural revolution in China. Both involve the tyrannical application of false narratives used for political purposes generally different from the issues at hand.

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@georgeob1,

georgeob1 wrote:

Individual characteristics and behavior matter a great deal. The relatively superficial group distinctions and identities, so emphasized today, don't, and the presumption that they do is itself highly prejudicial.. Judgments based on the actions of individual people of any such group do not necessarily mean any of the fashionable "isms" that infest our culture. In the same way the presumption that they do is itself a vivid manifestation of the very evils implied by the "Ism" labels themselves. This new intolerance is no remedy for the other forms of the intolerance it presumes to oppose,

What you're describing here is complex to understand. People don't realize that there are bad people who will accuse you of being sexist/racist/etc. if you don't accept the bad things they do.

But really this is a natural continuation of the old culture of racism/sexism/groupism where people's individual characteristics were generalized as group characteristics and attributed to them at that level.

Once upon a time, good people had to deal with prejudice based on group identity and now bad people get away with being bad by shifting the focus away from behavior to identity-based prejudice.

And don't forget that group-attribution and prejudice is far from dead.

What's more is that being bad seems to be quite popular for individuals in all categories; not that it ever subsides really. It's human nature.

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@georgeob1,

I’m the granddaughter of Irish immigrants, born in Baltimore which is more like Detroit (however it was also a melting pot like New York but that’s where the similarity ends).

Baltimore also had distinct neighborhoods and the same rivalries existed between various ethnic groups....the difference in Baltimore was the number of Catholics (Polish, Italian, Irish, Greek Orthodox, Lithuanian and others that I can’t remember right now) who attended the same Catholic schools, played sports and were in and out of the friends houses. So by the time we children came along, most kids had a grandmother who spoke broken English and we experienced wonderful food, glorious weddings and fantastic friendships.

The only group that wasn’t allowed in were the black Americans, and that’s the part I think you may be missing. It’s wonderful you saw the injustice of a black
navy officer asked to leave a restaurant in Florida.......I truly wish that was the worst thing I ever saw when I was far too young to do anything. I can’t begin to pretend I can know how racism has affected black women in my age group, but I do know what white people said and did when they felt free to engage in bad behaviour......and I recognize the whiff of racism when it wafts over. Having these experiences doesn’t make a person narrow minded unless they are stone racists. Being able to recognize it and discourage it is at least a tiny step for a more inclusive society.

But sincere props for figuring out a way to disparage ‘liberals’ while you explained your life.

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Now, straight up, I will say the following is not meant to be unbiased news, it's a liberal website with liberal views and a liberal way of looking at everything. However, it has links to check out quotes, statements and/or facts.

Trump acknowledges it’s dishonorable to attack media during speech to troops, then does it anyway

Quote:

“We’ve created almost 4 million news jobs since the election — a number that the media in back would never have said would be possible, if during the campaign,” Trump said. “I’m so proud of myself, I didn’t call them the ‘fake news media.’ I said to myself, ‘I will not today in front of our great armed forces call them fake news.’ We know the truth, but we won’t say it today.”

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@revelette1,

Trump loves to say "fake news," but have never explained why. Trump lies most of the time according to Politifact. Who do we trust? Politifact or Trump? Easy answer. This is the same guy who has been a bigot and liar all his life. He now wants to recreate history. It's not going to happen.
Trump's approval/disapproval ratings. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/

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Shep Smith: Journalists are not the enemy of the people

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