Ban "Cop Killer" Assault Pistol

Thomas
I am not advocating the banning of all guns. But I would hope we could somehow strenghten the rules for sale and ownership and limit the type of guns and amunition available to the public.

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nimh wrote:

Unsurprisingly, I agree with Au. The "law-abiding citizens" thing, that suggests that proliferating guns are no problem as long as its just the average, normal, law-abiding gentlefolk that have them is IMO a red herring. The series of school shootings that have rocked America were done by the children of exactly such law-abiding, average gentlefolk.

If the "law abiding citizens" thing is a red herring, so is tougher gun control as a means of preventing Columbine-like school shootings. Germany does have much tougher gun control than America, and we still had several such shootings. (Though only one of them, the one in Erfurt, was as bad as Columbine.)

au1929 wrote:

But I would hope we could somehow strenghten the rules for sale and ownership and limit the type of guns and amunition available to the public.

I don't think we can. We can strengthen the rules to limit the types of guns and ammunition legally avaliable to the public. But this doesn't deter violent criminals much -- and these are the people whose hands we most urgently want to keep those guns out of. Those who are out to kill, won't draw a line at illegaly purchasing or making a gun. Law-abiding citizens who hunt, or keep a gun around for their own safety, or like to affirm their Second Amendment rights, are not the part of the public you want to keep from purchasing a high-powered gun.

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Thomas
I will leave you with one thought. Putting a lock on your front door does not assure that you will not be subject to a burglary. However it is a deterrent.

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Guns would not be for home defence (unless someone comes in with a gun) I think it is the same for all states (I know it is for MN, Ill, Neb, and Col.
The Law says that if someone comes into your house you must use equal or lesser force. so that means that you may not shoot a guy if he is comming at you to kill you with a knife (in your house) that is a stupid rule!
so the gun would not be for house defence or home security it would be for the street.

Or in the case of homeland security I would think you should use it.

Also I think someone already said this but I will say it again. "If they ban this 'cop killer' then the only people who would have it are the people who would kill cops!"

--So why ban it?

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Swift wrote

Quote:

Also I think someone already said this but I will say it again. "If they ban this 'cop killer' then the only people who would have it are the people who would kill cops!"

By the same token why make laws since the criminal will break them in any event. Or as indicated previously, why lock your door? The second story man will break in regardless.

Someone once told me locks are only good to keep the law abiding out.

The reality is an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

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.
What firearms and ammunition are you going to ban that are going to have an impact on crime? If someone wants to kill a lot of people they can do it with pretty much the same results whether you leave them with an AR-15 or a 12 gauge shotgun.

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Ivory
That is for the experts to decide not I. And by experts I do not mean the NRA.
I should think all the automatic weapons be banned and made illegal to own. They certainly are not needed for hunting or recreational use. Their only purpose is for the killing of people.
And as was recently revealed we need tighter controls on the eligibility to buy and own firearms.

Every small step IMO taken that may save a life is a step in the right direction.

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au1929 wrote:

I will leave you with one thought. Putting a lock on your front door does not assure that you will not be subject to a burglary. However it is a deterrent.

You won't get any argument from me on this. Only on your contention that gun control, not guns, are the lock in your metaphor.

You can argue that the World Trade Center would still be standing if stricter arms controls had kept Al Quaeda from bringing box cutters onto those plains. I can argue, just as reasonably, that the World Trade Center would still be standing if more generous arms regulations had allowed the passengers to be armed. Nimh can argue that those kids at Columbine High School could be in college right now if they hadn't been able to buy arms. I can argue, just as reasonably, that they could also be in college right now if they had been armed and could shoot back at the snipers. The question is, what is the tradeoff that minimizes overall violence? The evidence, so far as I've seen it, suggests that the correlation between violence and the toughness of gun control is weak to nonexistent in the United States. And without a clear correlation, I prefer to err on the direction of giving regular citizens more freedom to bear arms.

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.
Au, to deny automatic weaponry to the civilian populace we make our potential Militia ineffective and the America of future generations more vulenerable to subjugation. This is extremely unconstitutional and wrong. A few lives saved by gun control mean nothing compared to the nightmare of a subjugated America.

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Once again we have someone arguing about gun control who doesn't know the difference between a semi and a full automatic weapon. Tell me you know the difference au.

As far as tighter controls, I think that is simply due to the fact that DHS wanted to keep the list of suspected terrorists a secret. Did no one think of that? Ahmed goes down to Wal-Mart and finds out he can't buy a shotgun because he's on a terror watch list....

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For this once, cjhsa is right. Automatic weapons already are illegal in the hands of civilians. That's a Federal law. No private person may purchase or possess a fully automatic weapon, except with a special Federal permit which is issued only to particular persons (e.g. legitimate collectors) who meet certain standards and have been investigated and vetted to a fare-thee-well by the FBI. When the average person speaks of 'automatic' weapons, he or she usually is referring to semi-automatic weapons which hunters certainly do use. The only feature which makes a weapon semi-automatic is that it ejects a spent shell automatically, without any need to do it manually by working a bolt or level or pump. The advantage is that, in target shooting, say, it helps the shooter maintain his sight picture of the target. Most modern weapons are semi-automatic.

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cjhsa
Automatic or semi automatic the clips that hold x number of bullets should IMO be banned. And guns that can be converted to allow for those clips should also be banned.

Ivory
Again I don't buy your contention that we have guns to stage a revolution.

And yes I know about the second amendment. Citizens have the right to bear arms. The government however has the right to specify type as well as to place requirements relative to purchase and control.

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.
What is the purpose of a Militia if not to be there in case of Domestic or Foreign tyranny in America? How can you say that we will never be in a time where the civilian populace is threatened by tyranny?

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Merry Andrew
The federal law banning the sale of semi-automatic assault weapons, known as the federal assault weapons ban, was passed as part of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994. President Clinton signed it into law on September 13, 1994.

However, the assault weapons ban will expire ("sunset") in September 2004 unless Congress and President George W. Bush renew it. That means that AK47s and other semi-automatic assault weapons could begin flooding our streets again, as the weapons of choice of gang members, drug dealers and other dangerous criminals.

It did sunset.

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.

Quote:

That means that AK47s and other semi-automatic assault weapons could begin flooding our streets again, as the weapons of choice of gang members, drug dealers and other dangerous criminals.

And the predicted epidemic as yet to occur. Come to think of it, an armed neighborhood is the greatest defense against gangs. Their casualties would be enormous if their victims continually fought back and in numbers greater than theirs.

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Ivory
You are beating a dead horse. The minutemen were disbanded about 200 years ago. I gave you my opinion. Accept it or not as you please.

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au1929 wrote:

Swift wrote

Quote:
Also I think someone already said this but I will say it again. "If they ban this 'cop killer' then the only people who would have it are the people who would kill cops!"

By the same token why make laws since the criminal will break them in any event. Or as indicated previously, why lock your door? The second story man will break in regardless.

So using your own logic here in this thread the obvious solution would be to ban all houses?

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au1929 wrote:

However, the assault weapons ban will expire ("sunset") in September 2004 unless Congress and President George W. Bush renew it. That means that AK47s and other semi-automatic assault weapons could begin flooding our streets again, as the weapons of choice of gang members, drug dealers and other dangerous criminals.

and if it hadn't sunset, the drug dealers would have pointed their web browsers at Amazon.com and purchase a do-it-yourself book on how to home-make a submachine gun from standard metal parts. I see your point that a ban on sales is a deterrent even if it isn't a very good one. But it strikes me as naive that the so-called assault weapans ban should actually have kept drug gangsters from getting their hands on guns.

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Fishin
I will bite maybe we should ban people. After all guns don't kill people, people kill people. Question

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Thomas
From what little I know about it. The law had many shortcomings. It needed strengthening rather than being let to expire.

Somehow I cannot buy the thesis that since the criminals have this firepower it makes no sense to ban any type of weapon. Ivory would give everyone a weapon and let the most powerful win.

I am curious what if any gun laws are in effect in Germany.

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Ban "Cop Killer" Assault Pistol

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