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The Ten Commandments in the courtroom

 
 
Eorl
 
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 03:44 am
Whether or not the Ten Commandments should be allowed to be displayed in an american courtroom is to be heard by the Supreme Court today. Thoughts?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 2,940 • Replies: 43
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Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 06:10 am
The Ten Commandments are one of the cornerstones of the Judeo-Christian tradition. Most of the people in the United States are of that tradition, but not all.

I would object to the Ten Commandments being displayed in any government building for the following reasons:

Religious symbolism of any kind, IMO, no matter how universally accepted, is not appropriate in government buildings.

Even though the Ten Commandments are a symbol of the tradition of a vast majority of American citizens, it is not part of the tradition of all citizens. To display this is to exclude Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, Wiccans, atheists and agnostics, etc.
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BlueMonkey
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 09:29 am
It does not exclude anyone.

How does it? Are the views that the Ten portray wrong? Or are they just being hated upon because they are the Ten?

Anyway they removed a bible that was in front of a court house here in Houston and then weeks later allowed a Religious Convention to go to the Toyota Center. In other words if you can pay your allowed to show case your religion but if it is just a free space in front of a court house then the City is No no can't do that.

I see that as a double standard. Either all or none--there should be no grey area.
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Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 09:46 am
Blue Monkey- Let me get this straight. Are you saying that a religious convention went to the Toyota Center? I have no familiarity with the Toyota center, but I would assume that it is a private convention hall. If an organization paid for a private space, of course there is no problem. It is up to the organization and the management of the convention hall to strike a deal that is mutually acceptable.

It is showcasing a religious symbol in a PUBLIC space, paid for with taxpayer monies, with which I have an objection.
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Bekaboo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 12:22 pm
I think it's a difficult one... I think the world is too PC by half and i doubt many people would be offended by having the 10 commandments displayed tbh... but clearly if they've been getting complaints...
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ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 01:56 pm
Yes several the ten commandments are wrong for modern society (whether they were ever right is another question). I think the people trying to remove the commandments from courtrooms are technically correct, but I can help wondering if there is something more important for all this energy.

But I have always proposed a compromise. Let's get rid of the ten commandments in favor of a more recent part of the Bible.

Matthew 5 wrote:


What say you all, would anyone object to this Scripture on courtroom walls?
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roger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 02:00 pm
Give up, guys. Courthouses are full of things like lawyers, judges, and politicians. The Ten Commandments include injuctions such as, Thou Shalt Not Steal. There's a certain incompatibility, no?
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Anonymous
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 02:15 pm
I think that it just depends on your perspective of what they symbolize. Some see it as a Christian symbol, repressing their own, not-as-popular religion, and want it removed. Their reasoning is that it's a public, federal building, so placing the Ten Commandments there violates Separation of Church and State. The government is endorsing the Ten Commandments as the religion, thus repressing others who do not believe in them.

I, however, have a different (yet secular) view on the matter. The founding fathers based most of the Constitution's principles from Christian principles (i.e. the Ten Commandments). The Ten Commandments became a foundation of our country. It being displayed in courthouses simply symbolizes the courts' duty: To uphold these principles. While the government is supposed to be secular, it still has basic moral values for its citizens. Most of these also happen to be on the Ten Commandments. Just because a lot of these values are listed on the Ten Commandments does not mean that they are saying "we're Christians." It means that they are upholding the values of the Constitution. Just because a lot of the values are on that list does not make them Taboo. It just symbolizes the courts' duty to uphold the values of the Constitution.

Again, it all depends on how you look at them.
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Terry
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 03:14 pm
00 Agent Kid, the founding fathers most certainly did not base the Constitution on the 10 Cs, nor did they base it on "Christian principles" (which are quite different than the barbaric laws of the Old Testament).

The Constitution does not forbid the worship of the god(s) of your choice, making images of anything on earth, failing to honor your parents, or coveting your neighbor's wife and property. Blue laws restricting work and leisure activities on Sunday were found unconstitutional decades ago, and freedom of speech allows you to use God's name as you wish.

Rules against murder, adultery, theft and lying are common to all cultures and are not solely Judeo-Christian principles.

How is "I am the Lord thy God. Thou shalt have no other gods before me." anything BUT a blatantly obvious endorsement of the Judeo-Christian religion to the exclusion of all others?

The 10 Cs have no place in any public building.
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Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 09:08 pm
I would agree with Terry and Phoenix, but the issue of it being "a public building" doesn't bother me so much as it being a law court. As an atheist I already face massive predjudice if that is revealed in court, without the jury being "shown" what is "right" the entire time they sit there assessing my nature. The law courts should be as fair as possible for everyone, not just for most. I think this (the TC display in court) could be one of those issues where the majority view is clearly fundamentally wrong.
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mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Mar, 2005 11:23 pm
The Ten Commandments cases are also being discussed in this thread beginning here.
Democracy is best served by a strict separation of church and state
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Mar, 2005 09:17 am
Anyone want to hazard a guess as to what the Supreme Courts decision will be. Keeping in mind that the ten commandments are posted in many or the courts and court buildings in the US. Including the one the USSC sits in. IMO and I know many will disagree, I think it is small potatoes in the separation of church and state controversy when measured against Bush's religious agenda. Which is in clear violation of the principle?
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Mar, 2005 10:30 am
Let's face it, people, it's an uphill battle that has little chance of success. Must I remind all of you how Bush won the last election? That provides all the 'evidence' necessary for those christian symbols to stay.
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Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Mar, 2005 03:12 am
hmmm au, Bush's agenda is different because he is your elected leader and with that comes a certain degree of allowance to lead from his own principles. The courtroom thing is a critical test of the future continued seperation of church and state...fundamental foundations of the USA. It's a big issue that most religious folks are trying to make a little issue of.
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roverroad
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Mar, 2005 03:43 am
Why do people keep wasting tax payer time and money with this issue? If you want the 10 commandments to be in everybody's face than put it in your house or business window. Nobody can do a thing about it. But it doesn't belong in government buildings.
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Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Mar, 2005 05:13 am
love your quote roveroad, best Bush quote yet.

Who knows, maybe that pollution will kill off some of them nasty impurities ?
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Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Mar, 2005 07:00 am
00 Agent Kid wrote:

I, however, have a different (yet secular) view on the matter. The founding fathers based most of the Constitution's principles from Christian principles (i.e. the Ten Commandments). The Ten Commandments became a foundation of our country.


I always enjoy seeing this myth in print because it gives me the opportunity to ask if the writer has actually read the US Constitution.
Here it is:
The Constitution of the United States

Did you read it? Except for the Preamble, it's a pretty dry piece of paper, wouldn't you say? Dryness is a good thing when you are building foundations. And, as you saw, there is no mention of those moral principles or values referred to in the above quote. In fact, as brought up in the recent arguments before the Court on this very issue, the Founding Fathers neither referred to nor mentioned the Ten Commandments in their deliberations in Philadelphia nor in the Federalists Papers nor, except for scant remarks in the late writings of Franklin, are there any mentions of a connection between moral principles and governance. * You find that sort of thing in Voltaire and the Preambles of the Constitutions of the various States, the writers of the latter having to play to a local crowd.

The only reference to religion of any kind is in the First Amendment and it both restricts Congress from establishing any religion in particular and from restraining the free exercise of any form of such beliefs. That's been a good thing for this nation.

The homeless guy who wrote this petition of redress to the Supreme Court of the United States embodies the true nature of the free citizens of the United States who can approach the halls of the their government knowing that the powers held by that government came not from above, but from the combined consent of the People.

Joe(e pluribus ) Nation



*Franklin, the deist, proposed that the sessions of the Constitutional Convention be opened and closed with a prayer. I think he was trying to keep a calmness in a very hot room amongst very hot minds. His proposal was turned down.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Mar, 2005 07:08 am
And God says unto Moses, I've got some commandments for you.
Moses says how much?
God replies, Moses, you misunderstand, they are My gift to Mankind. There is no charge.
So Moses says ok I'll have ten.
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Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Mar, 2005 07:39 am
Has anyone mentioned that several of these monuments to the Ten Commandments, the one in Dallas in particular, were placed there as part of a promotional program for Heston's movie The Ten Commandments ?

Joe(Howja like your own set of Tablets?) Nation
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Mar, 2005 08:24 am
damn hollywood liberals with their sex and violence, I swear they are runing this nation. There outta be a law!
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