Abortion is immoral. Period.

We should remove the demonization and mischaracterization and be civil to each other. Understood. This civility does not address and has no bearing on the issue of abortion, though.

I would like to agree, but can you find a post on this thread that wasn't demonizing or mischaracterizing opponents of abortion?

We need more civility.

How does that affect the issue, though, to the point of disagreement?

People who oppose abortion believe that abortion takes a human life.

I haven't seen one person who supports a "woman's right to choose" even acknowledge the primary issue of life. The implication that they want to control women, or restrict rights is irrelevant and offensive. Instead of acknowledging the important issue, people on the left are demonizing and mischaracterizing the other side.

That's because I disagree one which point a zygote becomes a human being. Killing cells like cancer is good, while the same concept for a mass of zygote cells is bad. You wouldn't allow cancer to grow until it took over the host, and this is no different.

Exactly Neptune.

If someone convinced you that a zygote was a human being, and that abortion was taking its life, then you would you change your mind about abortion? What makes this issue so difficult is that there is no objective way to define when a zygote becomes a human being.

(As a parent of three children, I think comparing babies to cancer is a really bad metaphor... I will let that one go).

No, I get to define my life, nobody else's. What's right for me may be wrong for you, so your choice is something else.

That is simply untrue. You live in a society. The society has laws based on a societal sense of morality. Breaking the law has consequences.

Some of these laws you agree with (banning child marriage, for example). Some of the laws you disagree with. If abortion becomes illegal again, you will have to accept the consequences. People are restricted from all sorts of behavior from prostitution (either paying or working as a prostitute) to drug use to owning assault weapons...

You support laws that restrict the lives of people in other areas. This isn't a good argument.

Yes, that's true. And I would work tirelessly to make sure women have once again safe and legal options to terminate an unwanted pregnancy.

I have no problem with that. You should work tirelessly for what you believe. That's how democracy works.

You just need to understand that there is another side to this issue. It isn't as simple as you pretend. The women and men who believe that abortion ends a human life are working just as tirelessly to end the practice of abortion.

What makes you think I don't "understand" the other side? How pretentious is that? Of course I understand, I simply do not agree that some one else's morality is superior to mine. And no, it's not simple, I don't "pretend" to care about a human life as it pertains to abortion yet limit funding to raise that child to the age of majority.

People just don't seek a solution like abortion as if it's nothing. It's SOMETHING. Having someone stuff their morality against my morality is going to be met with a hard line.

Neptune, Are you willing to impose your morality on other people in other issues?

I assume you support laws banning child marriage (am I wrong)? What about laws preventing people from owning assault rifles, or using a prostitute? You can't sell your organs. You can't buy narcotics without a prescription. You can't grow certain species of mushrooms. You can't stage a dog fight, or show your genitals to fellow passengers on public transportation.

Society has the right to impose its morality on you even if you disagree with it.

Stick to the subject and don't hijack a thread. All because you ran out of things to say, you interject other streams of thought.

I am pretty sure you are the one who is hijacking the thread here (you might want to check the title ).

You seem to be making the claim that society has no right to impose moral standards on you. You brought up this point. I am just refuting it.

If you would like to move on from the point that you raised, fine with me.

But you're interfering with a person's right to their own bodily functions.

Ah, the old bait and switch from you...

The title is "Abortion Is Immoral" not Child Marriage, Prostitution, Drug Usage or Assault Weapons.

Do you claim that society has no right to impose it's morality on you?

If you are making this claim, then I have refuted it (as is appropriate). If you are not making this claim, then I apologize for responding to a claim that you weren't making.

So what? There are lots of laws that interfere with a persons "right" to their own bodily functions, for example drug laws and laws banning prostitution.

You're comparing drug use to a woman's right to decide whether or not she wants to carry a pregnancy to full term. You're also comparing non-state sanctioned sex to a woman's right to decide whether or not she wants to carry a pregnancy to full term.

If you want to condemn drug use for its social repercussions, fine. If you want to condemn prostitution for whatever reason you can come up with, fine. I can agree to an extent with the need to keep heroin and other hard drugs out of the hands of the young. Prostitution? Not so much. But neither can be compared to an abortion.

There are lots of laws where society restricts what you can and can't do with your body. I have given you many examples. That is the only point that I am making with these examples.

You are claiming that a woman has a right to decide whether to end a pregnancy or not. Many people disagree with this claim. Most people who believe that an abortion ends a human life want abortion restricted... because our society doesn't allow the taking of human life except in very specific circumstances.

I notice that you are wording things to highlight the right of a woman over her own body. I am wording the same thing to highlight the fact that abortion ends a human life. These word games don't change the fact that there are two sides to this issue.

I understand that you believe that a woman has the right to decide. I don't see this as an absolute right particularly if you consider the fetus to be a human life. But this is a disagreement over values, not over facts.

However, It is factually wrong to say that society can't tell men or women what they can or can't do with their bodies. Society does that all of the time, and you agree with it at least some of the time.