"Troy" The Illiad Revised

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Finally rented "Troy" as I managed to miss it at the cineplex. I did watch it on a large wide screen TV with 5.1 THX sound. This is a handsome production with great battle scenes but I'm afraid it ends there. The soundtrack is weak making one wonder where is Howard Shore when you need him? The chemistry between Paris and Helen is almost totally missing -- it began with a scene of physical lust and ended with Helen slipping away through a secret passage and Paris, after a cowardly withdrawal from the bout with Helen's hubby, suddenly becoming the archer elf from LOTR and delivering the arrow through the heel that downs Achilles (I had to chuckle). Achilles was a combination, with some irony, as a heel and a caring boyfriend of Paris' cousin. Brad Pitt is successfully heroic in a part that is enlarged to dominate the film but his romancing makes one cease to wonder what happened to his marriage. This turns out to be a Brad vehicle where one or two of the dramatic wheels come off during the middle of the movie. The Trojan horse becomes anti-climactic and they opted for a version inspired by a break-away suit in an old comedy. The older version with Rosana Podesta as Helen, who really had the looks but her acting made her into Rosana Pedestal is still comparable to this film. That film, "Helen of Troy" had a gorgeous score by Max Steiner but had many problems, but it also managed to look great. It did end in a tragic climax which was operatic, not this flimsy "tie-up-the-strings" weak ending.

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As I haven't seen it yet, just listening in for now.

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illiad
I watched Troy with my father a couple of weeks ago and needless to say, neither of us was too hot on it. I've read the Illiad, but they must have taken a serious detour from the book. First of all, Achilles cousin that was killed isnt his cousin in the Illiad. Its one of Achilles' best friends. I wasnt too pleased with Achilles wither. Brad Pitt was just too old to play that part.
Also, that part in the beginning where they sack the temple, it never happened in the Illiad. They DID, however, steal the priest of apollo's daughter.
I wasnt please with the way they portrayed the trojans and greeks, either. The Greeks were not THAT barbaric and the trojans werent perfect angels. In fact, they were pretty stuck up.
The battle scenes were pretty cool, but historically inaccurate and downright stupid.

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Welcome to A2K and the film forum, corgilover (great dogs!)

I can agree with almost all you're stating about the movie but not sure what you mean that the battle scenes were stupid or historically inaccurate (there being no real history about Troy even though it's pretty certain that they've found the site in Turkey and it looks like it was destroyed by an earthquake and fire). The worst digression from The Illiad is the final section of the film where Achilles is suddenly elevated to the status of a martyred hero and Paris, and Helen, slip away. To be fair, the film's credits state that it was "based" on Homer's Illiad. Very loosely based and I could swallow that if the movie had real dramatic integrity. It wavers in dramatic flow and becomes episodic for me. The battle scenes were as spectacular as those in LOTR but LOTR still remains the benchmark for battle scenes, at least in fantasy or mythological movies.

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Illiad Revised
What I mean by historically inaccurate is by the way they fight. My dad plays war games with friends of his and sometimes he fights with a Greek Army. He has researched this stuff and knows how they fight. For instance, that initial battle where the Trojans are defending Troy from the Greeks initial onslaught they were much too close to their city. They were right outside the walls in fact. You would want to be much farther out so that you would have area to fall back and regroup.

Also, most of the weapons the Greeks used in battle were made out of bronze. Bronze, as you know, is not the sturdiest of materials. It breaks VERY easily. The Greeks and trojans would not be using their weapons the way they did in the movie because their weapons would break on contact.

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Achille's Heel
Did you notice that no where in the film did they mention anything about Achille's heel and how that was his only vulnerable spot?

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I might think to buy it when I can get it for a few bucks

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As I remember from the Illiad, the first attack on the city over the plain on the coast of today's Turkey was a siege on the walls. Apparantly, Plato wasn't a master of military tactics of the time in telling a mythological story. The battle in a time frame did take place at the end (or collapse) of the Bronze Age. How many iron weapons they would have had is also part of a mythological story so the artistic license taken in the film is forgivable. The one-on-one confrontations were the best part of the movie! Deviation from the actual story would have been forgivable for cinematic coherance but I found the alterations and editing of the story to make little sense. I think they did make a good choice in not offering any pre-explanation of Achilles' Heel as they anticipated most everyone knows that part of the story and would be in suspense wondering when the event took place. It was, however, not faithful to the story as it took place during a battle, not after intrusion into the city as I remember. As I stated before, this was too obviously a Brad vehicle where they expanded his role way out of proportion. I thought they lost some of the epic scope of the mythology.

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Re: Illiad Revised

corgilover44 wrote:

What I mean by historically inaccurate is by the way they fight.

Movies get the basics of combat wrong all the time. Recently, Hollywood has made some small steps toward improving the accuracy of its depiction of soldiers in combat, but for every step forward it seems that it takes another one backward. For instance, in "Saving Private Ryan," there was much to admire about the realism of the beach-landing scenes. But later in the same movie, the American soldiers are out on patrol, all grouped together and yammering away in a normal conversational tone -- in real life, they would have been more separated and they certainly would not have been talking (why not just tell the Germans: "hey, we're over here, why doncha' just shoot us all while we're in a big bunch?).

I haven't seen "Troy," but most depictions of this epic place the events in the Greek classical age, rather than in the more historically appropriate bronze age, just as most depictions of King Arthur place him in the high middle ages rather than in the dark ages. Most moviegoers couldn't tell the difference and wouldn't care anyway.

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That's in a better perspective, joe. I can see deviating from what would be more accurate depictions in "Saving Private Ryan" to facilitate conversations in a group for dramatic and cinematic reasons. In the "Band of Brothers" HBO series, it was more accurately depicted but still there was a little fudging here and there. My point was in not nitpicking about how Hollywood or any filmmaker anywhere might divert from researched sources but making changes that do not make good sense. In fact, the dramatic flow of the story of Troy was made into a series of poorly connected episodes. It is a little hard to emperically state that no iron weapons existed within a mythological story. I think the weapons in LOTR were titanium.

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Re: Illiad Revised

joefromchicago wrote:

corgilover44 wrote:
What I mean by historically inaccurate is by the way they fight.

Movies get the basics of combat wrong all the time. Recently, Hollywood has made some small steps toward improving the accuracy of its depiction of soldiers in combat, but for every step forward it seems that it takes another one backward. For instance, in "Saving Private Ryan," there was much to admire about the realism of the beach-landing scenes. But later in the same movie, the American soldiers are out on patrol, all grouped together and yammering away in a normal conversational tone -- in real life, they would have been more separated and they certainly would not have been talking (why not just tell the Germans: "hey, we're over here, why doncha' just shoot us all while we're in a big bunch?).

I remember that scene. My dad was having a conipttion because of it.

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The only really interesting and dramatic part of the movie is where they stuck with the plot of the original - where Homers father sneaks in to Achilles tent to ask him for his son's body back.

Action sequences do not equal great plot and drama, and are no substitutes.

The book was far more interesting but a bi-sexual Achilles grieving at the loss of his cousin / lover and setting out to kill Homer might not have scored so high at the box office.

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Interesting that in "Alexander" the bi-sexuality was not ignored (although self-consciously sanitized) but it's doubtful that is the reason it did not do well at the box office. A lot of money is spent on making run-of-the-mill scripts into something that looks good but are superficial in their storytelling. I responded on Craven's thread to his viewing of "Troy" that it wasn't a bad movie per se but it wasn't any better than vintage sword-and-sandal epics. I agree that the Trojan king confronting Achilles was the high point of the movie and I it was intended that the battle between Achilles and Hector (not Homer, he he) was suppose to be. Brad's high flying kung fu leaps into the air with the sword was more comical than amazing. If I keep writing, I'll keep moving the movie down another grade. I was honestly trying to forget a forgettable movie that isn't worth watching more than once. I can actually not wait any longer for "Alexander" on DVD so I can see what the bulk of the finest critics wrote about that movie.

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o'toole as priam asking for the desecrated body of his son hector was worth all the fluff.

i must have read various translations of the iliad 2 dozen times and i have always felt it should have been called the tragedy of hector.

give the ancient greeks credit, they did honor their enemies when warranted

i think the 300 spartans was a better movie

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Hey, kuvasz! Yes, I was riveted on that scene but the rivets popped out on nearly all the rest of the movie and the final scenes with Paris suddenly turning into Legolas made me laugh. Maybe if they'd lay off the corny side of the vintage sword-and-sandal epics which now are a display of camp and circumstance, they could make a better movie. I haven't seen "The 300 Spartans" for so many years, it should be added to my NetFlix queue.

I noticed checking out at the supermarket that there was a kiosk display of 20th Century Fox movies which included the Richard Burton "Alexander the Great." At under 10.00 I was tempted but wondered what quality of print was used and how good the digital transfer was, in other words what kind of restoration was done as all the versions of the film I've seen on TV have been dismally poor quality. They also had "West Side Story" which I mistakingly purchased and found out it was pan-and-scan in the very tiny print. A pan-and-scan of "West Side Story?" Why don't they just edit out all the dance sequences and leave it at that. It ended up being returned.

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"Troy" The Illiad Revised

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