Does Religion Have a Place in the Future of Humankind?

Hmmm interesting responses from you both. I think lefty answered more honestly while Rex more or less gave me what he thinks atheists must (logically) be like.

Personally Rex, I imagine if this did happen to you, you would adjust quickly enough and you would just as passionately try to help others to see your new point of view, and I don't think you would become some kind of monster.

If either of you really care about trying to convince atheists of anything I would seriously recommend trying to imagine (empathise) life from my perspective. It will make you much better ambassadors for your cause.

For the record, I am quite a conservative guy, I love my wife and daughter more than anything, and I'm filled with awe for the beauty of the world and the universe. I am appalled at the thought of murder, I detest slavery and all forms of cruelty. I love cats, I won't kill a spider if it can be avoided. I ain't perfect, but I sure ain't "lost". I just don't see the need for any gods at all. They are not needed to explain the past, the fact that some things are not yet explained is not surprising or troubling to me. I can face the prospect of death without needing a future beyond the end. I strive every day to be a better person, and I'm happy Smile

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EorI, Well stated. I'm no angel either, but feel my standards for treating all living things are above average. That's enough for me; I'm not trying to prove anything to anybody - except to myself be true.

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Eorl wrote:

I think lefty answered more honestly while Rex more or less gave me what he thinks atheists must (logically) be like.

Nope, I actually answered honestly. Smile

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Personally Rex, I imagine if this did happen to you, you would adjust quickly enough and you would just as passionately try to help others to see your new point of view, and I don't think you would become some kind of monster.

Did you want me to tell you the truth or not? You asked the questions, I answered them, and now you're saying "Well, personally, I don't think you'd do that."

Here, let me sum it up for you: if I found out, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that there was no God and after we die we are gone for good, I would lose all of my love for mankind.

They're all just pieces of meat, then-- pieces of meat that would be in my way. I'd take them out as I see fit-- lie to them for my own gain, abuse them for my own entertainment. Plus, I've been mistreated in my life, and it'd be time for some revenge. Perhaps when I finally felt like my life was complete, I'd commit a mass murder-suicide. Kill a bunch of mother****ers and take them down with me.

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If either of you really care about trying to convince atheists of anything I would seriously recommend trying to imagine (empathise) life from my perspective.

Sorry, I'm not in the business of empathizing with anyone who denies that there's a God. If you don't believe in religion or anything, hey, it's your belief-- but I'm not going to feel sorry for you. You're old enough to make your own decisions. I'm neither going to scold you nor feel pity for you because of them.

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just don't see the need for any gods at all. They are not needed to explain the past, the fact that some things are not yet explained is not surprising or troubling to me. I can face the prospect of death without needing a future beyond the end. I strive every day to be a better person, and I'm happy.

Good for you, then. Maybe one day you'll change your mind, but even if not, good luck in your life. Smile

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Rex the Wonder Squirrel wrote:

Nope, I actually answered honestly.

That's good enough for me.

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Here, let me sum it up for you: if I found out, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that there was no God and after we die we are gone for good, I would lose all of my love for mankind.

They're all just pieces of meat, then-- pieces of meat that would be in my way. I'd take them out as I see fit-- lie to them for my own gain, abuse them for my own entertainment. Plus, I've been mistreated in my life, and it'd be time for some revenge. Perhaps when I finally felt like my life was complete, I'd commit a mass murder-suicide. Kill a bunch of mother****ers and take them down with me.

Wow... That's called sociopathy and is a serious mental disorder. Isn't it disturbing in the least that having accepted this religion it is now so firmly entrenched within your brain that removing it would destroy your sanity?

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Sorry, I'm not in the business of empathizing with anyone who denies that there's a God.

And here we go right back into sociopathy...

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Here, let me sum it up for you: if I found out, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that there was no God and after we die we are gone for good, I would lose all of my love for mankind.

They're all just pieces of meat, then-- pieces of meat that would be in my way. I'd take them out as I see fit-- lie to them for my own gain, abuse them for my own entertainment. Plus, I've been mistreated in my life, and it'd be time for some revenge. Perhaps when I finally felt like my life was complete, I'd commit a mass murder-suicide. Kill a bunch of mother****ers and take them down with me.

Fair enough Rex, I now understand your need for religion, and I'm in no hurry to pull down those barriers!

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Sorry, I'm not in the business of empathizing with anyone who denies that there's a God.

Then the possibilty of further meaningful dialogue seems pretty unlikely.

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good luck in your life.

Thankyou, and likewise. (Although I don't believe in luck either Wink

)

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Somewhat related.
***************
US court mulls Commandments case

The US Supreme Court has begun hearing arguments about whether it is legal for the Ten Commandments to be displayed on government property.
The hearing is focused on buildings in Texas and Kentucky.

The judges must decide whether the monuments are merely a tribute to US history or an unconstitutional break with the church-state separation.

Observers say the hearing has sparked a vigorous debate between Christian conservatives and secularists.

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Cic, I started a new thread on this very topic.

Come on over, the water is fine...but warming...

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EorI, Post a link will ya? Thx, c.i.

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oh yeah sorry

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=46647&highlight=

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theantibuddha wrote:

That's good enough for me.

Well, that's nice, but my reply wasn't aimed at you. And considering you just jumped into this conversation out of nowhere, I don't particularly care if it was "good enough" for you or not.

theantibuddha wrote:

Wow... That's called sociopathy and is a serious mental disorder.

No, I'm completely sane. Everything I'm talking about is completely hypothetical. In fact, it is insanely hypothetical. Ha ha ha...did you like my little pun there? You better have, you never know when I might find out there's not a God. Wink

theantibuddha wrote:

Isn't it disturbing in the least that having accepted this religion it is now so firmly entrenched within your brain that removing it would destroy your sanity?

It wouldn't destroy my sanity. It would just change my world perspective. Smile

Afterall, what is sanity without something to compare it to? If you mean sanity by your definition of sanity, well then...I'll repeate what I just said. I don't particularly care if it's good enough for you or not. Smile

Eorl wrote:

Thankyou, and likewise. (Although I don't believe in luck either)

Yeah yeah, me either. Razz

It was meant to be more of a formality than anything else.

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I don't particularly care if it was "good enough" for you or not.

You don't care about much so it's hardly surprising. If you really want to shock me you'll have to show empathy or consideration.

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In fact, it is insanely hypothetical. Ha ha ha...did you like my little pun there?

You call THAT a pun? Shakespeare is rolling in his grave.

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You better have, you never know when I might find out there's not a God.

A) Even if you became an atheist that doesn't grant you the skill nor the ability to harm me, even if you're sufficiently insane to have the desire.
B) The pope, a nobel physicist and the archangel Michael together couldn't convince you there wasn't a god if they had ten thousand pages of proof in a power-point presentation so it's really not much of a concern.

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It wouldn't destroy my sanity. It would just change my world perspective.

Oh forgive me. In that case you're already insane and merely prevented from acting upon it by your religious beliefs, much apologies if I falsely ascribed sanity to you.

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If you mean sanity by your definition of sanity, well then...

Actually I mean it by the proffessional diagnostic criteria.

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I'll repeate what I just said. I don't particularly care if it's good enough for you or not.

<shrug> Again, your lack of caring is hardly shocking at this point.

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I'm too far behind to contribute a relevant post on this thread, but let me suggest (if it hasn't already been suggested) that the question,"Does religion have a place in mankind's future?" must be answered with " It depends on what kind of religion". Notice that I did not say which religion but what kind of religion.
Unless mankind goes to hell on earth his future will not contain some form of fundamentalism. If he goes to heaven on earth, his religion will--in my opinion--be of the mystical sort, e.g., Taoism, Sufism, Zen, Vedanta, etc..

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JLN,

Estimates for the number of followers of the world's major religions are as follows:
Christianity 2 billion
Islam 1.3 billion
Hinduism 900 million
Atheist 850 million
Buddhist 360 million

How do you base your opinion on it's change from now to the future religions of the world to mysticism? And how long do you think this shift will take? IMHO, I see Islam and Christianity growing at the fastest rate for the nexy millineum, and Buddhism showing some growth.

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C.I., I was not, of course, making a prediction about the future demographics of religion. I'm afraid that fundamentalist versions of Christianity and Islam might be the dominant forms of religion, in which case it will be hell on earth. To me that would not be any kind of "future."

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I don't see the "hell on earth" scenario as readily as you, but it's because most of my family and friends are Christians. I count as friends some Muslims in Egypt, Iran and Tanzania. I don't see a bleak future for this world.

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I hope you are right, C.I.. I'm just expressing my subjective preferences and dislikes.

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I think rex was trying to make the point that from our Christian view on atheism, is that of no moral code. I have genuinely thought about both side's arguments, and I can kind of see how there could be morality, set by humans...but I also see Rex's side which is a little sadistic, but very true. He believes that without something more than just humans (like God) then what the heck matters but doing whatever you want? Or whatever gets you ahead in life...but the truth is, if the atheists have a moral code, doesn't that prove there is a difference between good and evil? Or is that just another man-made thing? I don't think so. For one reason really, why would someone make it up, if we never originally had a conscious(*probably spelled wrong*)?

Just to clear up one more thing...I do know that atheists have feelings...someone took that the wrong way in another thread. Smile

rex wrote:

It wouldn't destroy my sanity. It would just change my world perspective.

I see where you're coming from on this one, seriously, who's to say what sanity is, if you can just take it from a million different points of view? If a murderer kills someone...he/she may think that they are sane...it is all perspective if there is nothing but a buncha humans on a planet.

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without something more than just humans (like God) then what the heck matters but doing whatever you want?

Logic alone is enough on which to develop a moral code similar to the Christian code and of most societies on the planet.

There is a scene in "a beautiful mind" where John Nash does a quick assessment of his maximum gain...deciding that his maximum benefit was achieved when working for both his own gain and that of others simultaneously.

Also, communication and empathy are the strong human connections that make civilization possible, and it is this that makes us actively want to see other people happy, rather than to hurt them. Yes I help a lady across the street for my own selfish gain because I feel good about it, but not because it means I score extra points upstairs.

What is so hard to understand about humanity that you guys find impossible to seperate from the concept of gods ?

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I dont think it will fade away. I think it will go out with a bang and take humanity with it.

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That's real optimistic there steve (as41oo), ok, say we all go out with a bang, then were do we go? do we cease to exist or to we go to heaven or hell. Is there even such a place as heaven or hell? who can answer these questions with out an overly biased opinion?

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Does Religion Have a Place in the Future of Humankind?

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