I always do...to the best of my knowledge (which isn't all that dependable).
Ok, if religion is supossed to be so great, and athiesm is supposed to be so great, then why are we all fighting, i step out for a few days and i come badk to frank saying "goddamn" and other things, just drop it, no one is going to agree to what you or i have to say thunder runner 32, or you frank, or any one else on this thread cause were all set in our ways as thick skulled idiots that can't calmly discuss a topic or agree on it. so just drop it. that's the best thing any one can do.
the sleeper, Me thinks you're on the wrong forum. What do you think "discussion boards" are for? Most of us, if we involve ourselves in enough forums, will eventually say dumb or uninformed things. I stay involved, because it's entertaining and educational - even this topic.
cicerone imposter wrote:the sleeper, Me thinks you're on the wrong forum. What do you think "discussion boards" are for? Most of us, if we involve ourselves in enough forums, will eventually say dumb or uninformed things. I stay involved, because it's entertaining and educational - even this topic.
I agree, anyways, why are you here anyways? Posting here, then telling us not to post here is pretty idiotic. Who says we don't learn anything. My views have changed since I have been on here, not drastically, but they have. Even if you don't learn anything about the topic, it's good to get some input from other people every once in a while.
And I agree with ci and Thunder.
Now...we have a theist, an atheist, and an agnostic agreeing on something.
Maybe there is something to this miracle stuff!
a theist, an athiest and an agnostic walk into a bar..........
........
........
nah, I got nothin'
I got one, thought of it the other day...
a theist, an athiest and an agnostic are sitting at the edge of a pool, the theist jumps in without any thought, the agnostic says there is no way to tell if the water is too hot/cold so they refuse to jump in, and the atheist refuses to believe that there is any water at all...
I know that was retarded, but at least I made fun of everyone.
hahaha, knocked my socks off. hahahahahahaahahaahaahahhahahahahah
It surely knocked something off of ya... ha ha ha ha...
thunder_runner32 wrote:cicerone imposter wrote:the sleeper, Me thinks you're on the wrong forum. What do you think "discussion boards" are for? Most of us, if we involve ourselves in enough forums, will eventually say dumb or uninformed things. I stay involved, because it's entertaining and educational - even this topic.
I agree, anyways, why are you here anyways? Posting here, then telling us not to post here is pretty idiotic. Who says we don't learn anything. My views have changed since I have been on here, not drastically, but they have. Even if you don't learn anything about the topic, it's good to get some input from other people every once in a while.
Better late than never, I would like to agree also.
thunder_runner32 wrote: As far as witches and that sort of thing go, when Jesus came, a lot of things changed, an old mind-set was replaced with one of forgiveness and of understanding of others. We try now to help people, not just stone them when they do a wrong.
In the spirit of learning, I would like to point out that things have changed, but they have done so in spite of the Bible rather than because of it. It was long after Jesus that persecution of people thought to be witches was carried on by Christians in the name of their religion. Have you ever heard of the Salem Mass. witch trials?
Quote:Hanged on June 10, 1692
Bridget Bishop, Salem
Hanged on July 19, 1692
Sarah Good, Salem Village
Rebecca Nurse, Salem Village
Susannah Martin, Amesbury
Elizabeth How, Ipswich
Sarah Wilds, Topsfield
Hanged on August 19, 1692
George Burroughs, Wells, Maine
John Proctor, Salem Village
John Willard, Salem Village
George Jacobs, Sr., Salem Town
Martha Carrier, Andover
September 19, 1692
Giles Corey, Salem Farms, pressed to death
Hanged on September 22, 1692
Martha Corey, Salem Farms
Mary Eastey, Topsfield
Alice Parker, Salem Town
Ann Pudeater, Salem Town
Margaret Scott, Rowley
Wilmott Reed, Marblehead
Samuel Wardwell, Andover
Mary Parker, Andover
Other accused witches that were not hanged, but died in prison:
Sarah Osborne, Salem Village
Roger Toothaker, Billerica
Lyndia Dustin, Reading
Ann Foster, Andover
Thirteen others may have also died in prison, but sources conflict on the exact number.
Salem Witch Trials FAQs
Something to note here, although most rational people no longer believe in witches, the passages which prescribed the above atrocities are still in the Bible.
The salem witch trials were really just a scapegoat, to my understanding, that is. It was just widespread hysteria that resulted in panic.
thunder_runner32
The core belief was religious.
Did the world change with the advent of Jesus?
Not one bit. In fact as history has shown it was just and additional excuse for man's inhumanity to man. Religous intolerance and hatred.
thunder_runner32 wrote:The salem witch trials were really just a scapegoat, to my understanding, that is. It was just widespread hysteria that resulted in panic.
Based on what?
Mother Goose tales?
Religion...based in fear and superstition...has always been a blight on this planet...and always will be.
We ought not to spend time looking for intelligent life elsewhere in our universe...because until we rid ourselves of this nonsense, there is no intelligent life here!
All said with the utmost respect, of course.
thunder_runner32 wrote:The salem witch trials were really just a scapegoat, to my understanding, that is. It was just widespread hysteria that resulted in panic.
Thunder, could you please explain your use of the term "scapegoat" above. Did you read the link I provided?
The End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason
An extremely important book for rational thinkers.
BBB
The End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason
by Sam Harris
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Product Description:
An impassioned plea for reason in a world divided by faith.
This important and timely book delivers a startling analysis of the clash of faith and reason in today's world. Harris offers a vivid historical tour of mankind's willingness to suspend reason in favor of religious beliefs, even when those beliefs are used to justify harmful behavior and sometimes heinous crimes. He asserts that in the shadow of weapons of mass destruction, we can no longer tolerate views that pit one true god against another. Most controversially, he argues that we cannot afford moderate lip service to religion?-an accommodation that only blinds us to the real perils of fundamentalism. While warning against the encroachment of organized religion into world politics, Harris also draws on new evidence from neuroscience and insights from philosophy to explore spirituality as a biological, brain-based need. He calls on us to invoke that need in taking a secular humanistic approach to solving the problems of this world.
Editorial Reviews
Natalie Angier, The New York Times Book Review
An important book, on a topic that...should not be shielded from the crucible of human reason.
The Economist
Will strike a chord with anyone who has ever pondered the irrationality of religious faith and its cruel, murderous consequences.
The San Francisco Chronicle
[Harris] writes with such verve and frequent insight that even skeptical readers will find it hard to put down.
Joseph C. Hough, Jr., President, Union Theological Seminary, New York
Here is a ringing challenge to all Americans.
Peter Singer, author of The President of Good and Evil
At last we have a book that...links Islamic terrorism with the irrationality of all religious faith.
Alan Dershowitz, author of America on Trial
Harris's tour de force demonstrates how faith...threatens our very existence... A must read for all rational people.
From Publishers Weekly:
In this sometimes simplistic and misguided book, Harris calls for the end of religious faith in the modern world. Not only does such faith lack a rational base, he argues, but even the urge for religious toleration allows a too-easy acceptance of the motives of religious fundamentalists. Religious faith, according to Harris, requires its adherents to cling irrationally to mythic stories of ideal paradisiacal worlds (heaven and hell) that provide alternatives to their own everyday worlds. Moreover, innumerable acts of violence, he argues, can be attributed to a religious faith that clings uncritically to one set of dogmas or another. Very simply, religion is a form of terrorism for Harris. Predictably, he argues that a rational and scientific view?-one that relies on the power of empirical evidence to support knowledge and understanding?-should replace religious faith. We no longer need gods to make laws for us when we can sensibly make them for ourselves. But Harris overstates his case by misunderstanding religious faith, as when he makes the audaciously naïve statement that "mysticism is a rational enterprise; religion is not." As William James ably demonstrated, mysticism is far from a rational enterprise, while religion might often require rationality in order to function properly. On balance, Harris's book generalizes so much about both religion and reason that it is ineffectual.
Copyright © Reed Business Information, a division of Reed Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.
mesquite wrote:Thunder, could you please explain your use of the term "scapegoat" above. Did you read the link I provided?
No, actually I googled it and found another site, before I saw your link. It basically said that there were a bunch of factors that were causing tension and then some child was acting strangley and blamed it on witchcraft, and the townfolk releasing their tension, decided to blame their problems on witchcraft. This caused even more panic and it spread like fire.
au1929 wrote:thunder_runner32
The core belief was religious.
Did the world change with the advent of Jesus?
Not one bit. In fact as history has shown it was just and additional excuse for man's inhumanity to man. Religous intolerance and hatred.
The problems of man do not lie in religion, they lie in the perversion of the word that religions promote. So to speak, the problem is in men, not the faith they follow. If men were to stick true to Christianity, there would be peace. Find one passage in the bible where Jesus tells us to be violent and intolerant. He is our example and his whole message was about peace, love, and forgiveness. He respected other's beliefs and had no need to force them down other's throats.
thunder_runner32 wrote:mesquite wrote:Thunder, could you please explain your use of the term "scapegoat" above. Did you read the link I provided?
No, actually I googled it and found another site, before I saw your link. It basically said that there were a bunch of factors that were causing tension and then some child was acting strangley and blamed it on witchcraft, and the townfolk releasing their tension, decided to blame their problems on witchcraft. This caused even more panic and it spread like fire.
The complexities of the witchcraft trials are much, much more involved than this. Do some reading on it...and you will see.
In any case, they were, as witch trials throughout history, motivated by religious considerations.
Quote:
au1929 wrote:thunder_runner32
The core belief was religious.
Did the world change with the advent of Jesus?
Not one bit. In fact as history has shown it was just and additional excuse for man's inhumanity to man. Religous intolerance and hatred.
The problems of man do not lie in religion, they lie in the perversion of the word that religions promote. So to speak, the problem is in men, not the faith they follow.
That is absolute blather, Thunder...and it is offered by you theist because you simply do not want to take responsibility for the horrors religion engender.
Quote: If men were to stick true to Christianity, there would be peace. Find one passage in the bible where Jesus tells us to be violent and intolerant.
Okay.
As I quoted earlier from Matthew chapter 5...Jesus proclaimed that he was not here to change the law...not one word; not one letter; not one stroke of one letter.
The law is contained in Leviticus and Deuteronomy.
Read those two books and you will see more violence and intolerance than is contained in some of the worst trash Hollywood produces.
Insofar as Jesus said that he was not here to change any of that....he did "tell us to be violent and intolerant."
BBB...thanks for that information. For years I have maintained that the only way to combat the excesses of Islam...is to combat the excesses of ALL RELIGIONS.
We are not in a battle with Islam. We are in a battle with religion. And the do-gooders who pretend that religion is an asset for humanity ought to WAKE THE HELL UP...and finally realize that all this religion "I love god" bullshyt is destroying humanity.
frank apisa wrote:That is absolute blather, Thunder...and it is offered by you theist because you simply do not want to take responsibility for the horrors religion engender.
Please....
WHAT DON'T YOU GET ABOUT JESUS?! I am not under the old/Jewish laws, that's why I'm not a Jew. I am held accountable by Jesus, not the laws of the Jews. You're right, he didn't change the laws, he made it so that we didn't have to answer to the Jewish laws. That's why there is a new testament to men.
frank apisa wrote:Insofar as Jesus said that he was not here to change any of that....he did "tell us to be violent and intolerant."
Give me one instance where Jesus was violent and hateful to others.
