Does Religion Have a Place in the Future of Humankind?

headofthefield wrote

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that is just it I say "my god" b/c people like you will say that there are many types of one god.

No indeed. I say if there is a Supreme being there is but one. And no religion has exclusivity.

As for what you believe that is as transparent as glass. You believe that your religion is the true one and in the words of the vernacular all others are betting on the wrong horse. That is the height of arrogance.
It is also apparent that I touched a nerve. Sorry, however, if you choose to get into discussions on religion and tout yours as being the true religion you had better develop a thicker skin than you now have.

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au, Amen to that!

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AU, I have a new found respect for you. Imposter, I have tried to show respect for you. AU, I indeed feel my religion is the true one and your assumtion is correct. I am going to think it is no matter what. You believe what you want b/c I know we are both opinionated. Call me arrogant if you want but if having a strong faith in something is arrogant, then we are all arrogant at one time or another.
LEFTY, you are correct in your statement completely. I took the liberty of reading up like someone suggested and I found the same conclusion. You stated the same thing I was trying to but in a different manner. I applaud you.

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Quote, " Call me arrogant if you want but if having a strong faith in something is arrogant, then we are all arrogant at one time or another." Some of us also have strong opinions on the subject of religion and politics. Most of the time, it's not a matter of the religious' or political belief, but the way it's expressed. We all believe something; sometimes we're able to express it well and sometimes not. I don't think arrogance is all that bad; it's how it's expressed that matters.

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No, au, your statement was more arrogant. You misjudged.

Naturally, you'll disagree with my statment, but it is the truth as I see it, which I believe is very accurate.

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thunder_runner32 wrote:

Let's theorize for a second...let's say that there is really a god...ok...what the heck would it take for him to make you atheists believe...short of just showing himself to you?

Short of directly altering my brain chemistry in such a way to vary my personality nothing could. Not how you mean it anyway. I hold no belief with 100% surety, I always consider the possibility that I am wrong, delusional or have been manipulated in some way beyond my awareness.

Even if God bamfed into existance directly in front of me, explained everything about the universe and proved his powers to me I would not believe 100%. I would certainly consider it far more likely that he does exist yet I would also consider that I imagined the experience or was deceived by an illusion of some variety.

This is why I consider myself an atheistic agnostic.

However if your question were "what would make you think the existance of God is more likely" then I would answer as follows.

* Demonstrable miracles that are more impressive than stage magicians or scientists can create.
* The aforementioned direct manifestation.
* A consistant religion which makes sense.

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theantibuddah wrote:

* Demonstrable miracles that are more impressive than stage magicians or scientists can create.
* The aforementioned direct manifestation.
* A consistant religion which makes sense.

What about DNA...magicians nor scientists(nor computers) can even come close to the complexity of our internal 'coded information'

What about Jesus...conquering death...never seen any scientists pull that one off.

The only inconsistancies in Christianity occur because they are either 1)taken out of context
2)interpreted differently between two different people(that's why there are bible study groups)

As for making sense...sometimes we have to believe and trust that there is more than meets the eye. :wink:

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<sigh> You asked...

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What about DNA...magicians nor scientists(nor computers) can even come close to the complexity of our internal 'coded information'

Yet corporate jargon and legalese easily surpases it...

If I wanted bullshit answers like sunrises and births and puppy dogs and smiles on little girl's faces then there are entire stores filled with the fridge magnets of such "precious little miracles".

It's quite clear that when I asked for miracles I didn't mean, please leap in and take credit for the thousands of things that science has already explained, on behalf of your god.

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What about Jesus...conquering death...never seen any scientists pull that one off.

Yeah, because there's such great proof of that. Rolling Eyes

Let's see there's... the book written by people who worship him as a god and then there's.... the book written by people who worship him as a god and let's not forget that there's... the book written by people who worship him as a god.

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The only inconsistancies in Christianity occur because they are either 1)taken out of context

Thor's hammer... I'm sick and tired of this. I know the bible. Okay? I have vast chunks of it memorised word for word. I rewrite sections of it in plain english as a hobby. I beat christians in bible trivia games with ease and with some struggle pastors and priests. I make biblical reference in jokes that only a few christians even get. I know the bible better than EVERY christian I have ever met in the real world, and only a few of the most extreme christians that I have met online or seen on television know it better than I do.

I'm in the top first or second percentile when it comes to knowledge of the bible and that's amongst christians, not the general population.

So my opinion of it doesn't come from some few quotes that I've heard here and there which could be taken out of context from their original source. I HAVE READ THE ENTIRE BOOK COVER TO COVER. This makes it entirely impossible to take something out of context. You don't even know what taking something out of context means, you just say it by rote any time anyone brings up a valid biblical point that demonstrates a problem with the theology.

If someone tells me again that I'm taking something from the bible out of frigging context again then... I'll get moderately annoyed.

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2)interpreted differently between two different people(that's why there are bible study groups).

I can forgive a difference of opinion. I'm not talking about inconsistencies in what various christians say, I'm talking about inconsistencies within the described belief structure of any singular christian. If a single one... just one, of those people could come up with an entirely self-consistant version of christianity I'd be a step closer in considering the possibility.

It's happened. I've found one christian with a plausible, self-consistant belief structure. He departed pretty far from the mainstream christianity and had to draw upon the apocrypha, jewish mysticism and some pretty bizarre interpretations of various portions of the bible. However, his belief was entirely consistant AND it made sense.

I was astounded, my consideration of the possibility of him being right lept by an order of magnitude. If he had had any kind of proof at all, beyond it being a working theory, I would have accepted his version of christianity as a likely explanation of a metaphysical universe. As it is I still think there is a plausible chance of it being true even if it's fairly small.

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As for making sense...sometimes we have to believe and trust that there is more than meets the eye.

Yes. And on that note.

"Treogfhoihgbwsadoiuhbwetr"

The secrets of the universe are contained within that set of letters. Trust me Wink

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Thunder Runner

Earlier you said you would get back to me.

Four pages have passed....and you have not done so.

You made some assertions....and I asked you how you KNEW they were so.

I suspect you don't know...and are merely presenting guesses as assertions.

Are you going to discuss this...or merely promise to do so.

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theantibuddha wrote:

I HAVE READ THE ENTIRE BOOK COVER TO COVER. This makes it entirely impossible to take something out of context.

You can read something and still take it out of context. Just because you've read something doesn't mean you automatically get a full understanding of it. I applaud your studies, but it goes a little deeper. The Bible that we English speaking people read does have some natural imperfections because of being translated from Latin, Greek, and Hebrew. Also, saying you know more about the Bible than every christian you've ever met seems a little arrogant in itself to me.

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I hold no belief with 100% surety, I always consider the possibility that I am wrong, delusional or have been manipulated in some way beyond my awareness.

So instead of trusting a religion that has never been proven wrong, you blindly trust that we're here, with all of the perfect processes that exist in the world, because of an explosion that happened some trillion years ago.

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lefty06 wrote

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So instead of trusting a religion that has never been proven wrong, you blindly trust that we're here, with all of the perfect processes that exist in the world, because of an explosion that happened some trillion years ago.

It has also never been proven to be "right" either. And must be accepted on blind faith.

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theantibuddha wrote:

<sigh> You asked...

Yet corporate jargon and legalese easily surpases it...

If I wanted bullshit answers like sunrises and births and puppy dogs and smiles on little girl's faces then there are entire stores filled with the fridge magnets of such "precious little miracles".

It's quite clear that when I asked for miracles I didn't mean, please leap in and take credit for the thousands of things that science has already explained, on behalf of your god.

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What about Jesus...conquering death...never seen any scientists pull that one off.

Yeah, because there's such great proof of that. Let's see there's... the book written by people who worship him as a god and then there's.... the book written by people who worship him as a god and let's not forget that there's... the book written by people who worship him as a god.

My Response,
There were also more than 400 eyewitness accounts of jesus walking the earth after his "death." And to your extremely ignorant comment about if god showed himself and his power to you that you wouldn't believe after that, THAT IS REALLY IGNORANT. I definatly would believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that something was real if it was shown to me.

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There are also thousands of people who see Jesus, and the Virgin Mary on windows, half eaten sandwiches and the like. People see, in particular devout ones, what they want to see.

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Why must you always bring up blind faith? It isn't blind if you can prove it right.

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But those people saw him when he walked the earth for 40 days.

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You can read something and still take it out of context.

Le sigh...

When you know what taking something out of context is get back to me.

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I applaud your studies, but it goes a little deeper. The Bible that we English speaking people read does have some natural imperfections because of being translated from Latin, Greek, and Hebrew.

**** off. I read your stupid book okay. I'll tell you the same thing I tell muslims. I am NOT learning another language for your stupid religion. I'm already bilingual and that's hard enough work, okay? If your book was written by morons who can't translate, that's your problem. Not mine. I might if I hadn't seen others who HAVE bothered being ignored just as flatly as those who have not.

Oh, you speak aramaic, koine greek and have spent the last ten years of your life studying theology. I'm sorry but you just don't understand the bible.

I've seen you people do that so no. You're not getting me to learn another two bloody languages.

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Also, saying you know more about the Bible than every christian you've ever met seems a little arrogant in itself to me.

You're new, so I'll save you the hard guess work. I am arrogant.

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So instead of trusting a religion that has never been proven wrong, you blindly trust that we're here, with all of the perfect processes that exist in the world, because of an explosion that happened some trillion years ago.

Do you speak english?

If that's your level of comprehension I'm not going to bother speaking with you. There's no point. I might as well just point, gesture and say "asjbdfgoiuartgaer" at you a lot for all you're ever going to get out of it.

Reread what I said (just the bit that you quoted... okay? That shouldn't be too much), reread what you said and hopefully after you think about it for a bit you'll understand why I'm looking at you like you're crazy. Either that or someone who is a little less annoyed at the moment might explain it to you.

....

Why do I bother?

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headofthefield
Because that is after all the only thing that religious people have to fall back on. Faith. There may be no way to prove religion "wrong" except ones ability to reason, however,there is even less reason to believe it "right" except faith.
In addition based upon the myriad of religions that abound why would any believe that theirs is "the one" other than that faith?

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My Response,
There were also more than 400 eyewitness accounts of jesus walking the earth after his "death."

Yes... we know that because... "it's written in the book written by the people who accept him as a god." <shakes head>... Seriously, honest question here. What do I have to say to get through to you that that's just not good enough?

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And to your extremely ignorant comment about if god showed himself and his power to you that you wouldn't believe after that, THAT IS REALLY IGNORANT.

If I happened to mention the phrase socratic wisdom to you, would you have any clue what I'm talking about? I'm starting to suspect not. Do me a favour and look it up. You may find it interesting.

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I definatly would believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that something was real if it was shown to me.

So I'm ignorant because I act differently to you... intriguing notion.

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headofthefield wrote:

[There were also more than 400 eyewitness accounts of jesus walking the earth after his "death." And to your extremely ignorant comment about if god showed himself and his power to you that you wouldn't believe after that, THAT IS REALLY IGNORANT. I definatly would believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that something was real if it was shown to me.

That is much, much fewer than the number of eyewitnesses who have seen Elvis alive and walking the Earth after his death.

Do you think we should make something of that other than what Au suggested...that people see what they want to see?

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The only problem with that "400" that saw Jesus is also in the same book to verify. Any fiction writer that says a miracle happened, then later in the book claimed 400 people saw it, does it make it true? Hardly.

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Does Religion Have a Place in the Future of Humankind?

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