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N Korea and the Donald

 
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Jun, 2018 09:52 am
@rosborne979,
I know there’s a lot of conjecture about the current location and marital status of Melania Trump.

Is there legitimate evidence as to her location? It’s not incredibly important, but I am curious.
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Jun, 2018 05:47 am
@edgarblythe,
I know. I was trying to be funny, which rarely goes well for me.
rosborne979
 
  3  
Reply Sun 3 Jun, 2018 05:51 am
@Lash,
I have no idea.

My sense of the Donald/Melania relationship is that it’s not a comfortable one. And if the US does end up in a “relationship” with N. Korea, it will not be comfortable either.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Sun 3 Jun, 2018 06:58 am
@rosborne979,
It was funny. So was my reply. Not so funny is N Korea and the Donald. Me nervous when me contemplate.
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Jun, 2018 07:16 am
@edgarblythe,
Even tortoise neck Mitch McConnell is worried about Trump being 'snookered'.

I'm cautiously optimistic.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Jun, 2018 07:20 am
@Lash,
I didn't think snookered was a phrase you used over there, due to the popularity of 8 ball pool and lack of snooker halls.

Not a criticism, just surprised to hear it that's all.
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Jun, 2018 09:02 am
@izzythepush,
A lesser-known brother of hoodwinked.
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Sun 3 Jun, 2018 09:55 am
We should start getting new clues this week, since it is only nine days away. I haven't noticed nuts like Bolton, lately, speaking out.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Jun, 2018 12:32 pm
@Lash,
Not really, in snooker there are only certain balls you're allowed to hit. If you hit any others it's a foul shot and you lose points. When you snooker an opponent you place the cue ball in a position where they do not have a clear shot, and they will have to do something tricky to avoid giving points away and setting you up.

Hoodwinking is fooling someone.
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Jun, 2018 05:47 pm
@izzythepush,
I noticed separate British and American definitions. Of course, you’re right about the British definition. I’m correct about the American...

Merriam-Webster:
snooker [entry 1, noun]
a variation of pool played with 15 red balls and 6 variously colored balls (14 of 36 words, pronunciation)
www​.merriam-webster​.com​/dictionary​/snooker [cite]


snooker [entry 2, verb] | hoodwink [synonym] | bamboozle [synonym] | beguile [synonym] | bluff [synonym] | buffalo [synonym] | burn [synonym] | catch [synonym] | con [synonym] | ...
to make a dupe of; "hoodwink" (6 of 125 words, 1 usage example)
www​.merriam-webster​.com​/dictionary​/snooker show=1 [cite]
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Jun, 2018 01:10 am
@Lash,
The expression is directly lifted from the game, Americans don't play snooker.
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Jun, 2018 02:22 am
@izzythepush,
Yes. I know. Language is fluid, constantly being shaped by different types of use.

The British meaning is derived from the game—to leave someone in a difficult position.

Our ‘translation’ or use developed to —to be deceived or fooled.
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Jun, 2018 03:19 am
Well, we’ve been wondering exactly how the June 12 meeting might go pear-shaped... Here’s a good example:

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/06/03/asia/assad-visit-kim-jong-un-intl/index.html?__twitter_impression=true

Excerpt:

Days before Kim Jong Un is set to meet US President Donald Trump in Singapore, the North Korean leader is revealing plans to meet yet another leader -- Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.

Assad will visit Kim in North Korea, the latter country's state news agency KCNA said Sunday. The report did not specify a date for the meeting, and Syrian state media has so far not reported on the planned visit.

If the meeting takes place in Pyongyang, it would be the first time a world leader has visited Kim in the capital.


0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Jun, 2018 03:59 am
@Lash,
I get the feeling that this is Americans hearing use a phrase and then misusing it, so much that it acquires its own (American) definition.

I think the same think happened with wanker, I remember talking to some Americans who thought it meant something very different.
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Jun, 2018 04:33 am
@izzythepush,
It might be as you say. Words are created in so many different ways.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Jun, 2018 04:38 am
@Lash,
I can't see it happening any other way, if Americans played a different version of snooker, like we play a different version of pool, then I'd be open to other explanations.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  3  
Reply Tue 5 Jun, 2018 07:34 am
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2018/06/04/despite-summit-diplomacy-korea-war-risks-have-risen/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=fp
So what happens now with the diplomatic poker game over the Korean Peninsula? All is not yet lost for negotiated solutions, but the risks are mounting.

A month ago, I warned in the Nikkei Asian Review of the dangers of summit diplomacy, soon after news broke of the planned meeting between U.S. President Donald Trump and North Korean leader Kim Jong Un.

No one likes to speak out against diplomacy and the pursuit of peace, especially when a real threat of military confrontation looms; but the long history of diplomacy and war tells us that ill-prepared summits readily break down, and when they do, those failures help pave the way to war.

Those risks grew on May 25 when Trump sent a letter to Kim. It was an astonishing text, unique in the annals of contemporary international politics; a letter-length tweet in the tone of voice of a petulant teenager who has been spurned by a girl, calling off their planned date but holding open hope of a new one: “please do not hesitate to call.”

The first phase of Trump’s efforts on North Korea were unusual for his presidency: They took place largely in private, involved in-depth briefings and a lot of listening, and largely avoided Tweets. Ever since his U.N. General Assembly speech last September, however, Trump’s mercurial personality has been more front and center in the drive to diplomacy. That led to an escalation of rhetoric, and of risks.

Ultimately, that escalation of risks created an option for diplomacy. Ironically, Trump’s credible threat of the use of force drove South Korea to the table, desperately seeking a diplomatic solution that would avoid the calamity of war on the Peninsula. With a desperate South and a China seeking to placate an intemperate U.S. president, Kim sensed and seized the opportunity, in short order meeting South Korea’s President Moon Jae-in and President Xi Jinping of China.

The meeting of the two Korean leaders produced only a watery agreement to agree at a later phase on issues to be agreed. But Kim was riding high, and Trump moved to get in on the act with his own offer of a summit, followed by a stunning indication that the U.S. was willing to pull its troops out of the South in exchange for denuclearization—basically meeting Kim’s terms.

That is when things started to fall apart. Although Trump himself is clearly willing to negotiate away the U.S. troop commitment to the South, the rest of his team—and indeed, the entire rest of the U.S. political system—is not, and the system pushed back, hard. That includes new National Security Advisor John Bolton. There has been a lot of commentary about how with Bolton he has found a like-minded national security advisor; but that is inaccurate. Bolton is like-tempered, to be sure; but except for Iran, when he shares Trump’s contempt for the nuclear pact (the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action), Bolton rejects Trump’s anti-alliance, anti-leadership posture as much as his predecessor, Gen. H.R. McMaster. And neither Bolton nor Gen. John Kelly, the White House chief of staff, nor Defense Secretary James Mattis were about to let Trump trade away the American position in South Korea, and certainly not for hollow statements from Kim about the future promise of denuclearization.

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Bolton laid this bare when he spoke on the American weekend news shows about the “Libya model” of denuclearization. Perhaps it was poorly chosen phraseology, since Libya eventually became the subject of U.S.-led regime dismantlement, as former leader Moammar Gadhafi was overthrown and killed.

But what Bolton was actually saying is a view far more widely held: that only rapid, verified, complete dismantlement and removal of North Korea’s nuclear infrastructure constitutes an acceptable outcome on the Korean Peninsula.

Kim reacted furiously, blasting Bolton and the U.S. as a whole. And in so doing, Kim managed to reveal that the North is still hewing to its long-held position that it will only pursue genuine denuclearization in exchanges for an end to the U.S. alliance with the South. Long-time North Korea watchers were wholly unsurprised.

Now what? I do not rule out that we still see a Singapore summit on June 12, or thereabouts. There are silver linings here. An underappreciated one is that over the past year, Kim’s dramatic escalation of testing and risk-taking has pushed China’s underlying position closer to the U.S’s. Whereas China long viewed denuclearization as its third priority in the Peninsula, after stability and peace, many within the upper reaches of Chinese foreign policy now recognize that there will be neither peace nor stability unless Kim denuclearizes in full.

Of course, there are still important differences between the U.S. and the Chinese positions: The U.S. is offering an easing of sanctions and economic openings only after full denuclearization, whereas China believes that Kim should get step-by-step benefits for his moves to diplomacy, and has already eased border sanctions as recognition for his coming to the table.

And Kim must now recognize that he is not playing with quite the strong hand he thought. Look past the cringe-inducing tone of the letter, and the fact is that Trump has, in his own strange way, managed to convey the following things to Kim: He is genuinely willing to go to war; he is genuinely willing to make peace; and he is willing to walk away from a deal if it is not a good deal. That confronts Kim with an existential choice: a genuine deal, or war.

Much can still go wrong. The risks of war are higher now than before the drive to the summit. But diplomacy can still succeed, if Trump allows Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and his team to drive the strategy, and allows Pompeo and Bolton to wield the Trump personality as a negotiating lever. On North Korea, we have seen disciplined Trump, unpredictable Trump, and petulant Trump. If Pompeo, Bolton and Mattis can do enough to reassure South Korea and Japan; if Trump himself maintains his relationships with Xi; and if the team plays their unwieldly and tempestuous president cleverly, this is the one arena where the “mad man” theory of the presidency can produce results. If it fails now, we are well on our way to war.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jun, 2018 04:44 pm
"But what Bolton was actually saying is a view far more widely held: that only rapid, verified, complete dismantlement and removal of North Korea’s nuclear infrastructure constitutes an acceptable outcome on the Korean Peninsula."

For the DPRK the only acceptable outcome on the Korean Peninsula is the removal of US troops therefrom. They are an existential threat to them. Their nukes, while terrifying, aren't at that level of threat to the US. Their nukes do not pose an existential threat to the US. Trump looks to want to accommodate the DPRK's position seeing as how he wants to pull the US military out of as much of the world as he can and let these other nations take care of themselves. It seems that a quid pro quo is achievable between these two leaders. The question is, how earnest are they in their pursuit of a resolution to their differences.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Jun, 2018 01:15 pm
Quote:
Donald Trump's lawyer Rudy Giuliani has said North Korea's leader "begged" for their summit to be rescheduled after the US president cancelled it.

Speaking at a conference in Israel, Mr Giuliani said Mr Trump's tough stance had forced Pyongyang's hand.

Mr Trump called off the summit in May, accusing North Korea of "tremendous anger and open hostility".

But plans for the 12 June bilateral in Singapore were revived after a conciliatory response from Pyongyang.

Mr Giuliani was speaking at an investment conference in Israel when he made the remark.

The Wall Street Journal first reported that Mr Giuliani said: "Well, Kim Jong-un got back on his hands and knees and begged for it, which is exactly the position you want to put him in."

Mr Giuliani is an attorney for the president tackling the Russia collusion inquiry.

There was no immediate response from the North Koreans to his comments.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44390112
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Wed 6 Jun, 2018 01:17 pm
“People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.”
― Bill Watterson, Calvin And Hobbes
 

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