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Disecting the dead

 
 
Reply Wed 26 Jan, 2005 03:57 am
Have any of you heard of the german anatomist Gunther von Hagens and his Bodyworks exhibits?

He has discovered a formula called plastinisation where he can preserve a dead body(dead people who, while they were alive,said he could use them) and uses them to display to the public so they can learn about the anatomy.It can be seen as art or education,alot of people see it as neither.

The last couple of night there has been a programme on TV called Anatomy for Beginners.
It shows Von Hagens and another anatomist cutting up a donated male body(in an upright position).They cut off the skin in 1 piece9he pointed out that Michealangelo painted peeled skin in his depiction of St Bartholemew),cut open his skull showing the brains which are like jelly,cut out the spine and showed how muscles work by pulling at the tenons so the hand moves into a clasping shape.

It was amazing.I just wondered if you guys had heard of him and what you think of it.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 4,319 • Replies: 19
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Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Jan, 2005 04:03 am
Gives a whole new meaning to the phrase "gross anatomy."
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Montana
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Jan, 2005 04:03 am
I've never heard of him, but I think using a real body is the best way to teach medical students, so since the doner was all for it, I see nothing wrong with it.
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Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Jan, 2005 04:10 am
I see nothing wrong with the method of teaching. I think that putting it on television is in questionable taste, however.
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material girl
 
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Reply Wed 26 Jan, 2005 04:17 am
Its on at 11pm so its not like its put on at peak time for squeemish people to stumble across.

It was so strange to think of it as a real body,after a while i just thought it was something Id see in a film.

Luckily they covered the doners face, I assume out of respect for the relatives.Don think Id like to see someone I knew and loved being dissected.

I think its amazing how far we have come.Im sure in history there must have been a point where if people were discovered disecting a body they would have been arrested or at least thought of as disturbed.
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annifa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Jan, 2005 04:45 am
I saw von Hagens Bodyworks exhibition in London, but I'm not sure what I think of it. It was fascinating, however, I'm not sure what his purpose is.
Some of it was quite disturbing, especially the baby and child section.. I found it upsetting to look at.
What is his motivation for his work? Does he want to show the bodies in a scientific perspective? The fact that I went to see the exbition as part of an Art trip with school disputes this. I can understand why artists would want to know the muscle structure etc of the human body to make drawings more accurate.. but can dead bodies be seen as Art?
I also think that his referring to his televised autopsy a few years ago as a "show" was perhaps slightly inappropriate.
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material girl
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Jan, 2005 05:30 am
I dont primarily see it as entertainment or art.
The bodyworks bodies were posed and placed in what could be seen as artistic poses.I suppose to anyone other than anatomy students a corpse lying on a slab wouldnt be interesting but displaying them as Von Hagens did, draws in a new group of people.

I think its a new way of looking at the human form.I agree I think if i saw the mother/baby Id find it upsetting too but again its how the body looks.No more prop body parts or books but the real thing.
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MissFox
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Jan, 2005 02:23 pm
I also saw the bodyworks exhibit in London. I wasn't exactly sure what to think. Some of it struck me as an amazingly beautiful, yet extremely strange form of art, while others portions of the exhibit were quite disturbing. It was hard to believe they were actually real human bodies. The scariest part was that some of the exhibits were not mounted that well and I nearly knocked one over. What a scene that would have been.
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Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Jan, 2005 02:54 pm
I've read about the exhibit. I think I'd like to see it, and judging from the discussion above, it provokes thought and discussion. Any artist would love to generate that kind of response...
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shewolfnm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Jan, 2005 03:02 pm
I too would love to see this exhibit.
These kinds of things facinate me
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jpinMilwaukee
 
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Reply Wed 26 Jan, 2005 03:29 pm
There were rumors that only some of the bodies were donated. The towns people didn't trust him and started talking about him robbing graves. The final straw was a new statue soon after his wife mysteriously disappeared. It is all speculation but freaky non-the-less.
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material girl
 
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Reply Thu 27 Jan, 2005 03:15 am
Apparently some of the first bodies he worked on werent donated.
I have no idea where youd get bodies from!!


Last episode was him dissecting the chest, showing the rib cage,he inflated the lungs,cut out the heart and sliced it in 2.
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jackiesimkins
 
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Reply Fri 28 Jan, 2005 07:22 am
plastinisation
Dear Material Girl, I watched the Anatomy for Beginners programme and thought it was gruesome but fascinating! It was amazing how they injected dye into the circulatory system and then dissolved the rest of the body leaving all the veins and arteries on show, awesome.
What does any one else think?
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Erica22
 
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Reply Thu 10 Feb, 2005 01:44 am
I saw the exhibit in LA this past Fall. I'm a chiropractic student and it was an optional field trip organized by our school. I thought it was cool, but being in only my first term I could only get so much out of it. It'd be cool to see again after learning all the intricate details of anatomy in a few years. The skill of the dissections are amazing, I can say at least amongst my fellow students it's a much "messier" look, without each detail so cleaningly separated and identifiable. A phrase one of my professors uses is "Dissect like an Artist," and this guy epitomizes that. Too bad we can't borrow his cadavers for out test Wink I hadn't heard about the TV show though, but would be interested in seeing it; when is it and what channel?
Oh-and has anyone else heard about him possibly adding more to it? I heard this might be happening from a classmate..
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Erica22
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Feb, 2005 01:50 am
It is true!
http://www.koerperwelten.de/en/pages/ausstellung_asien.asp
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material girl
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Feb, 2005 02:56 am
Jackiesimkins-Yep I thought that bit was amazing too.
The veins and arteries couldnt bee seen easily when they were dissecting but that view of them was astonishing, so impressive.Like a web of veins.
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annifa
 
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Reply Fri 11 Feb, 2005 08:29 am
Some boys kiss me, some boys hug me
I think they're O.K.
If they don't give me proper credit
I just walk away
They can beg and they can plead
But they can't see the light, that's right
'Cause the boy with the cold hard cash
Is always Mister Right, 'cause we are
Living in a material world
And I am a material girl.
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material girl
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2005 04:42 am
Annifa, thanks for that.It took me into a diamond,red satin clad, men adorned image.
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danielR2003
 
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Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2005 06:17 am
chemicals used
Guys,

It is my wish to have my body preserved by plastonisation, however id like to be plastonised in australia if at all possible

I know one of the chemicals used is acetone.... but does anyone know what other chemicals are used in the process, as id like to try and plastonise animals aswell as humans for display in museums and art galeries.

sincerely

Daniel
sharell12
 
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Reply Thu 9 Sep, 2010 09:38 pm
@danielR2003,
Hi Daniel Personally I do not find the idea of plastinisation morbid, creepy, gross or in any of that sphere of genre. I think it is totally fascinating. The human body is an amazing thing. Class plastinisation as art or whatever you want - I guess each individual sees it how they want to. Personally I think the majority of people who are repulsed or shocked or see this in a negative light do it because once a person becomes a "decedant" they are suddenly moved into a taboo category - that of the corpse. How many people in our western culture would be terrified to be locked in a room with the "corpse" of somebody who in life they had lived with and loved? When we do see death we usually see it sanitised by "embalming" and "beautification" in an attempt to basically make the body look more alive so we can hopefully think of the person as just asleep or something very less disturbing than DEAD. I am just posting this to say that it takes a lot to freak me out. But the thought that somebody would just post a blog on here asking if anyone happens to know what chemicals are involved in the process of plastinisation because they just wanna give the process a go I find very very disturbing. The plastinisation process as performed by Gunther von Hagen takes 12 months to complete and costs in excess of $US40 000 per person (with the specialised equipment on hand). Hopefully the amount of time and money taken to perform the process puts it out of the reach of any Tom, Dick or Daniel who just gets an urge to try and do it. I must admit the idea that the guy down the road would just have an urge to duplicate this process and then have a go at it falls into the genre of what i would classify as horror.
Sharon

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