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Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

 
 
livinglava
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jan, 2020 05:56 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

the lands being slowly inundted are also causing the newly planted trees (the banks ner Avalon) to drown. An entire area around Salem NJ is overlying deep sand reav=ches in which entire forests were inundated and logged out after the 1850;s. Replanting has been a false hope because the salt water weges underlying the fresh ground water has forced the ground water to rise .

What is this in response to? What are you trying to explain by posting this information?

Quote:
Delaware used to hve an effective "Coastal Zoning ACt" which was supposed to consider inundation due to Climte Change. This went into effect in the late 70's and the Developers fought is and , because they hired and paid for a lot of the hillbilly state legislators, they got their way. Delaware is now built up to the shoreline and almost as densely as NJ. A good storm will happen within my lifetime and wipe away many houses, but the developer will still come back and build.
I feel that, before we get too fancy about what trees to plnt qnd what riprin zones, we should make laws that say,
"If your house gets swept in a storm once, insurance will cover. If it gets swept twice, we aint payin you squat. Ya wanna rebuild, its your personal nickel. I feel that insurance is too accessible .

Yes, I think people build/buy property in risk zones like a form of gambling. They WANT disaster to happen so they can cash in on the insurance policy.

I don't know why you mention this in the same breath with tree-planting, though, since restoring and replanting soil is something that can be done any time a parcel of land is being redeveloped.

If people are modifying a property in some way, why shouldn't they reduce the building and pavement footprints and restore living soil and tree canopy? If this was a general habit throughout the world, carbon would be sequestered everywhere humans live instead of only where undeveloped land is protected/preserved.

I read today an article claiming that tree-planting is not enough and that Republicans are supporting it as a distraction from other climate interventions; but the reality is that humans have displaced soil/trees with buildings and pavement and there is no reason not to reverse that trend in addition to all other efforts to reduce energy use, increase renewable energy use, reform industrial consumer behavior/business, etc etc.

Denialism isn't the only problem these days. It's people who don't deny climate, but they frame reforms in ways that discourage and/or reject/ignore those that they find less convenient. E.g. some people will say EV's replacing ICV's is sufficient when, in fact, total motor-vehicle numbers should go down as much as possible, along with the amount of paved land. That, along with other reforms, such as reducing the amount of heated/cooled indoor spaces are loathed so people will claim that other reforms, such as better insulation and more renewable energy will suffice, i.e. so they don't have to face the challenges of reducing driving and heating/cooling as normal parts of culture (not to mention meat-eating).
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  0  
Reply Tue 28 Jan, 2020 11:49 pm
Once again, stunning ignorance coupled with overweening arrogance. The Coastal Barrier Resources Act of 1982, which had bi-partisan support and was quickly signed by Reagan was intended to protect millions of acres of coastal areas and barrier islands on the Atlantic coast, the Gulf coast and the shores of the Great Lakes. While the federal government, state governments and commercial developers are barred from CBRA areas, private development is not prohibited. Home owners in those areas want exclusive neighborhoods with dramatic views, and no public housing to mar the effect with actual poor people. The problem with the CBRA is that these protected areas are crucial ecological areas. With all federal agencies and funds barred, the Corps of Engineers cannot do anything to shore up the coast lines (and shouldn't be allowed to do so). But this leads to sand "mining" where sand from one CBRA is scooped up to shore up another CBRA area. This interference in these crucial ecological niches is bad for the local flora and fauna, and due to a lacuna in the legislation, is usually motivated by the desire of private home owners to protect their coastal or lake-front property. Some gamble--certainly the private home owners are gambling, and they pay high insurance rates, but they receive benefits from the CBRA that no home owners elsewhere enjoy.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Sat 1 Feb, 2020 11:28 am
Although whales and fishing had coexisted for decades, suddenly the whales increasingly got caught up in fishermen’s crab ropes.
By 2016, on Californian coast there were more than 50 recorded entanglements that left whales injured or killed. Whales got ropes tangled around their mouths, making it difficult for them to eat. Crab lines cut through tissue and caused infections.

A new study published in the journal Nature Communications points at climate breakdown as a factor in the mass entanglements.

Habitat compression and ecosystem shifts as potential links between marine heatwave and record whale entanglements
Quote:
Abstract
Climate change and increased variability and intensity of climate events, in combination with recovering protected species populations and highly capitalized fisheries, are posing new challenges for fisheries management. We examine socio-ecological features of the unprecedented 2014–2016 northeast Pacific marine heatwave to understand the potential causes for record numbers of whale entanglements in the central California Current crab fishery. We observed habitat compression of coastal upwelling, changes in availability of forage species (krill and anchovy), and shoreward distribution shift of foraging whales. We propose that these ecosystem changes, combined with recovering whale populations, contributed to the exacerbation of entanglements throughout the marine heatwave. In 2016, domoic acid contamination prompted an unprecedented delay in the opening of California’s Dungeness crab fishery that inadvertently intensified the spatial overlap between whales and crab fishery gear. We present a retroactive assessment of entanglements to demonstrate that cooperation of fishers, resource managers, and scientists could mitigate future entanglement risk by developing climate-ready fisheries approaches, while supporting thriving fishing communities.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2020 01:26 pm
Climate Change Predictions Have Suddenly Gone Catastrophic. This Is Why

The latest climate models have unexpectedly started to predict nightmarish warming scenarios. Now, scientists are scrambling to understand why, and if they can be trusted.

Quote:
What would happen if the Earth’s temperature went up a couple of degrees, or if carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions doubled? All signs point to terrible effects, from widespread heatwaves to negative impacts on biodiversity. Now, scientists’ predictions have unexpectedly gotten even worse.

Some recent models have even predicted temperature increases in excess of 5 degrees celcius if CO2 emissions, which are setting records, double—an increase of just 3 degrees is expected to be devastating for humanity. In a study of these recent models, researchers found a surprising reason for the change: clouds.

Climate modelers rely on a centralized set of guidelines that enables comparison among their models. The models from this generation will be used to inform this year’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) report and shape policy decisions to mitigate climate change. The world is already worryingly close to the temperature limits set in the Paris climate agreement, so the predictions of the latest climate models come as dire news.

“Most of the differences among models in climate sensitivity come from the clouds,” said Paulo Ceppi, a co-author of the study. “And that's basically because it's really hard to simulate clouds accurately in climate models.”

Ceppi and his co-authors compared models from the two most recent generations of guidelines based on climate sensitivity, a metric that describes the amount of surface warming a doubling in CO2 emissions would produce. Their study was published last month in the journal Geophysical Research Letters.

While the previous generation of climate models predicted on average a climate sensitivity of 3.3 Kelvin, the authors found that the most recent models average a climate sensitivity of 3.9 K. Additionally, the ranges of climate sensitivity produced by these models grew, from between 2.1 and 4.7 K to between 1.8 and 5.6 K.

Mark Zelinka, the first author of the study, said in an email that the only dramatic change between the two generations of models was how climate warming due to cloud cover had been incorporated. He explained that clouds reflect some sunlight that hits them, and as the planet warms from CO2 emissions, cloud cover will decrease. This in turn causes a positive feedback loop and further warms the climate.

Ceppi added that clouds also have their own greenhouse effects and can act as a blanket in the same way as greenhouse gases. The strength of this property depends on how high a cloud is, adding another layer of complexity that has only recently been incorporated into models.

Just because clouds are being modeled more realistically does not make the model as a whole better, though. In a preprint under review for the journal Earth System Dynamics, researchers at the University of Exeter looked at whether high estimates of climate sensitivity made sense in the context of historical observations.

First author Femke Nijsse said she was spurred to look into sensitivity because the last IPCC report considered a likely range to be lower than what several new models have predicted.

“We were quite surprised that this new generation of models showed quite a few models with a very high sensitivity,” she said.

Nijsse and her team found that at least six current models were inconsistent with historical climate data, likely because of the new cloud modelling.

Ceppi agreed that some of the models predicting a higher sensitivity than before may be unrealistic; this presents a “bit of tension,” since these new models were designed to better represent the climate processes that occur in clouds.

“On the one hand, they should be better, but on the other hand, at least some of these models seem to produce sensitivities that are too high compared with observed temperature changes,” he said. “That's a bit of a puzzle there, that's something we need to resolve.”

While there is some disagreement among the different climate models, Zelinka stressed that the next IPCC report, scheduled for release in 2022, will take into account a number of measurements concerning climate sensitivity. Even so, differences of a Kelvin or two still lead to similar general conclusions, he said.

“In some ways we are splitting hairs when it is well known that CO2 heats the Earth and that even a small amount of global warming is—on the whole—bad for society.”

vice
livinglava
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2020 03:23 pm
@hightor,
hightor wrote:

Climate Change Predictions Have Suddenly Gone Catastrophic. This Is Why

Climate change is real, but the political reality is that the left makes the prognosis worse when they are unhappy politically, and better when they are getting what they want.

It's sort of like saying, "if politics/economics is going the way we want it to, then there's hope for the climate . . . and otherwise not"

The reality is that the climate is a reflection of what's going on with the biosphere and below, so the more human activities disrupt the natural functioning of the planet, the more the climate is going to change.

Likewise, the more harmoniously human activities are with natural ecosystemic functioning, the more hope there is for long-term sustainability of climate and other resources.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2020 06:05 pm
@hightor,
As recently as ten years ago, we were being told that the Antarctic ice sheets might start breaking up in 50 to 100 years. However, in 2017, a tabular iceberg the size of Delaware (more than 2000 square miles) broke off, and just last year, an iceberg the size of the state of Florida broke off. The latter was sitting on rock, so as it slips into the ocean, the effect will probably be profound.

The process is moving much, much faster than had been thought. I'm sure the conservatives/tories will continue to deny this--after all, so many of their money boys are in the energy industry.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2020 06:27 pm
@hightor,
I'm gonna steal the link for this and use it in my climate change thread--thanks, Boss.
0 Replies
 
livinglava
 
  0  
Reply Sat 8 Feb, 2020 10:24 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
I'm sure the conservatives/tories will continue to deny this--after all, so many of their money boys are in the energy industry.

You seem to think that the left/labor is immune from economic interests but nothing could be farther from the truth.

In order to keep the economy growing to create jobs and tax revenues, they need to protect the industries that generate the most revenues and thus taxable corporate income.

So when they talk about carbon taxes, etc. it is not with a real goal to reduce the economic activity that harms the climate UNLESS the economy can find a way to do so and still shoulder the tax burden.

The moment the carbon tax causes negative growth, they would abate or eliminate it because they want to maintain growth and only institute reform insofar as it doesn't obstruct growth and the harnessing thereof to 'lift all boats,' so to speak.

The reality is that if the majority of people in industrial-consumer markets shifted to actually reducing personal motor-vehicle ownership by switching to public transit and if other reforms were actually instituted to reduce the per capita energy/resource footprint of consumers in lucrative markets, the financial markets would lose their grip and maintaining that grip that economic dependency gives them is more important to them than reforming climate.

Likewise, for the left that economic dependency is also important because it is how they leverage the power needed to move resources around to those who need access to them, including themselves.

So there's no one on either side of the political spectrum that is really willing to reduce the footprint of industrial consumerism until some method of maintaining economic dependency is secured that doesn't involve everyone having multi-year car loans, insurance payments, etc.

This is why big investment plans involving EVs, infrastructure investments, carbon capture, etc. are all favored over simply reducing motor-vehicle ownership and infrastructure/pavement by shifting more people to public transit. Everything has to pass a 'big spending' test or it is dismissed as irrelevant; i.e. because growth is king and the left is as much or more to blame for the growth-lust as conservatives, who are probably mostly just aware that there's no way to eliminate fossil fuels in current economic markets yet.

The moment markets make the choice to forego/reduce fossil fuel usage on a large scale, conservatives will have to allow it because they can't/won't force fuel/transportation/infrastructure dependency the way socialists will in the interest of guaranteeing growth and revenues. Conservatives simply want to keep working to serve free markets and keep what they make by doing so. They don't have an interest in controlling demand the way socialists do.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Feb, 2020 02:25 pm
@livinglava,
Seem? You have no idea what I think. In fact, the petroleum industry is the single largest emitter of methane on the planet. Mr. Obama required them to practice methane abatement in 2016. President Plump rescinded that executive order with an executive order of his own just last year. Protecting jobs at such a drastic cost to the next generations is an idiotic idea, and commensurate with what passes for thought in your posts.
livinglava
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 8 Feb, 2020 03:09 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

Seem? You have no idea what I think. In fact, the petroleum industry is the single largest emitter of methane on the planet. Mr. Obama required them to practice methane abatement in 2016. President Plump rescinded that executive order with an executive order of his own just last year. Protecting jobs at such a drastic cost to the next generations is an idiotic idea, and commensurate with what passes for thought in your posts.

Every time the Obama administration enacted some environmental/climate regulation, it was always obvious that they were doing something to look like they were making progress while protecting every interest that would be harmed economically if more were done.

It's like what the Democrats do is: 1) figure out what policies can be enacted that won't hurt GDP growth, then 2) enact rules that will trigger more spending, fines, and/or taxes, and finally 3) accuse their opponents of rolling back progress when they see through their pretend-progress and stop them from taxing industries they have no actual intention of reducing because doing so would reduce growth and thus jobs and tax revenues.

Face it, the Democrats are not ever going to do anything that's against their growth interests, and the fact that they figure out little things to do that they can advertise as 'progress' makes them more effective at preserving the status quo than Republicans.
farmerman
 
  5  
Reply Sat 8 Feb, 2020 04:32 pm
@livinglava,
Mr Trump is the one who is abandoning the clean water act and is "ordering" the coal industry to once again be free to pollute the water and air while market forces alone are driving coal into energy irrelevancy, (sorta like charcoal smelting iron).

I see the GOP ads are already being run on cable TV, and done in a fashion to sound like "Lies are Truth", and you peopl buy it without question.

livinglava
 
  2  
Reply Sat 8 Feb, 2020 04:52 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

Mr Trump is the one who is abandoning the clean water act and is "ordering" the coal industry to once again be free to pollute the water and air while market forces alone are driving coal into energy irrelevancy, (sorta like charcoal smelting iron).

I see the GOP ads are already being run on cable TV, and done in a fashion to sound like "Lies are Truth", and you peopl buy it without question.

Well, we may eventually look back and say the Trump administration actually helped make the Democrats greenwashing of their status-quo protection politics look better by cancelling policies that were never that great environmentally to begin with, but seemed 'better than nothing' after they were cancelled.

What the Trump administration should do each time it cancels such a policy is to put out information about how the public and industry/business can achieve the same or better standards of environmental care by voluntary best practices.

Then, when industries and individuals do things that pollute, etc. they can be cited as falling short of the responsible exercise of liberty by reference to the administration vision published at the time regulations were rolled back.

Basically, the GOP just needs to have a clear vision about how the environment/climate will be protected by free people and industries, so that the public and media will be free to assess how well we did with just our own liberty once the regulations have been rolled back.

Of course the problem is that there are those who want to cause liberty to fail in order to justify more regulation because of all the jobs, fines, fees, etc. that can be created to solve problems that people don't voluntarily solve by themselves.

Once people and business actually care about handling their own liberty responsibly by voluntarily choosing best practices, that will be the realization of the American Dream. Until then, it's just people trying to get away with murder in order to get more police, lawyers, and prison guards hired, which is not the purpose of liberty.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Feb, 2020 05:26 pm
@livinglava,
I have no reason to accept your ipse dixit claims.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Feb, 2020 05:22 am
@Setanta,
during the mid Cretaceous the worldwide Carbon level was about a mqx of 1100ppm, (thats almost 3 tims higher than it is now. Thats really not good news since we are catching up at a very rapid rate. It appears (from C,O, an CO2 and CH4 gas sampling from anatarctic cores.Data from these cores correlates with the oceanic stratigraphy that the Antarctic and arctic were ice free by the time it was only around 500 ppm.

We are at about 390 ppm now (I believe) as a planet level so we are well on the road to ice free high latitudes (and the cascade of effcts that will no doubt allow us to "enjoy".



Welcome back to the Albian/ Cenomanian Ages.

BLOW THIS CHART UPICS CHRONOSTRATIGRAPHIC CHART

print it out and keep it next to our computers, its the latest international geological time chart. Theyre always screwing with it as they try to adust the dates to ound like we know the dates down to the week, and we are only orta accurate with these.

Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Mon 10 Feb, 2020 12:46 pm
@farmerman,
Many coastal regions in Europe are in danger from rising sea levels - even under the most optimistic climate change models. It isn't just rising sea levels that Europe has to worry about. Climate change will also lead to longer and more frequent severe droughts in many parts of Europe*, increasing and more severe forest fires in western-central Europe and southern Europe and an increase in the likelihood of flash floods across much of Europe.
The European Environment Agency has released a series of interactive maps visualizing how Europe could be affected by climate change. Climate Change Impacts in Europe includes a number of individual maps which show the impact of droughts, flooding, forest fires and rising sea levels under different climate change models.

Climate change impacts in Europe

*Maps from my country: German Drough Monitor (in English, but more on the German website)
livinglava
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Feb, 2020 05:27 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Many coastal regions in Europe are in danger from rising sea levels

How much do the dikes push up sea level outside the dikes?

How much potential do land-reclamation projects worldwide have for raising sea levels?

Doesn't moving material from on land to under water displace water the same as when ice on land falls into the ocean?

I assume the effect of humans moving land-based material into the oceans pales in comparison to ice that's melting and/or breaking off and falling into the oceans, but there is also no shortage of industrial activity devoted to ocean shipping and land-reclamation activities that displace ocean water in the direction of other, less-protected shorelines.
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Wed 12 Feb, 2020 03:25 pm
'The Saddest Thing Is That It Won't Be Breaking News': Concentration of CO2 Hits Record High of 416 ppm
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2020 12:18 am
@livinglava,
Take a look at a globe. It's a;l; one ocean, it's just got different names in different places, but it's all one body of watder, and more than three fotiny.urths of the surface is water. Athe water pumped out from low areas behind a dike doesn't bulk up in front of the dike, it joins that one great big body of water and just increases it by a minuscule amount, because in relation to the total amount of water in the one big ovean,m it's really tiny/
livinglava
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2020 06:29 am
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:

Take a look at a globe. It's a;l; one ocean, it's just got different names in different places, but it's all one body of watder, and more than three fotiny.urths of the surface is water. Athe water pumped out from low areas behind a dike doesn't bulk up in front of the dike, it joins that one great big body of water and just increases it by a minuscule amount, because in relation to the total amount of water in the one big ovean,m it's really tiny/

Couldn't you say the same thing about ice breaking off land and falling into the water, or melting permafrost?
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2020 06:35 am
@livinglava,
The order of magnitude is very different. The amount of ice melting in the ocean far exceeds the amount of water pumped out from low areas reclaimed from the sea.
 

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