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Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

 
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Sat 14 Dec, 2019 07:40 pm
@Olivier5,
No it's not.

It is a left/right issue to the extent that the global left wishes to redistribute the wealth of the West

You and hightor can go on and on about "context" but it is perfectly clear that the global left has latched on to CC as a means to implement its agenda
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Sun 15 Dec, 2019 03:24 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Hey great! So burning fossil fuels doesn't do any harm because plants use CO2 during the process of photosynthesis. I'm surprised no one thought of that before. Well that's great news, Finn. Thanks so much.

Quote:
...but it is perfectly clear that the global left has latched on to CC as a means to implement its agenda


Which is just what I told you. It has nothing to do with the science behind climate change, it's a political problem which has developed to deal with the crisis caused by industrial CO2 pollution from burning fossil fuels and attempts to mitigate the effects. The global right, rather than engaging with the problem and coming up with its own solutions is simply denying that the problem exists. So of course all the movement is from those on the left. Anyone can see that.
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Sun 15 Dec, 2019 04:36 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
You're bat-**** crazy. Nobody tries to redistribute "the wealth if the West". Where do you read this ****?

You can hord on to your wealth all you want, while you can. I wish you get burried with it when you die.
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Sun 15 Dec, 2019 04:41 am
@hightor,
Plenty of "global rightists" recognise the problem. The use of GW as a wedge political issue between left and righg is essentially an American problem.
hightor
 
  3  
Reply Sun 15 Dec, 2019 04:57 am
@Olivier5,
Quote:
The use of GW as a wedge political issue between left and righg is essentially an American problem.

Well okay. But Finn and I live in the USA so the simplistic binary distinction is useful. So let me repeat. If the only proposed solutions Finn sees seem to be originating from the "left", that's not because the underlying science is wrong, it's because the fossil fuel industry and the politicians who support it (who all happen to be on the "right") aren't developing solutions and continue to deny that there's even a problem.
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Sun 15 Dec, 2019 05:05 am
A whopping 91% of plastic isn't recycled

Billions of tons of plastic have been made over the past decades, and much of it is becoming trash and litter, finds the first analysis of the issue.

Quote:
Mass production of plastics, which began just six decades ago, has accelerated so rapidly that it has created 8.3 billion metric tons—most of it in disposable products that end up as trash. If that seems like an incomprehensible quantity, it is. Even the scientists who set out to conduct the world’s first tally of how much plastic has been produced, discarded, burned or put in landfills, were horrified by the sheer size of the numbers.

“We all knew there was a rapid and extreme increase in plastic production from 1950 until now, but actually quantifying the cumulative number for all plastic ever made was quite shocking,” says Jenna Jambeck, a University of Georgia environmental engineer who specializes in studying plastic waste in the oceans.

“This kind of increase would ‘break’ any system that was not prepared for it, and this is why we have seen leakage from global waste systems into the oceans,” she says.

Plastic takes more than 400 years to degrade, so most of it still exists in some form. Only 12 percent has been incinerated.

The study was launched two years ago as scientists tried to get a handle on the gargantuan amount of plastic that ends up in the seas and the harm it is causing to birds, marine animals, and fish. The prediction that by mid-century, the oceans will contain more plastic waste than fish, ton for ton, has become one of the most-quoted statistics and a rallying cry to do something about it.

The new study, published Wednesday in the peer-reviewed journal Science Advances, is the first global analysis of all plastics ever made—and their fate. Of the 8.3 billion metric tons that has been produced, 6.3 billion metric tons has become plastic waste. Of that, only nine percent has been recycled. The vast majority—79 percent—is accumulating in landfills or sloughing off in the natural environment as litter. Meaning: at some point, much of it ends up in the oceans, the final sink.

If present trends continue, by 2050, there will be 12 billion metric tons of plastic in landfills. That amount is 35,000 times as heavy as the Empire State Building. (Learn about one possible future solution.)

Roland Geyer, the study’s lead author, says the team of scientists are trying to create a foundation for better managing plastic products. “You can’t manage what you don’t measure,” he says. “It’s not just that we make a lot, it’s that we also make more, year after year.”

Half the resins and fibers used in plastics were produced in the last 13 years, the study found. China alone accounts for 28 percent of global resin and 68 percent of polyester polyamide and acrylic fibers.

Geyer, an engineer by training, specializes in industrial ecology as a professor at the University of California, Santa Barbara. He has studied various metals and how they’re used and managed. The rapid acceleration of plastic manufacturing, which so far has doubled roughly every 15 years, has outpaced nearly every other man-made material. And, it is unlike virtually every other material. Half of all steel produced, for example, is used in construction, with a decades-long lifespan. Half of all plastic manufactured becomes trash in less than a year, the study found.

Much of the growth in plastic production has been the increased use of plastic packaging, which accounts for more than 40 percent of non-fiber plastic.

The same team, led by Jambeck, produced the first study that assessed the amount of plastic trash that flows into the oceans annually. That research, published in 2015, estimated that 8 million metric tons of plastic ends up in the oceans every year. That is the equivalent to five grocery bags of plastic trash for every foot of coastline around the globe.

“We weren’t aware of the implications for plastic ending up in our environment until it was already there,” Jambeck says. “Now we have a situation where we have to come from behind to catch up.”

Gaining control of plastic waste is now such a large task that it calls for a comprehensive, global approach, Jambeck says, that involves rethinking plastic chemistry, product design, recycling strategies, and consumer use. The United States ranks behind Europe (30 percent) and China (25 percent) in recycling, the study found. Recycling in the U.S. has remained at nine percent since 2012.

“We as a society need to consider whether it’s worth trading off some convenience for a clean, healthy environment,” Geyer says. “For some products that are very problematic in the environment, maybe we think about using different materials. Or phasing them out.”

natgeo
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sun 15 Dec, 2019 06:17 am
@hightor,
Climate negotiators reach watered-down deal at COP25
Quote:
Negotiatiors at the the UN climate summit in Madrid agreed Sunday to a deal aimed at averting a global warming disaster, though one that pushed key decisions to a future date.

The marathon talks went into overtime, extending more than 36 hours past the expected conclusion date and making COP25 the longest UN climate conference to date.

Disagreements over how ambitiously to tackle the climate crisis — and who should pay for it — had stymied an agreement.

The final agreement was far from the bold call to action that climate-protection proponents had hoped for. Many of the delegates expressed disappointment over the outcome of the conference.

Scientists have pointed to abnormal extreme weather phenomenon as partial evidence of the man-made destabilization of Earth's climate system. Activists have argued that governments need to do more to reduce greenhouse emissions, citing the potential for irreversible conditions.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Dec, 2019 06:39 am
@hightor,
Quote:
the simplistic binary distinction is useful

It may be useful to win an election -- and winning elections is important but beyond that, what's more important is to actually decarbon the nation's economy. And whether you live in America or anywhere else, you need broad national consensus in order to do that. Because there will be other elections down the road which you may lose. Even if the dems get full control of Washington for 15 years, the example of the gillet jaunes in France show that efforts to tax carbon can be effectively frustrated by a minority of citizens.
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Sun 15 Dec, 2019 08:20 am
@Olivier5,
Quote:
It may be useful to win an election...

But in this case it has nothing to do with winning an election. I'm just trying to explain something very simple to Finn.
Quote:
Even if the dems get full control of Washington for 15 years, the example of the gillet jaunes in France show that efforts to tax carbon can be effectively frustrated by a minority of citizens.

That's a very sobering point.
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Dec, 2019 02:16 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Truth hurts? I was posting as a republican.
0 Replies
 
livinglava
 
  0  
Reply Sun 15 Dec, 2019 04:51 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
Even if the dems get full control of Washington for 15 years, the example of the gillet jaunes in France show that efforts to tax carbon can be effectively frustrated by a minority of citizens.

Taxing carbon just doesn't do much besides causing people to drive less. They still buy cars, drive places, and most importantly they WANT to drive more if they have the money to pay for it.

To really reduce driving and energy use, you need more residential/commercial integrated communities. I.e. put more housing in shopping/strip malls and more stores in residential areas and connect them via transit lines. If the roads between them are narrowed and re-treed as parkway corridors, it encourages transit use because you can't pass the bus by driving your own car.

Instead of taxing fuels, just set a limit to how much companies can drill/mine and thus sell. If they overshoot their ration limit, they have to drill/mine less the next year. If they consistently overshoot their ration budget, they eventually go out of business and their carbon debts are redistributed across the rest of the companies that are still in business.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Dec, 2019 01:26 am
@livinglava,
Quote:
Taxing carbon just doesn't do much besides causing people to drive less. 

That's fortunate, because it's exactly the point.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Dec, 2019 01:29 am
@hightor,
Quote:
I'm just trying to explain something very simple to Finn.

Fair enough. It may be useful to serve as a cheap shot against Finn.
0 Replies
 
livinglava
 
  0  
Reply Mon 16 Dec, 2019 05:42 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
Taxing carbon just doesn't do much besides causing people to drive less. 

That's fortunate, because it's exactly the point.

You ignored the rest of my post that explained why it isn't sufficient to just drive less.

CO2 emissions are only part of the problem with driving. The other part is deforestation and obstruction of reforestation caused by infrastructure and urban planning oriented toward all trips occurring by automobile.

It is going to take a long time for cities to geographically reform so that paved corridors are reforested and buildings and other pavements are renovated to accommodate living soils, trees, and ecosystems that absorb and store carbon.

Currently you will see cities renovate their automotive grid networks by not only repaving existing roads, but also adding more highways, etc. in order to increase the capacity for a growing population to all get around by driving. When a city takes that step, they have effectively procrastinated pavement-downsizing/reforestation by several decades when the infrastructure will once again be up for renewal.

If you tax carbon/fuel and people drive a little less, it won't be sufficient reduction in driving-demand to motivate municipalities to narrow paved corridors to single-lanes and reforest the outer lanes of the corridor as parkway with trees and bike/pedestrian pathways.

For sustainable climate, most human traffic has to occur by foot/bicycle, and longer-distance commuting and travel should be mostly by bus and/or rail where rail is available. Currently, however, rail projects are being launched without thinking through how those rail lines are supposed to attract passengers away from driving.

Carbon taxation is not going attract people away from driving because they will just drive less and hope for more money so they can afford to drive more again. Really what needs to happen is for many more people to walk, bike, and use transit exclusively instead of driving so that the market demand for pedestrian/bike/transit infrastructure grows.

This is something you can't legislate/regulate unless you simply make it much more difficult to get a driving license, but then you are likely to have public outcries against politicians who support taking away people's licenses in this way.

If you really just want to reduce fossil fuel use and let the market sort out the rest, then the way to do that would be to make quotas for drilling/refining and punish companies that exceed their quotas by lowering their future quotas by whatever amount the overshot the current year quota.

Having fossil fuel quotas would cause market prices to increase as investors invest in scarcity, or rather the prospect of scarcity. That would also stimulate companies to not overshoot their quotas because they would expect even higher prices in the future due to other companies' quotas being cut due to overshoot in the current year.

The challenge would be to prevent lobbying to increase and/or eliminate the quotas. Climate denial isn't just a reaction against climate science; it is a political stance to pro-actively thwart reform progress that obstructs market freedoms that involve liberal energy use.

The only truly effective means of cutting fossil fuel use is to convince the public to stop using fuel and energy as much as possible, and to reduce their spending on products whose producers fail to do so.

Investing in climate reform is not as effective as cutting spending/investment in failing industries/companies because investment stimulates growth, which funnels money in directions that will eventually end up funding the same old unsustainable business and consumer practices. Just look at how investment in denser/walkable new urban/mixed developments generates profits and jobs that end up stimulating more affordable suburban development. If you invest in green/sustainability, you will get a lot of greenwashing of unsustainable economic projects as well as general economic growth that ultimately feeds into the economic culture of unsustainability that has been established and thus seems achievable to many people the moment the economy is growing enough to put it within their reach.
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Tue 17 Dec, 2019 01:20 am
@livinglava,
Nothing will be enough, ever. That doesn't mean we should do nothing. We have to attack GW with everything we got, rather than wait for the perfect solution to emerge.
livinglava
 
  0  
Reply Tue 17 Dec, 2019 07:35 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Nothing will be enough, ever. That doesn't mean we should do nothing. We have to attack GW with everything we got, rather than wait for the perfect solution to emerge.

Humans are perfectly capable of developing a mutualistic-symbiotic relationship with the rest of the biosphere as well as with the long-term carbon cycle and every other climatological and geological aspect of the planet and the larger universe as well.

It is psychological-cultural pessimism that assumes humans are like parasites that can only live by causing detriment to their environments and ecological partnerships.

All we have to do is start thinking in terms of how our actions can contribute to permanent sustainability instead of lamenting about the things we have to give up and reduce.

Losing unsustainability is like losing cancer. Once we do it we will be healthy. It's just a question of understanding what is sustainable and then adapting to live within that paradigm.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Dec, 2019 01:21 am
@livinglava,
Blah blah blah. I'll call on you next time I need a string of empty words.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Dec, 2019 07:07 am
@Olivier5,
Market-radical think tanks from the USA now want to fight the global climate agreement in Europe as well.
The Trump fans were at the climate summit in Madrid to establish right-wing influencers and networks in Germany.

Parallel to the UN climate summit, European and US climate change deniers met in Madrid at the "Climate Reality Forum" conference. The conference focused on how the world could defend itself against alleged "climate alarmism" and "climate madness".
The conference was organised by the US think tank Heartland Institute and the German climate change denier association EIKE from Jena. The thesis of Heartland's environmental expert James Taylor: "We are winning Europe".

The new "young star" of the movement was also invited: the right-wing blogger Naomi Seibt from Münster. She was the only female speaker at the event, which was traditionally dominated by older men.
The Heartland Institute in particular is currently trying to stage the 19-year-old as an "Anti-Greta". Naomi Seibt is trying to be a once "naive" environmentalist, who has now "woken up" and seen through the "climate lie".

Since the conference in Madrid Heartland has been promoting the Münster woman on its channels, the right-wing "Breitbart-Blog" interviewed Seibt, and also the German climate deniers praise her as Jugendliche mit Sachverstand ("youngster with expertise") against the alleged puppets of the industriellen Klimakomplex ("industrial climate complex"), as it is said on the EIKE blog.

Heartland's environmental spokesman James Taylor explained a that it was a good idea to hire Naomi Seibt on a permanent basis.


The LKR ("Liberal Conservative Reformers"), a small right-wing Germany party, organises now 'climate conferences', co-sponsored by the Heartland Institute.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Dec, 2019 08:22 am
@Walter Hinteler,
The COP 25 didn't do a thing, as usual... Who needs climate deniers anyway? Even non-deniers won't act.
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Dec, 2019 02:53 pm
@Olivier5,
You do realize the delegates were probably politicians. Who would expect any solution's from a pack of politicians who owe their jobs to the companies who cause the global warming. Next we will be expecting billionaires to know what its like to go shopping at a grocery store for the family.
 

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