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Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

 
 
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Apr, 2019 02:49 pm
Fake news, fake news. And ill keep claiming fake news until there is 6 foot of water over the roof of my house.
0 Replies
 
livinglava
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 9 Apr, 2019 03:14 pm
@woiyo,
woiyo wrote:

The problem I have with those "screaming environmentalists" is that the problems caused by the HUNDREDS OF YEARS of industrialization can not be changed or fixed in a day.

No, but we could start moving in the right direction if we were committed to doing so.

The problem is socialism. People want problems to persist so that it creates more opportunity to sell solutions.

No one actually wants to solve problems because then how would they justify raising money?
0 Replies
 
livinglava
 
  0  
Reply Tue 9 Apr, 2019 03:23 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
It's important to remember that there is no baseline state for our atmosphere; that is, there's no reason why storms and droughts and such could not be much, much more severe than they are currently. By throwing a bunch heat into the system, we could very well tip our atmosphere into a much more inimical mode....

I'm not sure what you mean by "baseline state," but you could say that the planet has evolved to draw CO2 out of the atmosphere and compound it underground as fossil fuel, along with the energy stored in it.

It has also evolved to spread tree/plant growth over dead rocks and sand wherever possible so that the abundant green light of the sun is reflected away while animals and soil get food to digest/compost and thus turn into oils and other sediments that build up over time to various ends.

If we keep allowing greenhouse gases to build up, ever smaller creatures will take over. Insects, molds, and bacteria might be the only living organisms at some point. Eventually the greenhouse gases will feed into the natural ecological cycles in some way and the climate will begin stabilizing.

New species will gradually evolve and diversify from those that survive the climate instability; though it may take many millions of years.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Mon 23 Sep, 2019 04:22 pm
Wow. And here I thought the whiny brats were whiny when they were whining about guns.

Generation Whine.

P.S. Get off my lawn.
livinglava
 
  2  
Reply Mon 23 Sep, 2019 05:18 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

Wow. And here I thought the whiny brats were whiny when they were whining about guns.

Generation Whine.

P.S. Get off my lawn.

When you talk big and tough like you are doing here, you forget that every so often we end up in a war situation where people are shooting and land-mining each other off their 'lawns,' and at that point people wish there had been a diplomatic solution because watching hordes of young people kill each other at war isn't joyous, let alone being one of those young people.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 23 Sep, 2019 05:31 pm
@livinglava,
Did you hear that whining today?
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Tue 24 Sep, 2019 02:32 am
So Greta Thunberg shook down the UN... That girl has stamina.

"You all come to us young people for hope. How dare you? You have stolen my dreams and my childhood with your empty words, and yet I'm one of the lucky ones. People are suffering. People are dying. Entire ecosystems are collapsing." [...]

"How dare you?" she asked again, growing increasingly emotional as the audience cheered at the 2019 Climate Action Summit.

Citing more than 30 years' worth of scientific studies and warnings that greenhouse gases and other factors were establishing a dangerous new environmental trend, Thunberg criticized politicians for not developing solutions and strategies to confront that threat.

"You say you hear us and that you understand the urgency. But no matter how sad and angry I am, I do not want to believe that. Because if you really understood the situation and still kept on failing to act, then you would be evil. And that I refuse to believe." [...]

"You are failing us, but young people are starting to understand your betrayal," she told the U.N. on Monday. "And if you choose to fail us, I say we will never forgive you."

https://www.npr.org/2019/09/23/763389015/this-is-all-wrong-greta-thunberg-tells-world-leaders-at-u-n-climate-session
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Tue 24 Sep, 2019 04:07 am
@Olivier5,
I guess some of the old farts will find her "grumpy". Like they say about Sanders or AOC: 'How dare they be pissed off?'
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Reply Tue 24 Sep, 2019 06:13 am
@oralloy,
Sociopaths don't feel normal human emotions so they mock them.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Sep, 2019 08:47 am
@Olivier5,
We've all passed through that (usually) early adolescent discovery of the flaws in the adult world around us. Self-absorption coupled with intense but selective awareness and limited understanding are the usual hallmarks. Mark Twain's comment about his age 14 discovery of the ignorance of his father and just how much the old man appeared to have learned by the time he (Mark) reached 21, applies here.

It is unfortunate that Miss Thunberg evidently doesn't understand the sufferings that attend human poverty and external limitations to freedom as well as she has absorbed the contemporary cant of AGW zealots. Nor does she appear to be aware of the many contradictions in their prescriptions for the world, the chief constituents of which are a rejection of emissions free nuclear power; the futility of the alternative energy sources they do advocate over the short time periods they proclaim necessary; the large and fast growing emissions of China; and the many adverse political, social and economic side effects of the remedies they propose.

The truly interesting thing here is the also very juvenile reaction of a large part of the highly polarized adult world around her.
farmerman
 
  4  
Reply Tue 24 Sep, 2019 08:58 am
@georgeob1,
noone wants to be the first to do anything to correct a problem.(especially we Americans as Winnie Churchill once said.)
This is pretty much the same kind of "head in the sand" reaction that the Tobacco Industry tried to foist on the world just 40 years ago.

The effects of global warming are undoubtedly visible now as we harvest the results of the industrial age.

Our president, instead of being a true leader, is showing us the real benefits of being a "lead toady" who is playing short term economic returns against long term ecological disaster.
Maybe Thunberg is whistling in the wind, but she should be saluted to say what no-one yet has vocalized with such passion. The brick wall of such anti GW ignorance is made up mostly of old retired white men in the West .
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Sep, 2019 09:15 am
@georgeob1,
What strikes me is how easily adults can ignore and dismiss their children's welfare as irrelevant.

In a way, it makes it easier to understand how come the ancients could commit their sons or daughters to the fire of Moloch... We're not doing anything else.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Sep, 2019 10:15 am
@farmerman,
I don't disagree with your central points here at all. However the fact remains that what appears to me to be the orthodox position of AGW zealots & mere protagonists across the world is replete with rather obvious contradictions and assumptions, involving the means they demand that all must accept and immediately act on, to meet the rather restrictive timeline they have proclaimed. Fanaticism has replaced rationality and simple minded doctrine thoughtful strategy.

With current and foreseeable technologies, wind and solar power are quite obviously not able to replace conventional petroleum fuels in the time required to meet the orthodox disaster scenario, even with the severe, freedom-destroying, coordinated world wide government action demanded (something that has never been achieved in the history of humanity.

Some available and indeed proven technologies with far greater potential and capacity, chiefly including the expanded use of pressurized water nuclear reactors, are immediately available , but are inexplicably widely rejected by those most avid in predicting our imminent doom due to rising atmospheric carbon.

The (odd in my estimation) coupling of demands for significantly increased government control and intrusion into the lives of citizens as a necessary means and component of any solution of the AGW problem flies in the face of a human history, which rather clearly establishes the marked inferiority of such systems, compared to those based on individual freedom, creativity and innovation, particularly in meeting significant new challenges. Indeed the historical record abounds with the failures of such authoritarian systems to adapt and meet new challenges, internal or external.

In short the many contradictions between the (in my view exaggerated) imminence of the danger, and the likely ineffectiveness of the rather rigid and doctrinaire social, political and technological demanded by AGW protagonists leads me to believe the movement involves more psychological disorder than substance.

Atmospheric warming is real and continuing, However its future progress and side effects remain hard to predict accurately. Corrective action is needed now to meet it's challenges. However the needs of humanity and the hard earned lessons of history must accompany any focused effort to deal effective with this challenge while, at the same time, protecting humanity from poverty and tyranny. So far I don't see that.
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Sep, 2019 11:39 am
@georgeob1,
Nuclear power is a good solution. But it would be better to use sodium-cooled reactors so we can eliminate the problem of long-lived nuclear waste.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Tue 24 Sep, 2019 11:40 am
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
Sociopaths don't feel normal human emotions so they mock them.

That explains progressives then.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Tue 24 Sep, 2019 11:41 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
I guess some of the old farts will find her "grumpy". Like they say about Sanders or AOC: 'How dare they be pissed off?'

0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Sep, 2019 11:53 am
@oralloy,
Sodium reactors present a problem greater than any of the PWR's .They will leak. and its off to the races of nuke spills and migration. PWrs can breed Pu also, just not in as great amounts as a FBR.

Still workin on those actinide "reactors (other than U Pu an Th)??
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Sep, 2019 12:17 pm
@farmerman,
The 600 MW sodium-cooled fast breeder reactor (Generation IV) "ASTRID" was granted a 652 million Euro ($823 million) budget in 2010 and a decision on construction was expected this year while commercial series of 1500 MW SFR reactors were planned to be deployed around 2050.

But in August 2019 France cancelled ASTRID and sodium-breeder in general.

Currently only two industrial-grade fast reactors are in operation – the BN-600 and BN-800 at Russia’s Beloyarsk NPP. A few other countries, including China and India, have operational experimental installations with fast-breeder reactors.
Nuclear Engineering International
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Sep, 2019 12:33 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
I didn't know about the ASTRID project.

France built and used a large sodium-cooled fast breeder for years, dubbed 'superphénix". It was one of these French grandiose projects, like Concorde. The thing worked somewhat but there was much brouhaha around the safety of the sodium cooling system, many protests and even a terrorist attack on it. In the end it was an economic failure.

From wiki:

"In operation, Superphénix demonstrated very poor reliability and had a historical capacity factor of less than 7%.[1] Many of these problems were solved over time, and by 1996 the prototype was reaching its design operational goals.

The plant was powered down in December 1996 for maintenance, and while it was closed it was subject to court challenges that prevented its restart. In June 1997, the newly elected Prime Minister, Lionel Jospin, announced that Superphénix would be closed permanently"

Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Sep, 2019 12:41 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
France built and used a large sodium-cooled fast breeder for years, dubbed 'superphénix".
Rapsodie and Phénix, have been decommissioned earlier.
 

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