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Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

 
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jan, 2010 04:06 pm
@Adanac,
Adanac wrote:

United Nations' blunder on glaciers exposed
Quote:
THE peak UN body on climate change has been dealt another humiliating blow to its credibility after it was revealed a central claim of one of its benchmark reports - that most of the Himalayan glaciers would melt by 2035 because of global warming - was based on a "speculative" claim by an obscure Indian scientist.[....] Some scientists have questioned how the IPCC could have allowed such a mistake into print. Professor Lal admits he knows little about glaciers.



You can't make that stuff up - now the IPCC "chief scientist" refuses to resign over any of the massive errors so far:
Quote:
A 2007 report from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) said global warming could cause the thousands of Himalayan glaciers to vanish if it continued at its current pace.......Pachauri brushed aside questions about whether the error would strengthen the hand of climate change sceptics and should prompt him to step down. "I have no intention of resigning from my position."

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=un-climate-chief-rejects
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jan, 2010 07:49 pm
http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=f80a6386-802a-23ad-40c8-3c63dc2d02cb
As of December 20, 2007, more than 400 prominent scientists from more than two dozen countries have voiced significant objections to major aspects of the alleged UN IPCC "consensus" on man-made global warming.

Quote:

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.SenateReport#report
352
Astronomer Dr. Ian Wilson, who collaborates with researchers at the University of Southern Queensland, Australia, specializes in astrophysics research, and was a former operations astronomer at the Hubble Space Telescope Institute in Baltimore, MD. Wilson declared man-made global warming fears "bit the dust" after a 2007 peer-reviewed study found that even a doubling of atmospheric carbon dioxide would not have an alarming impact on global temperatures. "Anthropogenic (man-made) global warming bites the dust," declared Wilson about the study titled "Heat Capacity, Time Constant, and Sensitivity of Earth's Climate System," authored by Brookhaven National Lab scientist Stephen Schwartz. "Effectively, this [new study] means that the global economy will spend trillions of dollars trying to avoid a warming of ~ 1.0 K by 2100 A.D.," Wilson wrote in an August 19, 2007 note to the Senate Environment & Public Works Committee. Wilson was referring to the trillions of dollars that would be spent under such international global warming treaties like the Kyoto Protocol. "Previously, I have indicated that the widely accepted values for temperature increase associated with a doubling of CO2 were far too high, i.e. 2 - 4.5 Kelvin. I indicated that a figure closer to 1 Kelvin (corresponding to an increase in the world mean temperature of ~ 0.1 K per decade) was more appropriate. This new peer-reviewed paper by Stephen Schwartz appearing in the Journal of Geophysical Research claims a value of 1.1 +/- 0.5 K increase for a doubling of CO2," he added. (LINK)

0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jan, 2010 08:08 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:
You are claiming the use of scientific instruments in describing weather stations as deficient? What scientific instrument was used to determine those stations are deficient?

would you believe a camera? And a brain.
Actually, I think you misunderstood my post, but no matter, it doesn't matter, Parados, you would not understand anyway. I did not mean a scientific insrument was needed to determine quality of a weather station. What I meant was that a thermometer is a scientific instrument that should leave no doubt in regard to a reading, which is totally different than a bunch of amateur birdwatchers walking around counting birds. I guess you have trouble with reading comprehension, but that is not a surprise as I think you are still in the dark about Clinton being offered Osama Bin Laden by the Sudan, according to Clinton's own words. Both you and even the 9/11 Commission must have trouble understanding simple statements.
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Sun 24 Jan, 2010 08:09 am
@parados,
Quote:
Do you think allowing persons you don't know send you pictures is a sound a reliable data method since I could photoshop anything I want to in a photo.
I find it interesting that those opposed to your point of view are corrupting and forging data but not your side. I thought the evidence was greatly the opposite. Do you really believe the evidence of the weather stations being inadequate to measure climate change is being forged ? I dont think you do. I think you are frightened and desperate.

You can not prove the data is accurate.
You can not prove the principle of global warming from man made carbon based substances is sound.
You can not prove what percentage (zero being a percentage) of warming is natural.

Quote:
Can you tell us what standards you used to confirm Watts used sound and reliable data gathering methods to check the sites.
The standards used were those prescribed by the weather bureau, the owner of the stations. This is not a calibration error, it is simply a poorly constructed data gathering site that is counter to obvious needs to prevent error. Obvious except to you.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jan, 2010 12:25 pm
@okie,
Yes, of course okie..
everyone must be wrong but you and ican.

It must be nice to be so sure of being right that you don't ever question it at all.



I hope you can understand my simple statement.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jan, 2010 10:57 pm
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:
Quote:
Can you tell us what standards you used to confirm Watts used sound and reliable data gathering methods to check the sites.
The standards used were those prescribed by the weather bureau, the owner of the stations. This is not a calibration error, it is simply a poorly constructed data gathering site that is counter to obvious needs to prevent error. Obvious except to you.

Intellectual honesty is required to understand the simplest of observations, Ionus, and Parados has trouble with this aspect of the issue. He will use any lawyerly angle to argue against anything that he does not want to be so, regardless of how overwhelmingly obvious it may be.
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Jan, 2010 08:35 am
@okie,
I have come to the opinion that parados is an environmental lawyer, as he has a great enthusiasm for an argument but very little scientific knowledge of the matter. Anyone who has a science background would see the faults that have been pointed out here and would respond in a more honest manner..unless they had been got at...and it is now public record that at least some do not have science as there goal...they have other motives.
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Jan, 2010 05:33 pm
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/img/climate/research/global-jan-dec-error-bar-pg.gif
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/img/climate/research/global-jan-dec-error-bar-pg.gif
Jan-Dec Global Mean Temperature over Land & Ocean
http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/data/temperature/nhshgl.gif
Average Annual Global Temperature 1850-2009
http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/data/temperature/nhshgl.gif
Average Annual Global Temperature 1850-2009

Both of these graphs show the average annual global temperature is either leveling off or is declining.
0 Replies
 
kuvasz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Jan, 2010 12:37 pm
@Ionus,
Parados has shown to have have exceeded the scientific knowledge of virtually everyone on this thread, especially that presented by the likes of you or okie.

Let me put it this way. Where did you get your BS, MS, and PhD in the physical sciences? Have you ever published a scientific article in a refereed journal, or spent a life time of work using scientific methods of analysis? I would doubt it, and wager that you don't know a ******* thing about science. I have the greater level of scientific training and you don't. So, I consider that my opinion on scienctific matters to exceed your own considering your paltry credentials.

btw

in reference to the attacks on temperature readings, due to Urban Heat Island effect and closure of urban weather stations worldwide.

This has been addressed numerous times in the literature. It was discussed in the IPCC report para 2.2.2.1. Page 105.

http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/index.htm

The difference between the urban and rural measurements, though small, has been taken into account. Also see Box 2.1 on the next page 106.

Unlike Parados, who attempts to inform the unenlightened, I don't give a **** about enlightening you, because, to paraphrase Jesus, the stupid will be with you, always, so there is no reason to waste my time trying to smarten you. I just don't want you to get the idea that you know what you are talking about, nor seduce other gullible rubes that you do.

Not surprising at all, really, but one of the main drivers of global-warming denialism on the part of the Right (conservative and libertarian) is the notion that a problem which is caused by failures of the free market, and which needs government action to fix, cannot exist. The market is, after all, perfect, particularly in more Randian views. And since such a problem cannot exist, then by logic it does not exist.

Which further means that the science behind anthropogenic climate change must be a hoax, which explains why the deniers came all over the stolen CRU emails (which have about as much damning substance to them as the doctored ACORN videos).

A lot of white males derive income and economic advantages from being white males. This runs in direct conflict with sharing wealth and power with other groups, like women or “minorities.” I think the same reason they might feel entitled to better compensation for the same skill set another person has is the same reason they resent science " it is a meritocracy. The same guys advocating climate science are the same guys who want to take their gas guzzling polluting ATV's and giving “their jobs” to “black folks” or “women.” The denial is linked. It has never been about anything else except defending upper-class, white male privilege.

White, middle class, educated men are living in a strange fear.

They offer knee-jerk reactions to the idea of "man-made" global warming. I think what it is really about is feeling that it is a blame America thing; that people are pointing fingers at their lifestyle and choices and then refuse to be intimidated so they come back with the disbelief reaction.
okie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Jan, 2010 05:23 pm
@kuvasz,
kuvasz wrote:

Parados has shown to have have exceeded the scientific knowledge of virtually everyone on this thread, especially that presented by the likes of you or okie.


A lot of white males derive income and economic advantages from being white males.

White, middle class, educated men are living in a strange fear.

Laughing Laughing Laughing
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Tue 26 Jan, 2010 05:38 pm
@kuvasz,
Quote:
I have the greater level of scientific training and you don't.
I live in awe of your self proclaimed superiority. I dont have any qualifications ? Did you use up all of your psychic powers on that one or do you still have some left to predict the future ? Fools like you are the only ones with pieces of paper ? Only the frightened wave pieces of paper around and say they must be right. Yes I do have formal education qualifications, but to say I must be right because of them would be as stupid as you..I will not do that.
parados has shown scientific knowledge ? Bullshit. Read back. he doesnt even know how many Ice Ages there were, or a proper definition of an Ice Age. Time and again his knowledge of science fails him.
Quote:
you don't know a ******* thing about science
If your reference to the reproduction method is to test my knowledge of Biology then I admit I am self taught in that area. I would expect every professional to continue their education in all areas, not just their chosen career.
I cant believe you wrote all that about denial but deny it applies to you. IF Global Warming is occurring, and IF it was man made, and IF it will significantly alter the climate, you will be a very happy person. But what if you are wrong ? I know, it cant happen because you have a piece of paper and your ESP tells you I do not. Very clever. If you are telling the truth, where did you graduate ? Hollywood Upstairs Academy for abused children ?
You are right about one thing. You are wasting your time. So piss off.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  0  
Reply Tue 26 Jan, 2010 05:43 pm
@okie,
You post laugh-faces because you can't even begin to envisage a coherent response to his post. It's like whistling past the graveyard.

Cycloptichorn
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Jan, 2010 05:59 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
It's like whistling past the graveyard
No, kuvasz is more like screaming, " we are in a grave yard, people !!!"
okie
 
  2  
Reply Tue 26 Jan, 2010 06:03 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
I found the posts humorous, isn't that permissable?
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Jan, 2010 06:04 pm
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:

Quote:
It's like whistling past the graveyard
No, kuvasz is more like screaming, " we are in a grave yard, people !!!"


Dealing with people who are so anti-reality, that they deny any science which doesn't match their political position - no matter the weight of evidence - will do that to a person. You can only put up with so much idiocy for so long.

Kuvasz is exactly right: Parados has forgotten more about this topic then you or Okie have ever learned in your lives and he displays this constantly. You would be better served to actually think about what he says instead of dismissing it.

Cycloptichorn
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Jan, 2010 06:05 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

I found the posts humorous, isn't that permissable?


Anything is permissible; however, don't think you're fooling anyone, because you certainly are not. Your post is typical of someone who wants to respond back in a conversation but doesn't have the ability to do so.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Jan, 2010 06:14 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
I believe okie and ican were programed into reverse-education. If they post anything, think it as wrong, and go from there. You'll be way ahead of their ignorance.
okie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Jan, 2010 09:52 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Kuvasz is exactly right: Parados has forgotten more about this topic then you or Okie have ever learned in your lives and he displays this constantly. You would be better served to actually think about what he says instead of dismissing it.

Cycloptichorn

Exactly what is Parados's qualifications in regard to the subject of climatology? I am not climatologist, but at least I have a degree in geology and practiced that scientific field for almost 2 decades. As far as I have been able to determine so far, Parados is likely some kind of lawyer that practices apology for extreme liberal causes, such as extreme environmentalism, so unless he can bring any expertise better than that, he is not qualified at all to discuss this subject in any common sense fashion. I have yet to coax him into the simple logic that weather stations that do not even meet the standards of the people that collect temperature data, that those stations are highly suspect, but he cannot see the simple logic. Most of the weather stations in this country have been surveyed and a high percentage of them have been found to be deficient to some degree or another. I have pointed out to Parados to no avail that if you cannot collect reliable data, any conclusions or theories that you may form about the data are thus going to be highly questionable. This is simple logic to anyone that has any ability to think logically at all.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 27 Jan, 2010 03:24 am
@cicerone imposter,
Your wit is only exceeded by your contribution to a scientific discussion. Perhaps you can say something about the topic ? I'll give you a hint : Okie and Ican are not the topic.

I'll even get you started : We are still coming out of an Ice Age. Glaciers only exist during an Ice Age. At times in the past, there was no ice on the planet, including Antartica. Why werent those warm periods the damaging event Global Warming is claimed to be ?

According to green estimates, we have cut down the Amazon rain forest several times. We have run out of fossil fuel in 1995. We must do what they say to avoid catastrophe. And of course Global Warming is real and man made. These are fools with meglomania complex that no-one listens to except other fools.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Jan, 2010 09:04 am
@okie,
okie wrote:


Intellectual honesty is required to understand the simplest of observations, Ionus, and Parados has trouble with this aspect of the issue. He will use any lawyerly angle to argue against anything that he does not want to be so, regardless of how overwhelmingly obvious it may be.

And what angle did you use to dismiss the Audubon society's bird watchers?

oh.. right common sense caused you to dismiss them as not being accurate because you don't agree with their conclusions.
 

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