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Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

 
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Sep, 2009 11:17 am
@parados,
Ionus's argument about "ice ages makes sense to me.

Ionus is saying an "ice age" constitutes one complete cycle of a periodic phenomenum:
(1) from most ice and greatest cold;
(2) to least ice and greatest warmth;
(3) to most ice and greatest cold.

Of course, since I learned that in the 3rd grade a very long time ago, it probably doesn't apply anymore.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Sep, 2009 11:21 am
http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=f80a6386-802a-23ad-40c8-3c63dc2d02cb
As of December 20, 2007, more than 400 prominent scientists from more than two dozen countries have voiced significant objections to major aspects of the alleged UN IPCC "consensus" on man-made global warming.

Quote:

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.SenateReport#report
319
Applied Physicist and Engineer Dr. Jeffrey A. Glassman wrote an October 24, 2006 paper entitled "The Acquittal of Carbon Dioxide." In the abstract of the paper appearing in Rocket Scientist's Journal, Glassman wrote, "Carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is the product of oceanic respiration due to the well?known but under?appreciated solubility pump. Carbon dioxide rises out of warm ocean waters where it is added to the atmosphere. There it is mixed with residual and accidental CO2, and circulated, to be absorbed into the sink of the cold ocean waters." Glassman further explained, "Next the thermohaline circulation carries the CO2?rich sea water deep into the ocean. A millennium later it appears at the surface in warm waters, saturated by lower pressure and higher temperature, to be exhausted back into the atmosphere." "Notwithstanding that carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas, atmospheric carbon dioxide has neither caused nor amplified global temperature increases. Increased carbon dioxide has been an effect of global warming, not a cause. Technically, carbon dioxide is a lagging proxy for ocean temperatures. When global temperature, and along with it, ocean temperature rises, the physics of solubility causes atmospheric CO2 to increase. If increases in carbon dioxide, or any other greenhouse gas, could have in turn raised global temperatures, the positive feedback would have been catastrophic. While the conditions for such a catastrophe were present in the Vostok record from natural causes, the runaway event did not occur. Carbon dioxide does not accumulate in the atmosphere," he wrote. (LINK)

0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Sep, 2009 08:25 am
Obama joins the "sky is falling crowd." Actually we already knew he was part of that crowd, but this is the latest rhetoric coming out of him, which is nothing more than a political power move by leftists.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/22/obama-climate-change-irreversible-catastrophe-addressed/

"Obama: Climate Change an 'Irreversible Catastrophe' If Not Addressed
President Obama delivers an address on climate change at the United Nations in New York City."
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Sep, 2009 08:44 am
@okie,
okie wrote:

Obama joins the "sky is falling crowd." Actually we already knew he was part of that crowd, but this is the latest rhetoric coming out of him, which is nothing more than a political power move by leftists.


Your "leftist paranoia" couldn't even be cured with a different health insurance system.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Sep, 2009 10:01 am
@okie,
I mean, when you look at the names of the 600 signatory companies which signed the "Copenhagen Communiqué", you certainly get an idea were the left is ...

AXA Insurance, BEA, Deutsche Telecom, DHL, Kingfisher, Lloyds Bank, Barclays Bank, Royal Dutch Shell, BP, Sun Microsystems, Unilever, AkzoNobel, Air France, Coca-Cola, Pepsi-Cola, Babcock, Hofmann-LaRoche, Bayer, HSBC, Peugeot Citroën, Rolls-Royce ... ...
0 Replies
 
mightypythons
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Sep, 2009 08:28 pm
Historically there is always changes in weather. I'm a farmer in Australia and we are currently in ten years of drought, the worst since 1905. So maybe climate change is happening.
But my real question is do most people even think of the weather on a day to day basis? Or only when severe incidients occur? I believe that the world's weather is changing, can we change it? I doubt it cause we may not be the cause of it. What we should be doing is focusing on is the weather changing long term and if it is how do we then address it? Should we change where we farm or how we farm?
Should we even look at changing where we live or how we live.
okie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Sep, 2009 08:45 pm
Has this been posted? I have noticed Russia has been a hot area of the globe and wondered if the books might be undergoing some cooking? Sure enough, this video seems to indicate that McIntyre has discovered some. And I wonder how many errors have not been discovered, after all we know that leftists have a very big political vested interest in this wedge issue. Russia is big enough to skew the global temperatures at least a little, enough to mask the reality of what might be going on. We have Obama claiming it will be catastrophic if something isn't done, things like taxing the bejeebers out of oil and gas, and coal companies, now that is really dumb policy but thats apparently what he has in mind.

Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Sep, 2009 05:34 am
@okie,
Yes, okie, that was noted. Last year, when it was posted.

And there have been a lot of responses to that ... in various scientific magazines, by NASA, ... ...
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Sep, 2009 06:59 am
@mightypythons,
As a farmer, where do you propose moving your farm to if you can't farm where you currently do?

Maybe you can move 300 miles north from your current farm. How would that work out for you?
mightypythons
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Sep, 2009 04:49 pm
@parados,
Good question, the answer may be not for me to move but to grow different crops, or use the land for something else, grow trees for example. And maybe some where else to grow what we grow here.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Sep, 2009 05:46 pm
@mightypythons,
There are many examples of incorrect farming because of the temporary changes of weather. The American "Dust Bowl", the early colonial farming of South Australia, are two that come to mind where farming was initiated on a temporary weather pattern only to have the weather change. Meterologists know that our weather has been unusually stable for about 10,000 years. As we are in an interglacial period, and the last wild weather patterns were just before the last glacial advances, we could be about to enter a glacial period.

However, the connection between climate and weather is rather vague. Climate drives weather, but the way it does so is not understood except in general terms. Remember it is only recently (50 yrs ??) we have learnt to predict short term weather with some accuracy. Farming is always dependant on the weather and I would rely on farmers to suggest improvements but from my observations we can do nothing but react after the weather has had its effect. I cant see that changing.

There is much that needs to be done to improve our relationship with nature, but the political will has been absent. Wars have been fought over natural resources and that will only get worse. For example, if Turkey were to dam the Tigris, what would Iraq do for water ?

Many had hoped Global Warming would give politicians the power to change things, but people objected to the guessing inherent to it. We need change to how we live in order to preserve the planet, but no one wants to pay the cost.

Economics will force change, but this will be a severe blow to the world economy, perhaps bringing about massive starvation and may occur too late for many eco-systems. The idea was that Global Warming would enable politicians to enact more gradual manageable change now, by being able to over ride people's objections to the cost.

One thing I am certain of, change will come whether we do it gradually or wait for one big lump to hit us.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Sep, 2009 06:02 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
"leftist paranoia" ??? Are you unaware of the left in politics ? Or if anyone mentions it they are paranoid ? Perhaps you arent aware of the Green movement and its politicising of everything from food to travel ?

Or is it that you dont want to be associated with the left whilst kowtowing to it ?
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Sep, 2009 06:05 pm
@parados,
You had your chance to address them. Now make a statement on Global Warming so we can address the veracity of what your statements.
0 Replies
 
Adanac
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Sep, 2009 02:30 am
@mightypythons,
mightypythons wrote:

Historically there is always changes in weather. I believe that the world's weather is changing, can we change it? I doubt it cause we may not be the cause of it.

This is a view expressed by a lot of people including me. The doomsters would have you believe mankind is the cause of it. Phooey !
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Sep, 2009 02:14 pm
@ican711nm,
No one claims to be able to even estimate what percentage each of the following caused the 100-year, 1909 to 2009, 1°K (or 1°C, or 1.8°F) increase in the average global temperature:
(1) Human caused increased CO2 emissions into the atmosphere;
(2) Increased evaporation of H2O into the atmosphere;
(3) Increased SI radiations in and onto the atmosphere.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Sep, 2009 02:20 pm
@ican711nm,
http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/data/temperature/nhshgl.gif
Average Annual Global Temperature 1850-2009
http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/data/temperature/nhshgl.gif

ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Sep, 2009 02:23 pm
@ican711nm,
http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=f80a6386-802a-23ad-40c8-3c63dc2d02cb
As of December 20, 2007, more than 400 prominent scientists from more than two dozen countries have voiced significant objections to major aspects of the alleged UN IPCC "consensus" on man-made global warming.

Quote:

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.SenateReport#report
320
Dr. A.T.J. de Laat, who specialized in atmospheric composition and climate research at the Royal Netherlands Meteorological Institute, commented in the February 2007 Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society. "The line of reasoning here is that natural factors alone cannot explain the observed twentieth-century temperature variations, while including greenhouse gases does. The logical fallacy is the ‘fallacy of false dilemma/either-or fallacy,' that is, the number of alternatives are (un)intentionally restricted, thereby omitting relevant alternatives from consideration (Haskins 2006)," de Laat wrote. "That global twentieth-century temperature variations can be explained by using a simple model merely points to a certain consistency between this model or climate model simulations and observations. Furthermore, the fact that the late-twentieth-century warming is unexplained by two factors (solar variations and aerosols) and can be explained by including a third factor (greenhouse gases) does not prove that greenhouse gases are the cause; it just points to a missing process in this model," he explained. "In fact, this whole line of reasoning does not prove the existence of global warming; it is merely consistent with it. As an example, it is still debated whether or not land surface temperature changes during the twentieth century are affected by anthropogenic non-greenhouse gas processes and whether or not these processes affect surface temperatures on a global scale (Christy et al. 2006; Kalnay et al. 2006; de Laat and Maurellis 2006). There is a risk associated with this line of reasoning in that it suggests that understanding temperature variations of the climate system as a whole is very simple and completely understood, all one has to consider is the amount of incoming and outgoing radiation by changes in atmospheric absorbers and reflectors," he added. "Notwithstanding the fact that temperature is not a conserved quantity in any physical system, and thus is not the best metric to study energy within the climate system, it also suggests that other processes and nonlinear behavior of the climate system are either nonexistent or do not affect (decadal and global) temperature variations. Presenting climate science this way oversimplifies the complexity of the climate system and possibly overstates our current understanding," he concluded. (LINK)

0 Replies
 
Adanac
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2009 12:22 pm
Ross McKitrick: Defects in key climate data are uncovered

Quote:
I have been probing the arguments for global warming for well over a decade. In collaboration with a lot of excellent coauthors I have consistently found that when the layers get peeled back, what lies at the core is either flawed, misleading or simply non-existent.


http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2009/10/01/ross-mckitrick-defects-in-key-climate-data-are-uncovered.aspx
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2009 04:49 pm
@Adanac,
http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=f80a6386-802a-23ad-40c8-3c63dc2d02cb
As of December 20, 2007, more than 400 prominent scientists from more than two dozen countries have voiced significant objections to major aspects of the alleged UN IPCC "consensus" on man-made global warming.

Quote:

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.SenateReport#report
321
Dr. Patrick J. Michaels, a UN IPCC reviewer, Virginia State Climatologist from 1980-2007, past president of the American Association of State Climatologists, author of numerous peer-reviewed scientific studies on climate change, and University of Virginia professor of environmental sciences, called Gore's film "science fiction" in a February 23, 2007 article. "The main point of [Gore's] movie is that, unless we do something very serious, very soon about carbon dioxide emissions, much of Greenland's 630,000 cubic miles of ice is going to fall into the ocean, raising sea levels over twenty feet by the year 2100," Michaels wrote. Michaels is a senior fellow in environmental studies at the Cato Institute and author of "Meltdown: The Predictable Distortion of Global Warming by Scientists, Politicians, and the Media." Michaels continued, "Nowhere in the traditionally refereed scientific literature do we find any support for Gore's hypothesis. Instead, there's an un-refereed editorial by NASA climate firebrand James E. Hansen, in the journal Climate Change - edited by Steven Schneider, of Stanford University, who said in 1989 that scientists had to choose ‘the right balance between being effective and honest' about global warming - and a paper in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences that was only reviewed by one person, chosen by the author, again Dr. Hansen. These are the sources for the notion that we have only ten years to ‘do' something immediately to prevent an institutionalized tsunami. And given that Gore only conceived of his movie about two years ago, the real clock must be down to eight years! It would be nice if my colleagues would actually level with politicians about various ‘solutions' for climate change. The Kyoto Protocol, if fulfilled by every signatory, would reduce global warming by 0.07 degrees Celsius per half-century." (LINK) Michaels lost his position as the VA State Climatologist after a clash with the state's Governor: "I was told that I could not speak in public," Michaels said in a September 29, 2007 Washington Post interview. Excerpt from article: "Michaels has argued that the climate is becoming warmer but that the consequences will not be as dire as others have predicted. Gov. Kaine had warned. Michaels not to use his official title in discussing his views. 'I resigned as Virginia state climatologist because I was told that I could not speak in public on my area of expertise, global warming, as state climatologist,' Michaels said in a statement this week provided by the libertarian Cato Institute, where he has been a fellow since 1992. 'It was impossible to maintain academic freedom with this speech restriction.' (LINK)

ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Oct, 2009 04:52 pm
@ican711nm,
http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/data/temperature/nhshgl.gif
http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/data/temperature/nhshgl.gif
Average Annual Global Temperature 1850-2009
0 Replies
 
 

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