74
   

Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

 
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 10:59 am
@parados,
Parados, It is hilarious how you repeatedly make assertions and allegations that you cannot or do not support, all the while accusing those you disagree with of doing the same thing.

I think anyone with a modicum of knowledge of economics knows:
increasing the supply of oil domestically will increase the worldwide supply of oil. And, generally when one increases the supply of something relative to its demand, its price drops due to competition.

It is obvous that there is a cost involved in reducing human emissions of CO2 into the atmosphere. Stop pretending to be stupid.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 11:10 am
@ican711nm,
Ican, It is hilarious how you repeatedly make assertions and allegations that you cannot or do not support, all the while accusing those you disagree with of doing the same thing.

I think anyone with a modicum of knowledge of climatology knows:
increasing the amount of CO2 will increase the amount of infrared absorbed in the atmosphere. And, generally when one increases the amount of energy absorbed one increases the temperature.

It is obvous [sic] that there is a temperature increase caused by the increase of CO2. Stop pretending to be stupid.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 01:04 pm
@Ionus,
Arctic now warmest in 2000 years, researchers say
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 05:02 pm
http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/data/temperature/nhshgl.gif
http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/data/temperature/nhshgl.gif
Average Annual Global Temperature 1850-2009
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 05:05 pm
@ican711nm,
http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=f80a6386-802a-23ad-40c8-3c63dc2d02cb
As of December 20, 2007, more than 400 prominent scientists from more than two dozen countries have voiced significant objections to major aspects of the alleged UN IPCC "consensus" on man-made global warming.

Quote:

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.SenateReport#report
316
Climate scientist Dr. Christopher L. Castro, a Professor of the Department of Atmospheric Sciences at the University of Arizona, expressed skepticism of a global warming catastrophe in 2007. "I believe the balance of evidence from the paleoclimate record, recent climate history (particularly since the 1980s), and the anthropogenic attribution GCM (Global Climate Models) experiments (e.g., Meehl et al. type studies) support the conclusion that recent climate change is due, in part, to anthropogenic forcing," Castro wrote on June 4, 2007. But Castro also said he generally agrees that "other possible forcings to the climate system besides CO2 (like land-use change, aerosols, etc.) are not accounted for well, if at all" and "models are highly sensitive to parameterized processes, like clouds, convection, and radiation, and these processes can have significant impacts on their results." Castro also said, "GCMs have very limited utility for climate prediction (i.e., seasonal forecasts) or climate projection (i.e., global warming projections) on the regional scale." (LINK) In an October 26, 2007 interview, Castro further explained his views. "In terms of climate-change projection, there are a lot of scary scenarios that have been published in the literature regarding what's going to happen with Arizona's climate in the future. But those predictions are based on coarse-resolution general circulation models, which can't even simulate some basic processes of Arizona climate, for example, the summer monsoon," Castro said. (LINK)

Adanac
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 06:45 pm
@Walter Hinteler,


Global Warming a Boon for Greenland's Farmers

Known for its massive ice sheets, Greenland is feeling the effects of global warming as rising temperatures have expanded the island's growing season and crops are flourishing. For the first time in hundreds of years, it has become possible to raise cattle and start dairy farms.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Sep, 2009 03:02 am
@Walter Hinteler,
The question was how much should it have melted and your reference of a newspaper report doesnt answer it.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Sep, 2009 03:10 am
@Ionus,
Try google - or better: one of the scientific search machines.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Sep, 2009 06:54 am
@ican711nm,
Quote:
"I believe the balance of evidence from the paleoclimate record, recent climate history (particularly since the 1980s), and the anthropogenic attribution GCM (Global Climate Models) experiments (e.g., Meehl et al. type studies) support the conclusion that recent climate change is due, in part, to anthropogenic forcing," Castro wrote on June 4, 2007.

What exactly is Castro objecting to concerning the consensus?
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  0  
Reply Fri 4 Sep, 2009 07:10 am
@Ionus,
For those that can't or won't do the research.

http://www.farnorthscience.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/20090804_Figure2_thumb.jpg
The 2009 sea ice compared to the average sea ice and is below the average.

http://www.farnorthscience.com/2009/08/06/climate-news/arctic-ice-the-shrink-goes-on-2/
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Sep, 2009 09:12 am
@ican711nm,
Since Centre England's temperatures are of special interest by some here, we shouldn't forget posting them as well

http://i25.tinypic.com/11hyo9j.jpg
okie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Sep, 2009 09:44 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Indeed, and so far in 2009, the average so far of 9.96, with most of the hotter months done, is on track to come in below virtually all annual averages for the past 10 or 15 years.

Incidentally, you told me that Central England was such a small area that it didn't matter. Which is it now?
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Sep, 2009 10:27 am
@okie,
okie wrote:

Indeed, and so far in 2009, the average so far of 9.96, with most of the hotter months done, is on track to come in below virtually all annual averages for the past 10 or 15 years.

Any source for that?

okie wrote:
Incidentally, you told me that Central England was such a small area that it didn't matter. Which is it now?


The same - actually, I only posted it for YOU.
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Since Centre England's temperatures are of special interest by some here, we shouldn't forget posting them as well
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Sep, 2009 10:59 am
@ican711nm,
No one claims to know by what percentage each of the following caused the 100-year, one degree increase in the average global temperature:
(1) Human caused increased CO2 emissions into the atmosphere;
(2) Increased evaporation of H2O into the atmosphere;
(3) Increased SI radiations in and onto the atmosphere.

Until someone actually knows these percentages, no one can truly know what has actually caused the 100-year, 1 °K increase in the average global temperature from about 286.56°K to about 287.56°K.

FOR:
CAGT = CENTURY AVERAGE GLOBAL TEMPERATURE,1901-2000, in °K = 287.06°K;
AAGT= ANNUAL AVERAGE GLOBAL TEMPERATURE in °K;
AoAAGT = ANOMALIES of AAGT = AAGT - CAGT in °K;
AAGT = CAGT + AoAAGT;
CAD = CO2 ATMOSPHERIC DENSITY in PPM;
SI = SOLAR IRRADIANCE in W/M^2 .


IT IS A FACT:
during the specific 90 year period,
1908 to 1998, CAD increased, SI increased, AoAAGT
increased, and AAGT increased. It is also a fact that
during the specific 11 year period, 1998 to 2008,
CAD increased, SI decreased, AoAAGT decreased, and
AAGT decreased. Because of these facts, SI increases
and decreases are likely to be the major causes of
AoAAGT and AAGT increases and decreases,
and CAD increases are likely to be minor, if not
negligible, causes of increases of AoAAGT and AAGT.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Sep, 2009 02:19 am
@parados,
Are you aware that to get an average, data is required above and below the average ? As for the standard deviation, datum can still be outside of that and not need any other factors like human influence. Why does the ice age have to ended when most ice melted ? The world does not usually have glacial ice, and the Artic has melted before. It will melt again. Are you familar with climate change or does your knowledge only go back to the start of industrial times ?
parados
 
  0  
Reply Sat 5 Sep, 2009 05:48 am
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:

Are you aware that to get an average, data is required above and below the average ?
Yes
Quote:
As for the standard deviation, datum can still be outside of that and not need any other factors like human influence.
Yes
Quote:
Why does the ice age have to ended when most ice melted ?
I have no idea why you are even asking that question.

Quote:
The world does not usually have glacial ice,
Your evidence of this? Ice cores go back 420,000 years. That would mean that for the last 420,000 years we have had ice. Are you trying to argue that we are still in an ice age?
Quote:
and the Artic has melted before. It will melt again.
Yes and yes but it has nothing to do with whether present warming is man made or not.
Quote:
Are you familar with climate change or does your knowledge only go back to the start of industrial times ?
Yes to the first part. No to the second.
Adanac
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Sep, 2009 03:22 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:

I think anyone with a modicum of knowledge of climatology knows:
increasing the amount of CO2 will increase the amount of infrared absorbed in the atmosphere. And, generally when one increases the amount of energy absorbed one increases the temperature.


Carbon dioxide is essential for plants. In fact, it is essential for almost all life. With no carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, there would be no photosynthesis, no plants, no animals feeding on plants, and no animals feeding on other animals.The climate alarmists are claiming that CO2 has a large impact on climate and that we should worry. They are wrong. Carbon dioxide have a very small impact on climate.
New and better analysis of the Antarctic ice data, giving a better time resolution, have shown that first temperature rises, and then carbon dioxide levels increase. It is the temperature increase which causes the increase in carbon dioxide and not the other way around.
The main reason why CO2 can only have a small impact on the climate of the world is called saturation. An atom or a molecule does not absorb light and other electromagnetic radiation at all wavelengths. It only absorbs in narrow regions in the electromagnetic spectrum. These narrow regions are called spectral lines.
When the number of absorbing particles increases even further, however, they will start to screen each-other. This means that particles will receive less radiation than expected, because other particles have already absorbed the radiation heading their way. The radiation will eventually be re-radiated, but then usually at another wavelength, where the atom or molecule cannot absorb it. This screening also means that the total absorption of radiation no longer will increase as fast as the number of particles. It is in fact possible that the total absorption remains almost constant in spite of an increase in the number of absorbing particles.
So there is no need to worry about the increasing amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. The climate alarmists are wrong.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Sep, 2009 08:08 am
@Adanac,
Adanac wrote:

parados wrote:

I think anyone with a modicum of knowledge of climatology knows:
increasing the amount of CO2 will increase the amount of infrared absorbed in the atmosphere. And, generally when one increases the amount of energy absorbed one increases the temperature.


Carbon dioxide is essential for plants. In fact, it is essential for almost all life. With no carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, there would be no photosynthesis, no plants, no animals feeding on plants, and no animals feeding on other animals.
Yes, but that is a red herring on your part. You haven't addressed what I said.
Quote:
The climate alarmists are claiming that CO2 has a large impact on climate and that we should worry. They are wrong. Carbon dioxide have a very small impact on climate.
Define small. 10-20 degrees may seem small but in the realm of climate can be quite large.
Quote:

New and better analysis of the Antarctic ice data, giving a better time resolution, have shown that first temperature rises, and then carbon dioxide levels increase. It is the temperature increase which causes the increase in carbon dioxide and not the other way around.
Yes but your argument makes no sense. Just because something happened one way in the past doesn't mean it can't happen another way. Would you argue the following? Before man appeared forest fires were all started by natural means which proves man can't start forest fires.
Quote:

The main reason why CO2 can only have a small impact on the climate of the world is called saturation. An atom or a molecule does not absorb light and other electromagnetic radiation at all wavelengths. It only absorbs in narrow regions in the electromagnetic spectrum. These narrow regions are called spectral lines.
When the number of absorbing particles increases even further, however, they will start to screen each-other. This means that particles will receive less radiation than expected, because other particles have already absorbed the radiation heading their way. The radiation will eventually be re-radiated, but then usually at another wavelength, where the atom or molecule cannot absorb it. This screening also means that the total absorption of radiation no longer will increase as fast as the number of particles. It is in fact possible that the total absorption remains almost constant in spite of an increase in the number of absorbing particles.
If you want to argue that about carbon dioxide then you have to also argue that the amount of water vapor makes no difference since there is a LOT more water vapor than CO2. No one has argued that the increase in temperature from CO2 is linear.

By the way, can you provide the scientific paper that shows at what concentration CO2 no longer absorbs infrared.

Quote:

So there is no need to worry about the increasing amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. The climate alarmists are wrong.
Sure, you know more than the people that actually study and do research on the subject.
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Sep, 2009 12:05 pm
@parados,
GLOBAL WARMING
No one claims to know by what percentage each of the following caused the 100-year, one degree Kelvin increase in the average global temperature:
(1) Human caused increased CO2 emissions into the atmosphere;
(2) Increased evaporation of H2O into the atmosphere;
(3) Increased SI radiations in and onto the atmosphere.

Until someone actually knows these percentages, no one can truly know what has actually caused the 100-year, 1°K increase in the average global temperature from about 286.56°K to about 287.56°K.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Sep, 2009 04:54 am
@parados,
Re: Ionus (Post 3749865)
"For those that can't or won't do the research."

Why is it if you present a reference you state the above. When you are told something the first thing you ask for is a reference. Dont your standards apply to you ?
 

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