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Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

 
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jul, 2009 08:36 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

"Global tax?" Are you serious?

Yes, she is serious.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  2  
Reply Wed 15 Jul, 2009 06:57 pm
http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=f80a6386-802a-23ad-40c8-3c63dc2d02cb

As of December 20, 2007, more than 400 prominent scientists--not a minority of those scientists who have published their views on global warming--from more than two dozen countries have voiced significant objections to major aspects of the alleged UN IPCC "consensus" on man-made global warming.

Quote:

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.SenateReport#report
289
Space Physicist Dr. James Wanliss of Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University, who received a prestigious award from National Science Foundation in 2004, rejects man-made climate fears and teaches an honors course titled "The Politics and Science of Fear." "I fear that attempts are being made to purposefully subvert the public understanding of the nature of science in order to achieve political goals," Wanliss said according to a May 12, 2007 article in Florida's News Journal. "Science is not about consensus, and to invoke this raises the hackles of scientists such as myself. The lure of politics and publicity is no doubt seductive, but it nevertheless amazes me that so many scientists have jumped on the bandwagon of consensus science, apparently forgetting or ignoring the sad history of consensus science," Wanliss explained. "The atmosphere is incredibly complicated, and we know very little about it. We are studying a system which is so big . . . we don't know what all the variables are," he said. "You want certainty, but it's hard to get that," he said. "Science isn't about certainty." Wanliss is heading a team of researchers who will use data gathered from ground- and satellite-based instruments that measure fluctuations in the Earth's magnetic field. (LINK)

parados
 
  0  
Reply Thu 16 Jul, 2009 07:40 am
@ican711nm,
Just a reminder for you ican..

400 is a MINORITY when compared to the 1100 that signed the letter I posted earlier.

400<1100
A published letter is a published viewpoint.

I realize simple math is still hard for you but if I keep posting it, you might figure it out eventually.

By the way ican..
http://www.ucsusa.org/assets/documents/global_warming/Scientist_Economists_Call_to_Action_fnl.pdf
1700 scientists signed this document in 2008 including at least 6 nobel prize winners.

HINT - 1700 is MORE than 400 and also more than 650.

How many nobel prize winners on your list ican since you claim your list is "prominent" scientists?

0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jul, 2009 08:42 am
@ican711nm,
I wonder if anybody is reading what the scientists you are posting are saying, Ican? You've got a way to go with your list. When you get done with it, you can start on this one:

Quote:
Bob Unruh of WorldNetDaily reported that 31,000 U.S. scientists - 9,000 with doctorate degrees in atmospheric science, climatology, Earth science, environment and other specialties - have signed a petition rejecting global warming.

The list of scientists includes 9,021 Ph.D.s, 6,961 at the master’s level, 2,240 medical doctors and 12,850 carrying a bachelor of science or equivalent academic degree.

Global warming assumes that human production of greenhouse gases is destroying the Earth’s climate.

According to the petition, “There is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide, methane, or other greenhouse gases is causing, or will in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth’s atmosphere and disruption of the Earth’s climate.
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/pol/1255144619.html
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  0  
Reply Thu 16 Jul, 2009 09:19 am
Do try to keep up, fox. This is probably the seventh or eighth time some journalistic numbnut who has no idea how to check the validity of his sources has written about this "petition", and some gullible anti-global warming numbnut (I refer of course to the previous posters, fox, not to you) has breathlessly posted it here.

The NAS blasted the petition as deceptive and not representative of its position. The people circulating it are, to put it succinctly, cranks. The only people with some claim to scientific standing who wrote the original paper upon which it is based, Sallie Baliunas and Willie Soon, have been condemned by a very angry majority of the researchers whose work they drew upon as misusing and wrongly interpreting their research.

The "petition", furthermore, was open to anyone to sign, with the notable result that one of the "scientists" who signed was Ginger Hallowell, whose specialty was listed as "biology". She was one of the Spice Girls, the British pop girl group, not noted for their scientific expertise.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Oregon_Institute_of_Science_and_Medicine

Do try to get something with at least a minimal level of credibility, all right?
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jul, 2009 09:23 am
@MontereyJack,
You may be right. I have to go sing for now, but will check out the petition later. But I suspect it is at least as credible as the 'thousands' of scientists purported to be advocating draconian measures to hold off a climate armageddon that they say will otherwise occur.
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  0  
Reply Thu 16 Jul, 2009 09:28 am
Far less credible. Stay on key (my major fault as a singer, why they always put me in the far back row, on the right end, hidden by the curtain)
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  2  
Reply Thu 16 Jul, 2009 12:55 pm
http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=f80a6386-802a-23ad-40c8-3c63dc2d02cb

As of December 20, 2007, more than 400 prominent scientists--not a minority of those scientists who have published their views on global warming--from more than two dozen countries have voiced significant objections to major aspects of the alleged UN IPCC "consensus" on man-made global warming.

Quote:

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.SenateReport#report
290
Oregon State Climatologist George Taylor of Oregon State University's College of Oceanic and Atmospheric Sciences, had his job title threatened by the state's Governor over his skeptical stance on man-made warming fears. Excerpt from a February 8, 2007 article from KGW.com: "[State Climatologist George Taylor] does not believe human activities are the main cause of global climate change...So the [Oregon] governor wants to take that title from Taylor and make it a position that he would appoint. In an exclusive interview with KGW-TV, Governor Ted Kulongoski confirmed he wants to take that title from Taylor." The article quoted Taylor as stating: "Most of the climate changes we have seen up until now have been a result of natural variations."


It is a fact that during the specific 90 year period,
1908 to 1998, CAD increased, SI increased, AoAAGT
increased, and AAGT increased. It is also a fact that
during the specific 11 year period, 1998 to 2008,
CAD increased, SI decreased, AoAAGT decreased, and
AAGT decreased. Because of these facts, SI increases
and decreases are likely to be the major causes of
AoAAGT and AAGT increases and decreases,
and CAD increases are likely to be minor, if not
negligible, causes of increases of AoAAGT and AAGT.


CAGT = CENTURY AVERAGE GLOBALTEMPERATURE,1901-2000, in °K = 287.06°K
AAGT= ANNUAL AVERAGE GLOBALTEMPERATURE in °K
AoAAGT = ANOMALIES of AAGT = AAGT - CAGT in °K
AAGT = CAGT + AoAAGT
CAD = CO2 ATMOSPHERIC DENSITY in PPM
SI = SOLAR IRRADIANCE in W/M^2


parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jul, 2009 02:51 pm
@ican711nm,
400 is a minority compared to the 1700 or the 1100 ican.

I realize you don't understand that but couldn't you at least try to learn something? You are proving that conservatives won't do anything unless there is a reward ie learning requires you get a grade or else you won't learn.
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 08:18 am
For those non-religionists who are looking at all the scientific evidence and want a smile for the day, (and maybe even a religionist or two too), I really like this Harry Alford guy who managed to get a lot said despite Barbara Boxer's efforts to filibuster him into silence. . . . .

Quote:
Black Chamber of Commerce CEO Calls Barbara Boxer A Racist

In an Environment and Public Works hearing today, National Black Chamber of Commerce CEO Harry Alford accused Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-CA) of being a racist. Alford, an opponent of the Waxman-Markey American Clean Energy and Security Act, attacked Boxer for being “racial” when she cited the NAACP’s support of clean energy and climate legislation. Saying he took “offense as an African American and a veteran,” he asked why she didn’t quote an “Asian” instead:

"Madam chair, that is condenscending [sic] to me. I’m the National Black Chamber of Commerce, and you’re trying to put up some other black group to pit against me. . . .

All that’s condescending, and I don’t like it. It’s racial. I don’t like it. I take " I take offense to it. As an African-American and a veteran of this country, I take offense to that. You’re quoting some other black man " why don’t you quote some other Asian or some " I mean, you’re being racial here. And I think you’re getting on a path here that’s going to explode, in the Post. . . .

We’ve been looking at energy policy since 1996. And we are referring to the experts, regardless of their color. And for someone to tell me " an African-American, college-educated veteran of the United States Army " that I must contend with some other black group and put aside everything else in here. This has nothing to do with the NAACP, and really has nothing to do with the National Black Chamber of Commerce! We’re talking about energy. And that " that road the chair went down, I think is God awful."
http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2009/07/16/nbcc-boxer-racial/


The video clip is here:
http://www.breitbart.tv/god-awful-black-chamber-of-commerce-ceo-rips-sen-boxer-for-condescending-racial-remarks/
parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 08:21 am
@Foxfyre,
It was one of several documents that Boxer was bringing up. Alford is right about one thing, his being head of the Black Chamber of Commerce has about as much weight in the energy discussion as the NAACP does.

So, I am not sure why he was even there since he thinks the NAACP shouldn't be involved.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 02:07 pm
@parados,
Parados, your alleged 1700 is a fiction compared to the more than 400 that is not a fiction.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 03:27 pm
@ican711nm,
http://www.ucsusa.org/assets/documents/global_warming/Scientist_Economists_Call_to_Action_fnl.pdf

So, you don't think 1700 people signed this ican?
Then tell us how many signers there actually are.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 04:58 pm
@ican711nm,
ican711nm wrote:

Parados, your alleged 1700 is a fiction compared to the more than 400 that is not a fiction.


The problem with those big lists of pro-AGW scientists is that they don't hold up under close scrutiny. That's why so many that the IPCC initially listed as part of their 'consensus' are showing up on your list of 400 skeptics that you have been publishing. Those big numbers look really good, but its hard to find any evidence of their actual opinions, but you do find opinion that their opinions have been falsified or distorted. Admittedly some skeptics sources have listed names of scientists who subsequently objected to being included, but the unsupportable numbers of those listed by the skeptics are becoming legion.

We've already discredited the IPCC's list. Another that I'm seeing cited a lot is a subsidiary of the "Union of Concerned Scientists'. A close up view of this group finds them consistently among the leftwing AGW religionists, including absolutely no data from any skeptics in their 'scientific research', and being funded by groups who fund mostly groups like them. It isn't that they are disreputable. They aren't. But neither do I think they are honest re their agenda.

The following is long and most doesn't have anything to do with climate change though that is mentioned--the specific paragraphs devoted to that are highlighted--but it does give us a glimpse into at least one opinionated analysis about what one of these groups is all about.

Quote:
PROFILE
Union of Concerned Scientists
2 Brattle Square, Cambridge, MA 02238
Phone 617-547-5552 | Fax 617-864-9405 | Email [email protected]

Committed to an “open-minded search for truth,” and armed with “unrivaled scientific expertise,” the Union of Concerned Scientists (UCS) “doesn’t say anything [it] can’t back up with solid evidence.” At least, that’s what its fund-raising letters say. The reality is quite different.

UCS embraces an environmental agenda that often stands at odds with the “rigorous scientific analysis” it claims to employ. A radical green wolf in sheep’s clothing, UCS tries to distinguish itself from the Greenpeaces of the world by convincing the media that its recommendations reflect a consensus among the scientific community. And that’s what makes it so dangerous.

Whether it’s energy policy or agricultural issues, UCS’s “experts” are routinely given a free pass from newspaper reporters and television producers when they claim that mainstream science endorses their radical agenda.

Here’s how it works:

UCS conducts an opinion poll of scientists or organizes a petition that scientists sign. Then it manipulates or misconstrues the results in order to pronounce that science has spoken. In 1986 UCS asked 549 of the American Physical Society’s 37,000 members if Ronald Reagan’s Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI) was “a step in the wrong direction for America’s national security policy.” Despite the biased wording of the push-poll question, only 54 percent disapproved of SDI. Even so, UCS declared that the poll proved “profound and pervasive skepticism toward SDI in the scientific community.”

More recently, UCS pulled a partisan, election-year stunt in 2004 aimed at the Bush Administration. The group rounded up 60 scientists to sign a statement complaining that “the administration is distorting and censoring scientific findings that contradict its policies; manipulating the underlying science to align results with predetermined political decisions.”

On issue after issue, UCS insists, the White House fails to embrace global scientific “consensus” -- and that automatically means it has “politicized” science. But UCS itself is frequently guilty of that exact sin. For instance, it works overtime to scare Americans about a whole host of imagined environmental problems associated with genetically modified food. But every authoritative regulatory agency, including the Environmental Protection Agency and the World Health Organization, declares that biotech food crops are perfectly safe.

UCS routinely abuses and politicizes science. Its crusade against farm animals receiving antibiotics presents guesswork as scientifically rigorous analysis, and is calculated to scare the public about risks it admits are groundless. UCS helped initiate the vicious attacks on Danish scientist (and “Skeptical Environmentalist”) Bjorn Lomborg, only to be repudiated by the Danish Ministry of Science, Technology, and Industry. And in 2003, the group dressed up its “strong opposition to the US invasion of Iraq” as an exercise in science.

Like many environmental activist groups, UCS uses the twin motivators of cheer and fear. A giggly Gwenyth Paltrow and a catty Cameron Diaz headlined a series of short appeals about energy conservation that UCS produced. The two mega-stars crow that they turn the water off while brushing their teeth, switch off the light when they leave their bedrooms, and keep the thermostat at 65 degrees. “Its time for us to band together and really make every effort to conserve our natural resources,” chirps Diaz. That’s the sunny side.

But UCS is more adept at producing horror stories than chick flicks. They are fear-mongers of the first order -- turning the sober science of health and environmental safety into high drama for public consumption. For example, UCS recently warned that by 2100 the U.S. might suffer 50-80 million more cases of malaria every year if the Senate fails to ratify the Kyoto treaty. Such racy statistics are based on clumsy modeling of worst-case scenarios, and assume -- against all evidence of human behavior -- that no countermeasures whatsoever would be employed. “Not considering factors such as local control measures or health services,” in their own words. Of course, you won’t find those caveats in the press release.

Genetically Modified Science

Among UCS’s many concerns, “the food you eat” is at the top of the list. More than a million dollars went to its food program in 2001. Genetically enhanced foods -- dubbed “Frankenfoods” by opponents -- have caused worldwide hysteria even though no reputable scientific institution can find anything to be afraid of. But that doesn’t stop UCS’s “experts” from playing cheerleader to these unfounded fears.

They warn that biotech foods could result in the “squandering of valuable pest susceptibility genes,” “enhancement of the environment for toxic fungi,” and the “creation of new or worse viruses.” They scream about “Poisoned wildlife” and “new allergens in the food supply.” Biotech foods, they claim, might “increase the levels of toxic substances within plants,” “reduce the effectiveness of antibiotics to fight disease,” “contaminate foods with high levels of toxic metals,” “intensify weedy properties” and cause the “rapid evolution of resistance to herbicides in weeds,” leading to “superweeds.”

Rigorous scientific analysis led UCS to this list of horrors, right? Wrong. That was merely a “‘brainstorming’ of potential harms.” So how likely are any of these to occur? “Risk assessments can be complicated,” UCS says, and pretty much leaves it at that. In other words, they have absolutely no idea.

In contrast, more reputable authorities have a very good grasp of the potential risks of genetically enhanced foods. The U.S. Environmental protection Agency says that genetically enhanced corn “does not pose risks to human health or to the environment.” The World Health Organization says that biotech foods “are not likely to present risks for human health” and observes that “no effects on human health have been shown as a result of the consumption of such foods by the general population.” Even the European Union, which has gone out of its way to stifle food technology for political reasons, notes: “The use of more precise technology [in genetically enhanced crops] and the greater regulatory scrutiny probably make them even safer than conventional plants and foods.”

The Food and Environment Program at UCS is headed up by Margaret Mellon and her deputy Jane Rissler, both of whom hold Ph.Ds and have held positions at prestigious universities. So what do a couple of highly trained research scientists, armed with nothing but guesswork, ideology and a million dollar budget, do? They fight biotech food every step of the way.

Although UCS claims that it “does not support or oppose genetic engineering per se,” Mellon and Rissler in fact have never met a GM food they didn’t mistrust. That’s because they hold biotech foods to an impossibly high standard.

In 1999, UCS joined the National Wildlife Federation, the Sierra Club, the Natural Resources Defense Council, the Arizona-Sonora Desert Museum, and the Defenders of Wildlife, in petitioning the EPA for strict regulation of corn modified to produce large amounts of the bacillus thuringiensis (Bt) toxin. Bt is a naturally occurring insect poison that protects plants from pests like the European corn borer. UCS’s letter was part of a major scare campaign to convince the public that Bt corn posed a risk to the Monarch Butterfly.

Both the USDA and the EPA later concluded that Bt corn caused no harm to the Monarch. This reinforced the findings of federal regulators who had performed a comprehensive safety review of Bt corn before it was allowed into the marketplace. UCS remains unconvinced, even though the safest place for a Monarch larva to be is in a Bt cornfield. Rissler argued there was “insufficient data” to make such a conclusion.

Precautionary Nonsense

Of course, “sufficient” data can never exist for zealots like Rissler. She continued: “Do we assume the technology is safe… or do we prove it? The scientist in me wants to prove it’s safe.” It’s impossible to prove a negative, to absolutely demonstrate that there are no dangers whatsoever for any given product. The scientist in her knows that too, but she and her colleagues at UCS continue to be guided by the “Precautionary Principle.” This misguided maxim argues that, based on the fear that something harmful may possibly arise, we should opt for technological paralysis.

The Wall Street Journal editorialized in 2000 that The Precautionary Principle “is an environmentalist neologism, invoked to trump scientific evidence and move directly to banning things they don’t like.” It’s a big hit among anti-technology activists because it justifies their paranoia and serves to bludgeon technological progress.

Martin Teitel, who runs another misnamed activist group called the Council for Responsible Genetics, admitted as much in 2001. “Politically,” Teitel said, “it’s difficult for me to go around saying that I want to shut this science down, so it’s safer for me to say something like, ‘It needs to be done safely before releasing it.’” Requiring scientists to satisfy the Principle by proving a negative, Teitel added, means that “they don’t get to do it period.”

It should come as no surprise that UCS joined Teitel’s organization and other die-hard opponents of biotech foods in an activist coalition called the Genetic Engineering Action Network. While acknowledging that “we know of no generic harms associated with genetically engineered organisms,” UCS consistently opposes their introduction to the market on the basis of purely hypothetical risk.

Confronted with the real-world benefits of biotech foods, UCS simply changes the subject to its anti-corporate, socialist leanings. Rissler’s appearance on the PBS show Nova " on a program called “Harvest of Fear” -- is a case in point. When the interviewer suggested that “genetically modified crops are arguably much less harmful to the environment” Rissler responded: “It depends on where you want to compromise. There’s another issue here with corporate control of the food supply.”

UCS’s knee-jerk reaction to biotech foods is matched only by its animus towards agribusiness. A 1994 press release condemning FDA approval of biotech foods complained that some of the data used by the oversight agency was provided by private enterprises.

In her zeal to decry increased food production from the corporate adoption of biotechnology, Mellon has argued that it’s “not clear that more milk or pork is good.” And UCS supports a radical vision of “sustainable agriculture.” That means no pesticides or herbicides; no fertilizer (other than E.coli-rich manure); and eating only “locally grown” produce. If it’s not clear under this plan where New York City would get its rice or how Chicago would scrounge up any bananas, there’s a reason for it. They wouldn’t.

Pigs, Chickens and Cows, Oh My!

Hogging It, a UCS report published in 2001, argues that the use of antibiotics in farm animals could result in human diseases that are resistant to conventional treatments. The report received a great deal of press attention, and UCS is not afraid to brag about it. “We developed the numbers that everyone uses when talking about… overuse of antibiotics,” trumpets a fund-raising letter. But how did they go about developing those numbers? “Rigorous scientific analysis”? Hardly. While the livestock industry actually calculates the amounts of antibiotics administered to farm animals using hard sales figures, UCS guesses at average drug dosages and then multiplies by the total number of animals. That’s “brainstorming.” Not science.

The real experts, like David Bell, coordinator of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s anti-microbial resistance programs, aren’t impressed by Hogging It. Interestingly, UCS admits the weakness of its evidence. The executive summary of Hogging It complains about a “gaping chasm” in the data. Nevertheless, the authors are proud to produce the “first transparent estimate” of livestock antibiotic use in America.

Estimate? That’s right. “The numbers everyone uses” are just estimates. Moreover, UCS measures antibiotic usage in total tonnage. But is that relevant in any way? UCS concedes that it’s not. The activist group wants the FDA to track antibiotic usage by “type,” since most antibiotics used in animals are unlike those used in humans.

Consumer Reports quotes Margaret Mellon saying, “We know nothing. We are flying blind.” No wonder the American Veterinary Medical Association and the Coalition for Animal Health also reject Hogging It’s findings. But none of that stops UCS from scaring the wits out of the public. Mellon warns of an “era where untreatable infectious diseases are regrettably commonplace.” That might be worth getting “Concerned” about, if only it were based on good science.

Unfortunately, political science masquerading as real science can have real-world consequences. In July 2003, identical bills introduced in the U.S. House and Senate threatened to ban the routine use of eight entire classes of antibiotics in livestock. Keep Antibiotics Working (KAW), a slick PR coalition of activist groups, was especially pleased with the news because its favorite statistic became the legislation’s main factual “finding.” Namely: “An estimated 70 percent of the antibiotics and other antimicrobial drugs used in the United States are fed to farm animals.”

Guess who “estimated 70 percent” for KAW? The Union of Concerned Scientists, a long-time coalition member. UCS admits that this estimate was created from mere guesswork, saying on its own website that “data to answer [the following] questions are not available”:


What is the total amount of antibiotics used each year in the United States?
How much of this is used to treat human disease?
How much is used in animal agriculture?
How much is used to treat sick animals and how much to promote their growth?
How much of each major class of antibiotics is used as supplements to animal feed or water?
Is agricultural use increasing? By how much?
Which agricultural uses are most likely to contribute to problems in treating human disease?

For a group facing so many unanswered questions, answers seem to come remarkably easily. While freely admitting that no good science exists to determine the effect (if any) of livestock antibiotics on human health, UCS managed to convince members of Congress otherwise. At the same time, UCS activists protested outside fast-food restaurants, holding giant “pillburgers” (prop hamburgers stuffed with oversized drug capsules) and chanting “Hey hey -- ho ho -- Drugs in meat have got to go.”

The Union of Concerned Scientists was born out of a protest against the war in Vietnam. In 1969, a group of 48 faculty members at MIT -- the original “union” -- sponsored a one-day work stoppage of scientific research. A conference that coincided with the strike included appearances from such notables as Noam Chomsky (who is now recognized as a leader of the 21st Century “hate-America left”); Eric Mann, who led the 1960s terrorist Weather Underground; and Jonathan Kabat, who argued: “We want capitalism to come to an end.”

Later that year, when the founding document of the Union of Concerned Scientists was formalized, the United States’ relationship with the Soviet Union was featured even more prominently than environmental issues. Three of the five propositions in the founding document concern political questions of the Cold War -- a topic about which even the brightest physicists and biologists can claim no particular expertise.

UCS continues to involve itself in issues where scientific credentials carry little weight. For example, the group opposes urban sprawl, disputes a war in Iraq, and supports abortion. While these positions may be perfectly legitimate in themselves, they are hardly the product of “rigorous scientific analysis.”

An early petition from UCS argues: “A new ethic is required -- a new attitude towards discharging our responsibility for caring for ourselves and for the earth… This ethic must motivate a great movement.” So activists with lab coats are now presuming to instruct us on matters of ethics and politics.

Among its ethical appeals that have nothing to do with science, UCS’s approach to farming stands out. The activist group advocates “a sustainable approach, based on understanding agriculture as an ecosystem.” They call it an “agroecosystem,” and label it “holistic.” They call it “science”; the rest of us call it Zen.

At UCS, politics drives science -- not the other way around. “We undervalue our scientists and agriculturalists if we accept today’s productive, but highly polluting agriculture,” UCS claims. Of course, UCS advocates organic-only agriculture, the widespread adoption of which (at today’s anemic levels of production) would result in mass starvation. So in this instance, some form of technology will surely have to save the day, even for organic farmers. But when it comes to something UCS opposes -- like missile defense -- they argue that the technology will never work.

Respectable scientists operate by considering a question, developing a methodology to answer that question, and only then arriving at a conclusion. They disdain political interference, and go to the media only when their conclusions warrant immediate public attention. The Union of Concerned Scientists stands this process on its head. It develops a press strategy first, and then conducts politically tainted and methodologically flawed analysis. After all, it’s getting harder to convince the media that your environmental scare is more lurid than the next guy’s. You need good PR. That’s why UCS partners with slick Washington PR firms -- to get attention, whether or not there’s good science behind the sound bites.

By any real scientific yardstick, the Union of Concerned Scientists has a lousy track record. Their predictions are often laughably, and sometimes tragically, wrong. A few examples:

In 1997 UCS organized a petition that warned of “global warming” and advocated U.S. ratification of the Kyoto treaty. It was signed by 1,600 scientists, and so UCS declared that “the scientific community has reached a consensus.” But when a counter-petition that questioned this so-called “consensus” was signed by more than 17,000 other scientists, UCS declared it a “deliberate attempt to deceive the scientific community with misinformation.”

UCS invested significant resources in “a multiyear effort to protect Bacillus thuringiensis, a valuable natural pesticide, by bringing high visibility to a preliminary report on the toxic effect of transgenic [biotech] corn pollen on the Monarch Butterfly.” Unfortunately for them, both the USDA and the EPA have concluded that Bt corn is only a threat to the crop-devastating insects it’s supposed to kill.

Based, we suppose, on some “science” or other, UCS’s Margaret Mellon predicted in 1999 that American farmers would reduce their planting of genetically enhanced seeds in the year 2000, saying it “probably represents a turning point.” What happened? Just the reverse. Planting of biotech crops has increased in 2000, 2001 and 2002 -- and shows no sign of slowing down.

In 1980 UCS predicted that the earth would soon run out of fossil fuels. “It is now abundantly clear,” the group wrote, “that the world has entered a period of chronic energy shortages.” Oops! Known reserves of oil, coal and natural gas have never been higher, and show every sign of increasing.

To improve fuel efficiency, UCS argues for lighter tires on SUVs. But lighter tires are blamed -- even by Ralph’s Nader’s Public Citizen -- for tread separation. 148 deaths and more than 500 injuries were attributed to tread separation in Firestone tires alone.
UCS apparently hasn’t learned from its many, many mistakes. But if at first
Copyright © 2009 Center for Consumer Freedom. All rights reserved.
http://www.activistcash.com/organization_overview.cfm/oid/145
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 05:27 pm
@Foxfyre,
I said this really badly in my previous post:
Quote:
Those big numbers look really good, but its hard to find any evidence of their actual opinions, but you do find opinion that their opinions have been falsified or distorted. Admittedly some skeptics sources have listed names of scientists who subsequently objected to being included, but the unsupportable numbers of those listed by the skeptics are becoming legion.


Okay, what I intended to say:

1. Lists of hundreds and thousands of scientists look really good, but close scrutiny is necessary to authenticate them.

2. Many scientists the IPCC originally claimed to be part of their 'consensus' subsequently objected to being included on that list and in fact were dissenters, not part of the consensus. Some of those have showed up in the comments of the 400 Ican is posting one by one.

3. The bigger list claimed by the UCS also included names that did not consent to be part of a 'consensus' and has been accused by those who have analyzed their opinion of skewing questionnaires dishonestly.

4. Lists of skeptics from time to time also include names who in fact are not skeptics and who objected to being included.

5. Those included in error on the pro-AGW lists seem to great outnumber those included in error on the skeptics' lists.

6. Ican is posting the actual opinion of the list of 400 he is posting, and so far none of those have objected to being included among the skeptics.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 05:41 pm
@Foxfyre,
Since you have me on ignore Fox, how do you know if they list I posted is real or not?

It is a published document that scientists specifically had to endorse. So all your arguments about someone falsely claiming there position is moot.
The link is there for you to go to Fox. It was published in 2008.

Ican's list on the other hand is a list of people ican's office took statements out of context for and claimed they were skeptics.

Quote:

5. Those included in error on the pro-AGW lists seem to great outnumber those included in error on the skeptics' lists.
And could you provide evidence of this? Find me ONE person in the 1700 that signed the document I linked to that has claimed they were included in error.

I provided 3 for ican's list. Can you provide even one out of the 1700?
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 05:46 pm
@Foxfyre,
Quote:
6. Ican is posting the actual opinion of the list of 400 he is posting, and so far none of those have objected to being included among the skeptics.

LOL.. I guess if you don't read my posts then you can make that claim. I listed 3 that aren't skeptics on his list. One that objected to being on the list.
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 06:47 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:
I listed 3 that aren't skeptics on his list. One that objected to being on the list.

Wow! 3 out of more than 400!

By the way, what evidence do you have to support your claim?
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 06:51 pm
http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=f80a6386-802a-23ad-40c8-3c63dc2d02cb

As of December 20, 2007, more than 400 prominent scientists--not a minority of those scientists who have published their views on global warming--from more than two dozen countries have voiced significant objections to major aspects of the alleged UN IPCC "consensus" on man-made global warming.

Quote:

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.SenateReport#report
291
Astronomer and Physicist Dr. Hugh Ross, who has conducted research on quasars and galaxies, expressed global warming skepticism in a December 18, 2006 article entitled "Global Warming -- How Concerned Do We Really Need to be?" "We tend to think Earth's climate will always be optimal for human civilization if we just take better care of it. But nothing could be further from the truth," Ross wrote. "When we put emotion and politics aside and take a rational look at our planet's history, we actually see something quite different. Ice and sediment cores show that over the past four million years, the global climate has oscillated many times. The changes are caused by variations in Earth's orbit. Each cycle lasts about 100,000 years with an ice age typically taking up 90,000 of those years, and a global warming effect, the other 10,000 years," Ross explained. "Contrary to the claims of a few high profile politicians, celebrities, and environmentalists, some of our human activities in fact create a cooling effect," Ross wrote. "The release of aerosols and particulates actually blocks out sunlight and generates light-reflecting cloud layers, especially over densely populated and highly industrialized regions where pollution is loosely, if at all regulated. The bottom line here is that there are dozens of physical, chemical, and biological processes that contribute to both heating and cooling the planet. When any one of these factors gets out of balance with the others, Earth is at risk of losing its optimal climate for human civilization," Ross added. "This delicate balancing act of multiple and diverse natural processes and human activities gives us reason to be cautious. But to suggest that we can stop global warming by simply cutting back on fossil fuel combustion and altering our industrial processes is naïve at best. If we ignore one or more of certain mechanisms that contribute to either global warming or cooling, our attempted solutions could actually make matters worse," he concluded. (LINK)

MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 10:44 pm
You can strike #291, Hugh Ross, from the list, ican, along with all those economists and TV weatherpeople (entertainers, not scientists) on it.

Mark Morano wasn't reading too well when he added Ross, but then Inhofe pays him for numbers, not necessarily accuracy. If you actually read what Ross says, he says that glob al warming is real and its likely to upset the "optimal balance" for human high-ecivilization, which god designed for us (getting a little mystic on us, he is). He and his cowriters say there are other processes at work, which we have to take into account (which the IPCC does, I might add). They suggest that a more important cause of climate change than fossil fuel use might be cows--how can I put this delicately?--cows farting and rice production. Both of which produce methane, which is a more potent greenhouse gas than CO2. Which is accurate, and which the IPCC recognizes, but also which is smaller in scale than CO2 production, which Ross et al don't seem to realize. But their hearts are in the right place. That place, tho, is not where Morano says it is.

And they also think that god tuned nature specifically for human civilization. Which means, given god's past activities, that he is probably getting really, REALLY pissed at those people who deny our screwing around with his system is upsetting its delicate balance. That means you, ican, okie, fox, h2 Oboy.
God's getting ready to smite, and you're in his line of fire, Got lightning rods on your roof? Better get 'em.

http://www.standardnewswire.com/news/85762418.html
0 Replies
 
 

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