74
   

Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

 
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Jun, 2009 05:52 pm
@genoves,
He doesn't seem to know that the important immigrants, from this point of view, live in inner cities and are surrounded by deep belts of suburbia, then more deep belts of posh districts, then miles and miles of farms, then the cops and then the army.

The muezzin's call reaches as far, and then faintly, the cheaper areas of the first ring.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Jun, 2009 12:18 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Well, Switzerland is certainly a tiny spot for someone in the USA.

But "Central England" as mentioned in the data sets, is just a "region representative of the English Midlands", namely parts of (historic) Staffordshire, Shropshire and North Warwickshire.

Switzerland has an area of 41,284 km². "Central England" just covers the area between 52°30' to 53°N, 1°45' to 2°15'W.

This may be beating a dead horse, but can you translate the area of Central England into square kilometers? I could do it, but it takes time and since you are claiming to be an expert on what areas are important and are not important, maybe you could provide that information, Walter?
genoves
 
  0  
Reply Wed 24 Jun, 2009 12:29 am
He thinks he's an expert, Okie. The truth is that he went to one of those third rate schools in Chermany and really hasn't learned very much. He should have tried MIT or CIT, if he could have been admitted. I doubt he would have gone to either one, though--too many Jews, you know!!!
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Jun, 2009 02:52 am
@okie,
okie wrote:

This may be beating a dead horse, but can you translate the area of Central England into square kilometers? I could do it, but it takes time and since you are claiming to be an expert on what areas are important and are not important, maybe you could provide that information, Walter?


I could do, too. But since I gave you the basic data, and since some dozens of maps are online where you can visualise that ...

(My only "expert knowledge on areas" comes from what I've learnt at school and at the naval college.)
sangiusto
 
  0  
Reply Wed 24 Jun, 2009 03:03 am
@Walter Hinteler,
The NavalCollege? I thought they sunk the Bismark!
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Jun, 2009 01:19 pm
Pelosi took a test vote earlier today on the Cap and Trade bill (call that Cap and Tax bill) due for a vote later this afternoon. The Democrats narrowly won with 30 or more from highly industrialized states voting no. Others may defect and vote no yet as they know the voters are going to be madder than hell when they find out what is in this bill and how much it is going to cost them.

If you haven't called and emailed your Congressman and urged him/her to vote no, please do so now.

From the WSJ:
Quote:
JUNE 26, 2009
The Climate Change Climate Change
The number of skeptics is swelling everywhere.

Steve Fielding recently asked the Obama administration to reassure him on the science of man-made global warming. When the administration proved unhelpful, Mr. Fielding decided to vote against climate-change legislation.

If you haven't heard of this politician, it's because he's a member of the Australian Senate. As the U.S. House of Representatives prepares to pass a climate-change bill, the Australian Parliament is preparing to kill its own country's carbon-emissions scheme. Why? A growing number of Australian politicians, scientists and citizens once again doubt the science of human-caused global warming.

Among the many reasons President Barack Obama and the Democratic majority are so intent on quickly jamming a cap-and-trade system through Congress is because the global warming tide is again shifting. It turns out Al Gore and the United Nations (with an assist from the media), did a little too vociferous a job smearing anyone who disagreed with them as "deniers." The backlash has brought the scientific debate roaring back to life in Australia, Europe, Japan and even, if less reported, the U.S.

In April, the Polish Academy of Sciences published a document challenging man-made global warming. In the Czech Republic, where President Vaclav Klaus remains a leading skeptic, today only 11% of the population believes humans play a role. In France, President Nicolas Sarkozy wants to tap Claude Allegre to lead the country's new ministry of industry and innovation. Twenty years ago Mr. Allegre was among the first to trill about man-made global warming, but the geochemist has since recanted. New Zealand last year elected a new government, which immediately suspended the country's weeks-old cap-and-trade program.

The number of skeptics, far from shrinking, is swelling. Oklahoma Sen. Jim Inhofe now counts more than 700 scientists who disagree with the U.N. -- 13 times the number who authored the U.N.'s 2007 climate summary for policymakers. Joanne Simpson, the world's first woman to receive a Ph.D. in meteorology, expressed relief upon her retirement last year that she was finally free to speak "frankly" of her nonbelief. Dr. Kiminori Itoh, a Japanese environmental physical chemist who contributed to a U.N. climate report, dubs man-made warming "the worst scientific scandal in history." Norway's Ivar Giaever, Nobel Prize winner for physics, decries it as the "new religion." A group of 54 noted physicists, led by Princeton's Will Happer, is demanding the American Physical Society revise its position that the science is settled. (Both Nature and Science magazines have refused to run the physicists' open letter.)

The collapse of the "consensus" has been driven by reality. The inconvenient truth is that the earth's temperatures have flat-lined since 2001, despite growing concentrations of C02. Peer-reviewed research has debunked doomsday scenarios about the polar ice caps, hurricanes, malaria, extinctions, rising oceans. A global financial crisis has politicians taking a harder look at the science that would require them to hamstring their economies to rein in carbon.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124597505076157449.html
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Jun, 2009 02:27 pm
@Foxfyre,
Update on the Cap & Trade bill vote--last I heard, Pelosi had suspended debate for awhile. I'm thinking the phone calls--the lines have been jammed for 24 hours now--are taking their toll, but the vote is still scheduled for late this afternoon or early evening.

If you haven't called your Congressperson in Washington to register your opinion on this, the largest tax increase in our nation's history, please do so now. If you can't get through in Washington, look up his/her local office and call there. This is too important to let just slide through.....a massive bill with only four amendments (all Democrat) allowed.....and nobody has apparently even read the whole thing.

Quote:
How Big Is the Tax?

The Heritage Foundation's Center for Data Analysis (CDA) found that, after adjusting for inflation, the government would collect $5.7 trillion in tax revenue between 2012 and 2035. CDA's economic analysis found that, by 2035, the Waxman-Markey cap-and-trade legislation would also:

Raise electricity rates 90 percent after adjusting for inflation;
Raise inflation-adjusted gasoline prices by 58 percent;
Raise residential natural gas prices by 55 percent; and
Raise an average family's annual energy bill by $1,241.[2]
But the $1,241 annual energy bill is just the direct increase in energy prices that consumers face. As energy prices increase, the cost of making products becomes more expensive. Businesses will pass the higher costs of operating onto the consumer, which will be reflected in the higher prices Americans pay for products.

Higher energy prices also result in a slower economy, which means less production, higher unemployment, and reduced income. As the higher production costs ripple through the economy, household pocketbooks get hit again and again. When all the direct and indirect energy tax impacts have been added up, family-of-four costs rise by $2,979 per year on average over the 2012-2035 timeframe. In 2035 alone, the cost is $4,609.[3]

Over the same timeframe, gross domestic product losses--the excess burden or deadweight loss of taxation--totals $9.4 trillion. It is important to note that these higher energy bills come after people have to use much less energy as a result of increased prices.
http://www.heritage.org/research/energyandenvironment/wm2476.cfm


0 Replies
 
Deckland
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Jun, 2009 04:14 pm
Nobel Laureate George Wald said in 1970 : `Civilisation will end within 15 or 30 years unless immediate action is taken against problems facing mankind'. Another surprising prediction came from ecologist Kenneth Watt who said: `The world has been chilling sharply for about 20 years. If present trends continue, the world will be about four degrees colder for the global mean temperature in 1990, but 11 degrees colder in the year 2000. This is about twice what it would take to put us into an ice age'
Hummm what happened to the ice age ? Oh that's right, it's now global warming.
Politicians know people will happily shell out money to stop the doom and gloom, so is born carbon trading. A nuclear exchange with a mentally ill dictator is more of a real concern than a normally occurring temperature rise of the planet.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Jun, 2009 05:56 pm
@Deckland,
Quote:
Politicians and nappies need to be changed often, and for the same reason.


That's neat.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Jun, 2009 06:19 pm
The climate bill passed by the narrowest of margins. More than 40 Democrats voted against it. If 8 Republicans had not voted for it, it would not have passed. Now our only hope is that the Senate has their heads on straight.
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Jun, 2009 01:33 pm
@Foxfyre,
I posted this on the conservatism thread too, but it also needs to be here:

For those who want to see how the vote for the so-called "Clean Energy Act" that narrowly passed on Friday looked:

http://i456.photobucket.com/albums/qq289/LindaBee_2008/HR2454_CleanEnergyAct.jpg?

Of course the more onerous provisions of the act won't start kicking in until after the 2010 election and won't be fully felt at the local level until after the 2012 election. By then our fearless leaders figure they'll have enough distance between their vote and the voters' wrath.

The act includes massive expenditure on solar power development. Meanwhile, in the Albuquerque Journal today, is a front page story discussing that most of this solar power development will need to go where the sun shines most in the uSA which happens to be in the desert southwest where there is very little water. Most energy producing plants, including solar, use massive amounts of water, but other forms of energy producing plants can be located where plenty of water is. That does not seem to be the case with solar power plants.

0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  2  
Reply Mon 29 Jun, 2009 04:29 pm
EPA Skeptic repressed????? Fox News reports. You decide.

For the last couple of years or more, AGW proponents have intermittently complained that the Bush administration suppressed information favorable to the theory of AGW, even though President Bush jumped wholeheartedly onto the AGW bandwagon the last year or so of his administration.

Now that similar complaints are surfacing that the current administration is suppressing the voice of the skeptics, I wonder if the same people will agree that suppression of opinion and information on the subject is a bad thing?

Monday - June 29, 2009
Quote:
EPA analyst Alan Carlin raised questions about the impact of global warming on areas like Greenland. Shown here is an iceberg off Ammassalik Island, Greenland. (AP Photo)

A top Republican senator has ordered an investigation into the Environmental Protection Agency's alleged suppression of a report that questioned the science behind global warming.

The 98-page report, co-authored by EPA analyst Alan Carlin, pushed back on the prospect of regulating gases like carbon dioxide as a way to reduce global warming. Carlin's report argued that the information the EPA was using was out of date, and that even as atmospheric carbon dioxide levels have increased, global temperatures have declined.

"He came out with the truth. They don't want the truth at the EPA," Sen. James Inhofe, R-Okla, a global warming skeptic, told FOX News, saying he's ordered an investigation. "We're going to expose it."

The controversy comes after the House of Representatives passed a landmark bill to regulate greenhouse gas emissions, one that Inhofe said will be "dead on arrival" in the Senate despite President Obama's energy adviser voicing confidence in the measure.

According to internal e-mails that have been made public by the Competitive Enterprise Institute, Carlin's boss told him in March that his material would not be incorporated into a broader EPA finding and ordered Carlin to stop working on the climate change issue. The draft EPA finding released in April lists six greenhouse gases, including carbon dioxide, that the EPA says threaten public health and welfare.

An EPA official told FOXNews.com on Monday that Carlin, who is an economist -- not a scientist -- included "no original research" in his report. The official said that Carlin "has not been muzzled in the agency at all," but stressed that his report was entirely "unsolicited."

"It was something that he did on his own," the official said. "Though he was not qualified, his manager indulged him and allowed him on agency time to draft up ... a set of comments."

Despite the EPA official's remarks, Carlin told FOXNews.com on Monday that his boss, National Center for Environmental Economics Director Al McGartland, appeared to be pressured into reassigning him.

Carlin said he doesn't know whether the White House intervened to suppress his report but claimed it's clear "they would not be happy about it if they knew about it," and that McGartland seemed to be feeling pressure from somewhere up the chain of command.

Carlin said McGartland told him he had to pull him off the climate change issue.

"It was reassigning you or losing my job, and I didn't want to lose my job," Carlin said, paraphrasing what he claimed were McGartland's comments to him. "My inference (was) that he was receiving some sort of higher-level pressure."
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/06/29/gop-senator-calls-inquiry-supressed-climate-change-report/
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Jun, 2009 07:32 pm
@Foxfyre,
Quote:
According to internal e-mails that have been made public by the Competitive Enterprise Institute, Carlin's boss told him in March that his material would not be incorporated into a broader EPA finding and ordered Carlin to stop working on the climate change issue. The draft EPA finding released in April lists six greenhouse gases, including carbon dioxide, that the EPA says threaten public health and welfare.

An EPA official told FOXNews.com on Monday that Carlin, who is an economist -- not a scientist -- included "no original research" in his report. The official said that Carlin "has not been muzzled in the agency at all," but stressed that his report was entirely "unsolicited."


OMG.. The EPA told an "economist" that his report on global warming presented nothing new and he shouldn't be working on something he knows nothing about on company time.

If this was a liberal employee, you would be whining that he should have been fired Fox.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Tue 30 Jun, 2009 06:51 am
Obama is covering up the truth!
Obamabots and the dumbmasses don't care!
Man made climate change is a SCAM!




"He came out with the truth. They don't want the truth at the EPA," Sen. James Inhofe, R-Okla,
a global warming skeptic, told FOX News, saying he's ordered an investigation. "We're going to expose it."
parados
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Jun, 2009 07:18 am
@H2O MAN,
What truth did he come out with Squirt?

He is an economist that commented on climatology. I doubt he told any truths other than the lies that Inhofe likes to hear.
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Tue 30 Jun, 2009 07:21 am
@parados,


Parasite... why do you care?
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Jun, 2009 08:24 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

EPA Skeptic repressed????? Fox News reports. You decide.
... ... ...


That seems to be a suppression of science. Of an apparently very, very flaky science:

Quote:
[...]
First off the authors of the submission; Alan Carlin is an economist and John Davidson is an ex-member of the Carter administration Council of Environmental Quality. Neither are climate scientists. That's not necessarily a problem - perhaps they have mastered multiple fields? - but it is likely an indication that the analysis is not going to be very technical (and so it will prove). Curiously, while the authors work for the NCEE (National Center for Environmental Economics), part of the EPA, they appear to have rather closely collaborated with one Ken Gregory (his inline comments appear at multiple points in the draft). Ken Gregory if you don't know is a leading light of the Friends of Science - a astroturf anti-climate science lobbying group based in Alberta. Indeed, parts of the Carlin and Davidson report appear to be lifted directly from Ken's rambling magnum opus on the FoS site. However, despite this odd pedigree, the scientific points could still be valid.

Their main points are nicely summarised thus: a) the science is so rapidly evolving that IPCC (2007) and CCSP (2009) reports are already out of date, b) the globe is cooling!, c) the consensus on hurricane/global warming connections has moved from uncertain to ambiguous, d) Greenland is not losing mass, no sirree…, e) the recession will save us!, f) water vapour feedback is negative!, and g) Scafetta and West's statistical fit of temperature to an obsolete solar forcing curve means that all other detection and attribution work is wrong. From this "evidence", they then claim that all variations in climate are internal variability, except for the warming trend which is caused by the sun, oh and by the way the globe is cooling.

Devastating eh?

One can see a number of basic flaws here; the complete lack of appreciation of the importance of natural variability on short time scales, the common but erroneous belief that any attribution of past climate change to solar or other forcing means that CO2 has no radiative effect, and a hopeless lack of familiarity of the basic science of detection and attribution.

But it gets worse, what solid peer reviewed science do they cite for support? A heavily-criticised blog posting showing that there are bi-decadal periods in climate data and that this proves it was the sun wot done it. The work of an award-winning astrologer (one Theodor Landscheidt, who also thought that the rise of Hitler and Stalin were due to cosmic cycles), a classic Courtillot paper we've discussed before, the aforementioned FoS web page, another web page run by Doug Hoyt, a paper by Garth Paltridge reporting on artifacts in the NCEP reanalysis of water vapour that are in contradiction to every other reanalysis, direct observations and satellite data, a complete reprint of another un-peer reviewed paper by William Gray, a nonsense paper by Miskolczi etc. etc. I'm not quite sure how this is supposed to compete with the four rounds of international scientific and governmental review of the IPCC or the rounds of review of the CCSP reports….

... ... ...
Source
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 30 Jun, 2009 08:33 am
@Walter Hinteler,


Global warming supporters are very, very flaky.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Jun, 2009 08:43 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Well, if I was going to accuse anybody of flaky science, I certainly wouldn't go to Real Climate as a credible source. This shadowy organization who doesn't post much information on its sources or funding is most likely an arm of the ultra leftwing leftist agenda promoting organization, Fenton Communications. I don't believe they have ever agreed with ANY science or data that would cast any doubt that whatever global warming is occurring is primarily due to anthropogenic activity.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Jun, 2009 08:50 am
@Foxfyre,
That might be so. (The author is a climate modeller at the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies,)
 

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