Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

@Foxfyre,

YOU insist on results and effectiveness! Where were you during the past eight years as Bush dragged out country down. You were a major sychophant.

As far your need to see bad things, I gather you feel nothing should be done unless you actually see these things. I lot of terrible things would not be visable to you, so you would say nothing should be done. Great!

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Central England comes in at an average of 9.96 for the year, 3.5 for December, which is about a half degree cooler average for the year than last year, darn it, the data is not cooperating with Al Gore.

http://www.junkscience.com/MSU_Temps/Warming_Look.html#CET

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@okie,

Hmm, and the actual weather report from here is that we got the coldest winter since 13 years (hell" fife nights now below 17°C!).

That's about the weather, thanks okie.

Back to climate change ...

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@Walter Hinteler,

I would say a years worth of weather borders on climate, Walter, and last time I checked, England was part of the planet.

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@okie,

okie wrote:

I would say a years worth of weather borders on climate,

Your word in God's ear as we say here.

Be sure that your terminology gets known!

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@Advocate,

Advocate wrote:

YOU insist on results and effectiveness! Where were you during the past eight years as Bush dragged out country down. You were a major sychophant.

As far your need to see bad things, I gather you feel nothing should be done unless you actually see these things. I lot of terrible things would not be visable to you, so you would say nothing should be done. Great!

What President Bush did or did not accomplish and/or what was or was not his doing is a different subject than the topic of this thread except as it relates to policies re climate change and global warming. If you would take off your partisan blinders long enough to pay any attention at all, you would acknowledge that I have approved of very few of his more recent policies re climate change/global warming. As I did with President Clinton before him, I have recognized policies he supported that I approved because I believe they have proved to be effective and beneficial and quite a few policies he supported which I opposed and believe to have produced unintended bad consequences.

I wonder if you can say the same?

I have lived long enough, however, to have studied enough history and to have experienced the results of enough government to believe with all my heart that government mandates, laws, and policy should be based on experience and proven criteria and not on hope that they work out.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

okie wrote:

I would say a years worth of weather borders on climate,

Your word in God's ear as we say here.

Be sure that your terminology gets known!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate

Climate (from Ancient Greek klima, meaning inclination) is commonly defined as the weather averaged over a long period of time.[2] The standard averaging period is 30 years,[3] but other periods may be used depending on the purpose. Climate also includes statistics other than the average, such as the magnitudes of day-to-day or year-to-year variations. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) glossary definition is:

Climate in a narrow sense is usually defined as the “average weather”, or more rigorously, as the statistical description in terms of the mean and variability of relevant quantities over a period of time ranging from months to thousands or millions of years. The classical period is 30 years, as defined by the World Meteorological Organization (WMO). These quantities are most often surface variables such as temperature, precipitation, and wind. Climate in a wider sense is the state, including a statistical description, of the climate system.[4]

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If this is a discussion now about 'climate change in the narrow sense' = "average weather"...

Have fun!

We might 'meet' on another thread.

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@Walter Hinteler,

So, what is the time frame you give me to discuss here, Walter? How many years of weather is the cutoff for discussion as part of climate? Apparently one or two years of weather doesn't pass muster for discussion here?

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@MontereyJack,

Again!

http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/data/temperature/nhshgl.gif

Average Annual Global Temperature

Quote:

ftp://ftp.cmdl.noaa.gov/ccg/co2/trends/co2_mm_mlo.txt
http://biocab.org/Solar_Irradiance_is_Actually_Increasing.html
http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/data/temperature/hadcrut3gl.txt
YEAR | CAD is up | SI is down | ANOMALY of AAGT is down|
1998 367.61 1366.11 0.546
1999 368.59 1366.39 0.296
2000 370.33 1366.67 0.270
2001 371.83 1366.40 0.409
2002 374.45 1366.37 0.464
2003 376.71 1366.07 0.473
2004 378.23 1365.91 0.447
2005 380.78 1365.81 0.482
2006 382.55 1365.72 0.422
2007 384.60 1365.66 0.405
2008 386.20 1365.60 0.324

CAGT = CENTURY AVERAGE GLOBALTEMERATURE, 1901-2000 = 287.06 °K
AAGT= ANNUAL AVERAGE GLOBAL TEMPERATURE in °K
ANOMALY of AAGT = AAGT - CAGT in °K
SI = SOLAR IRRADIANCE in W/M^2
CAD = CO2 ATMOSPHERIC DENSITY in PPM
MAD = MISCELLANEOUS ATMOSPHERIC DENSITIES in PPM

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@okie,

okie wrote:

Apparently one or two years of weather doesn't pass muster for discussion here?

You're joking, right? Even at high school classes they give you a better idea ...

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@okie,

Desert is based on amount of rainfall for the average year.

If you want to use one year for climate that means a single drought year could turn a climate into desert.

Are you willing to argue that climates change that fast okie?

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@ican711nm,

Posting those numbers continuously doesn't change their meaning ican.

Your interpretation of them is still garbage.

Quote:

ANOMALY of AAGT is down

And what scientific method did you use to determine that statement?

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@okie,

okie wrote:

So, what is the time frame you give me to discuss here, Walter? How many years of weather is the cutoff for discussion as part of climate? Apparently one or two years of weather doesn't pass muster for discussion here?

You're beating a dead horse on this one, Okie. The AGW advocates allow themselves the luxury of posting article after article showing that such and such place had the warmest year on record, etc. as smug evidence that global warming is real and happening, but you are not allowed to do the same as a basis to consider that maybe global warming is overblown.

You're looking for reason and reasonable (as well as fairness) in places in which these seem really scarce these days.

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@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

okie wrote:

So, what is the time frame you give me to discuss here, Walter? How many years of weather is the cutoff for discussion as part of climate? Apparently one or two years of weather doesn't pass muster for discussion here?

You're beating a dead horse on this one, Okie. The AGW advocates allow themselves the luxury of posting article after article showing that such and such place had the warmest year on record, etc. as smug evidence that global warming is real and happening, but you are not allowed to do the same as a basis to consider that maybe global warming is overblown.

You're looking for reason and reasonable (as well as fairness) in places in which these seem really scarce these days.

I learned something here from Walter, and perhaps he should let the IPCC and other climate organizations know that this years numbers are just weather, they have nothing to do with climate whatsoever, and therefore should not be discussed at all in regard to climate, or perhaps not even added to the existing data?

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@okie,

okie wrote:

I learned something here from Walter, and perhaps he should let the IPCC and other climate organizations know that this years numbers are just weather, they have nothing to do with climate whatsoever, and therefore should not be discussed at all in regard to climate, or perhaps not even added to the existing data?

Could you kindly verify that a bit?

After having looked at the definitions given used by the IPCC, the international organisations and encyclopaedias I'll still believe, it wasn't wrong at all what my teachers taught me at grammar school and later at the Naval College ...

Quote:

Climate
Climate is usually defined as the "average weather", or more
rigorously, as the statistical description of the weather in terms of the
mean and variability of relevant quantities over periods of several
decades (typically three decades as defined by WMO). These quantities
are most often surface variables such as temperature, precipitation, and
wind, but in a wider sense the "climate" is the description of the state
of the climate system.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter, I posted last years averages for England, and you suggested I post it somewhere else, it was just weather. Now which is it? Am I permitted to post it here or not? You post cryptic answers, but no clear answer to my question.

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Global surface temperatures have increased about 0.74°C (plus or minus 0.18°C) since the late-19th century, and the linear trend for the past 50 years of 0.13°C (plus or minus 0.03°C) per decade is nearly twice that for the past 100 years. The warming has not been globally uniform. Some areas (including parts of the southeastern U.S. and parts of the North Atlantic) have, in fact, cooled slightly over the last century. The recent warmth has been greatest over North America and Eurasia between 40 and 70°N. Lastly, seven of the eight warmest years on record have occurred since 2001 and the 10 warmest years have all occurred since 1995.

NCDC/NOAA

The last sentence should tell you something.

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@okie,

When I had to code weather data for the German national metrology institute (and especially NATO) - these data were indeed crytic. (A quite funny aside: though the official were more complex than those for NATO, the NATO-data were 'secret' and those for the WMO were transmitted openly.)

Years averages for one year are weather data. Over a period of about 30 years, combined with different other data/statistics (see above and links below), they become "climate data".

Quote:

Weather is the state of the atmosphere at a particular place or region during a short period of time.
Weather differs from climate in that the latter includes the synthesis of weather conditions that have prevailed over a given area during a long time period"generally 30 years. ... ... ...

Source: "weather." Encyclopædia Britannica. 2009. Encyclopædia Britannica Online. 12 Jan. 2009 (http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/638309/weather)

Quote:

Climate is the conditions of the atmosphere at a particular location over a long period of time; it is the long-term summation of the atmospheric elements (and their variations) that, over short time periods, constitute weather. These elements are solar radiation, temperature, humidity, precipitation (type, frequency, and amount), atmospheric pressure, and wind (speed and direction). ... ... ...

Source: "climate." Encyclopædia Britannica. 2009. Encyclopædia Britannica Online. 12 Jan. 2009 (http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/121560/climate)

Link to IPCC website with downloadable glossary.

"Climate" at the WMO website.

---------------

You didn't post at all, as you claimed, weather data for "England", okie, but for "Central England". And that is

Quote:

a region representative of the English Midlands

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@Walter Hinteler,

I will try again, Walter, do I have your permission to post annual temperatures, weather averages for the year, from England, on this thread, or is that not allowed? Does it apply to this climate discussion, or does it have nothing at all to do with it? I will be here anxiously awaiting your decision, ruling, whatever. Take as much time as you think you need. If you cannot come up with an answer, thats okay too, but please let me know one way or the other, so I can become a better poster here.

3 Replies

Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

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