71
   

Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

 
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Dec, 2008 12:03 pm
ARCTIC ICE SHELF KEEPS SHRINKING
-----------------------------------------------------
http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/world/2008/12/16/arctic-ice-melting-at-alarming-pace-as-temperatures-rise.html

Quote:
Arctic Ice Melting at Alarming Pace as Temperatures Rise
New studies show that the region is warming even faster than many scientists had feared
By Thomas Omestad
Posted December 16, 2008
New studies being released this week indicate that climate change is exerting massive and worrying change on the Arctic region"reducing the volume of ice, releasing methane gas into the atmosphere, and dramatically raising air temperatures in some parts of the Arctic.

The findings will give fresh urgency to international deliberations on the next global climate change pact planned for December 2009 in Copenhagen. The studies also will likely intensify international pressure on the incoming Obama administration to embrace major cuts in the emission of greenhouse gases in an effort to help stabilize global temperatures.

NASA scientists will reveal that more than 2 trillion tons of land ice on Greenland and Alaska, along with in Antarctica, have melted since 2003. Satellite measurements suggest half of the loss has come from Greenland. Melting of land ice slowly raises sea levels.

The World Meteorological Organization, a United Nations agency, is also reporting that ice volume in the Arctic this year fell to its lowest recorded level to date.

Experts from the National Snow and Ice Data Center in Colorado will further reveal that temperatures this fall in some Arctic areas north of Alaska were 9 or 10 degrees Fahrenheit above average. The long-predicted phenomenon is known as "Arctic amplification." As global air temperatures increase, the Arctic tends to show greater changes because the ice pack that once reflected solar heat is reduced in scope. More heat is therefore absorbed. The study is being discussed at a meeting of the American Geophysical Union in San Francisco.

Says NASA climate scientist H. Jay Zwally, "We may be going through a tipping point [in climate change] right now." He adds, "Once the ice goes away, you're absorbing much more heat." The Arctic, he says, is showing two to three times the overall global rate of temperature increase.

The Arctic, adds Mark Serreze of the National Snow and Ice Data Center, plays a key role in global weather. "You're starting to fundamentally change the Arctic refrigerator," he says. "You're fiddling with the dials on that refrigerator"maybe changing weather patterns well beyond the Arctic."

The changes in the Arctic, analysts predict, will launch an unprecedented era of oil and gas exploration, mineral exploitation, shipping, fishing, and tourism"all placing a fragile ecosystem at risk. One result of the new opportunities could begeopolitical competition among the five countries with Arctic Ocean frontage: Russia, the United States, Canada, Denmark (through Greenland), and Norway.

The changes are also being documented by visitors to the Arctic. Minnesota polar explorer Will Steger this June encountered high, jagged blocks of ice near Canada's Ellesmere Island that ultimately forced his team to change its plans. The ice blocks were apparently from ice shelves that had broken off.

"We were traveling over the ruins of the Arctic Ocean," Steger said. "Five, 10, 20 years from now, when we see this picture clearly, we won't believe what we've done."
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Dec, 2008 12:49 pm
So how is the ice on your end of the lake this year, Hamburger? Any improvement?
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Dec, 2008 04:09 pm
@Foxfyre,
I just saw a guy blaming man made global warming for the floods in Venice in the 60's. He blamed the tourists more for killing the place.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Dec, 2008 05:31 pm
@hamburger,
Walter, please explain what specific data I posted about growth in CO2 density in the atmosphere and fluctuations in the average global temperature you think are invalid. Then please explain why you disagree and what specific data you have access to that you think is valid.

Alleged ocean ice cracking up or melting in the Arctic does not reveal current global annual average temperature changes. It only reveals a specific region's current ocean temperature increases.

The data I posted says among other things:
1. 20,000 years ago the average annual global temperature was about 56.0 °F.
2. Currently, the average annual global temperature is about 57.7 °F.
3. 20,000 years ago the CO2 density in the earth's atmosphere was 180 ppm.
4. Currently, the CO2 density in the earth's atmosphere is 386 ppm.
5. Over that period, the average annual global temperature has increased irratically from 56.o °F 20,000 years ago to 57.7 °F currently--a 3.04% increase.
6. Over that period, the CO2 density in the earth's atmosphere has increased steadily from 180 ppm 20,000 years ago to 386 ppm currently--a 14.44% increase.

By the way, in aviation for the purposes of calibrating aircraft airspeed, altitutde, and verticle speed instrument guages, the standard global sea level temperature was determined to be 59.0 °F, with differences of actual temperature variations on the ground and at altitude used to calibrate instruments both on the ground and at altitude. By that standard the earth's actual current average global temperature is cool, not hot nor even warm.
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Dec, 2008 05:40 pm
@ican711nm,
Also, atmospheric CO2 increasing steadily, when temperatures are increasing and decreasing irratically, does not demonstrate that CO2 is causing the temporature changes in either regional or in average global temperatures.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Dec, 2008 09:44 pm
@ican711nm,
And I suppose in your world, the waves prove the tide doesn't go in or out.
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2008 01:11 pm
@parados,
In my world the tide steadily goes up and down causing it to go in and out, respectively, generally as a consequence of the moon steadily orbiting the earth. Also, irratic occurences of irratic sized storms irratically affect the tide up and down and in and out, respectively. That computes!

BUT, it has been repeatedly alleged that steadily increasing CO2 in the atmosphere causes average annual global temperatures to irratically, and not steadily, go up and down. That doesn't compute!
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2008 01:40 pm
Which nonsense were you referring to High Seas?

Perhaps you can tell us how ican's statement is true since that is what I responded to. Because the temperature varies doesn't disprove a global increase any more than variation in waves would disprove the tides. If you disagree then present your argument.

Quote:
There is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide, methane, or other greenhouse gases is causing or will, in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth’s atmosphere and disruption of the Earth’s climate.
Nice strawman there High Seas.


Of course there is no convincing scientific evidence that increases in carbon dioxide won't cause catastrophic heating either since you want to argue the extremes. The science is pretty clear that we have had warming the last century. No one really disputes that, not even the majority of the scientists in that silly minority report. That report could just as well be called "Scientists don't agree on every detail." Not big news, but disingenuous to use it as proof that warming doesn't exist and isn't caused in part by man's actions.
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2008 02:03 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:
The science is pretty clear that we have had warming the last century.

Yes indeed we have had warming the last century. And, we have had cooling the last century.

What is being debated is the cause of that warming and cooling. Some, including you parados, have alleged that the increase of CO2 in the atmosphere is the major cause. Others, including me, have alleged that the increase of CO2 in the atmosphere is not the major cause.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2008 02:18 pm
@ican711nm,
Once again you confuse waves with tides.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2008 02:41 pm
More evidence of global warming:
http://media.lvrj.com/images/snow-sign.jpg
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2008 02:57 pm
@okie,
On another thread I suggested ... something.

I know that you don't understand climate change, but could you please read some information which explain the difference between "weather" and "climate"? And afterwards, perhaps something deeper in the subject.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2008 03:00 pm
@okie,
Evidence that the earth's tilt hasn't changed is more like it okie.

Las Vegas averages 27 days with temperatures below freezing each year with 10 0f those occurring in December. It just happens to be December so not much of a surprise that it got cold enough to snow.
okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2008 04:27 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter and Parados, of course its weather. You need a sense of humor. You perhaps don't realize that it is something to get under the skin of global warmers, I am not using it to disprove whatever warming there might be, but I do think it serves as a reminder that weather is not changing much. The global warmers like to use anecdotal evidence, so why isn't turnabout fair play? It is in fact very unusual to snow much in Las Vegas, Parados.
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2008 04:49 pm
@parados,
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/Mauna_Loa_Carbon_Dioxide.png
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/Mauna_Loa_Carbon_Dioxide.png
http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/data/temperature/nhshgl.gif
http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/data/temperature/nhshgl.gif
Quote:

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/2007/ann/global.html
Climate of 2007
Annual Report
National Climatic Data Center
15 January 2008
...
The 1901-2000 average combined land and ocean annual temperature is 13.9°C (56.9°F), the annually averaged land temperature for the same period is 8.5°C (47.3°F), and the long-term annually averaged sea surface temperature is 16.1°C (60.9°F).




parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Dec, 2008 11:53 am
@okie,
In case you didn't realize it okie, Las Vegas is in the desert. It is unusual for there to be precipitation. To argue that a record snow fall in the desert somehow is anecdotal evidence against climate change is pretty silly on a couple of counts.
1. anecdotal evidence of a single weather instance doesn't prove anything about "global climate."
2. Record precipitation in a desert doesn't argue against climate change since a desert's climate would lack of precipitation.

Quote:
The global warmers like to use anecdotal evidence
What anecdotal evidence do they use okie? I am curious as to what you think is anecdotal.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Dec, 2008 11:54 am
@ican711nm,
So tell us ican. Is the temperature for 2008 above or below the average for the last 100 years?
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Dec, 2008 01:14 pm
@parados,
Parados, perhaps the following will help you answer your question yourself.

AVERAGE ANNUAL GLOBAL TEMPERATURE 1901 TO 2000 = 13.9°C (56.9°F)

There has been fluctuating average annual global temperature decreases & increases in degrees Fahrenheit since 20,000 years ago (red is less; underline is equal; and black is more than the 1901 - 2001 average):
Years Ago .. Degrees Fahrenheit
…… 20,000 ……….…… 56.0
……….. 150 ……………. 56.1
……….. 130 ……….…… 56.9
…………. 98 ……………. 56.0
…………. 68 ………….… 57.2
……….… 50 ………..….. 56.4
…………. 28 ……….…... 56.9
…………. 10 ………..….. 58.0
…………… 0 …….….…… 57.6
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Dec, 2008 01:57 pm
@ican711nm,
By the way, parados, do not forget that,
There has been a steady increase in CO2 ppm in the atmosphere over the last 20,000 years,
Years Ago .. ppm
….. 20,000 …… 180
….. 10,000 ……. 230
…….… 200 ……. 290
………... 50 ….... 319
……….…. 0 ….... 386

maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Dec, 2008 02:30 pm
@ican711nm,
Ok, I'm going to propose something crazy here...but is it possible that the the variations you're seeing ican are due to the sun AND CO2?

For example.

Years Ago ..... ppm ..... sun output ..... temp
20,000 ..... 180 ..... 0.31 ..... 56
200 ..... 290 ..... 0.19 ..... 56.1
50 ..... 319 ..... 0.18 ..... 56.4
0 ..... 386 ..... 0.15 ..... 57.6

I'm not saying that I've solved the GW question. I'm just wondering if maybe the higher levels of CO2 are offsetting a reduction in energy from the sun?
 

Related Topics

 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.21 seconds on 11/24/2024 at 12:00:14