Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

And while use of energy, new technology that changes how we use energy, and sources and supply of energy are all pertinent to this topic, I think it is appropriate to include periodic references to the specific issue of evidence of global warming too.

Today I ran across this:

Quote:

Arctic ice refuses to melt as ordered
There's something rotten north of Denmark
By Steven Goddard
Friday 15th August 2008

Just a few weeks ago, predictions of Arctic ice collapse were buzzing all over the internet. Some scientists were predicting that the "North Pole may be ice-free for first time this summer". Others predicted that the entire "polar ice cap would disappear this summer".

The Arctic melt season is nearly done for this year. The sun is now very low above the horizon and will set for the winter at the North Pole in five weeks. And none of these dire predictions have come to pass. Yet there is, however, something odd going on with the ice data.

The National Snow and Ice Data Center (NSIDC) in Boulder, Colorado released an alarming graph on August 11, showing that Arctic ice was rapidly disappearing, back towards last year's record minimum. Their data shows Arctic sea ice extent only 10 per cent greater than this date in 2007

The problem is that this graph does not appear to be correct. Other data sources show Arctic ice having made a nice recovery this summer. NASA Marshall Space Flight Center data shows 2008 ice nearly identical to 2002, 2005 and 2006. Maps of Arctic ice extent are readily available from several sources, including the University of Illinois, which keeps a daily archive for the last 30 years. A comparison of these maps (derived from NSIDC data) below shows that Arctic ice extent was 30 per cent greater on August 11, 2008 than it was on the August 12, 2007. (2008 is a leap year, so the dates are offset by one.)

MORE HERE: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/08/15/goddard_arctic_ice_mystery/

1 Reply

@Foxfyre,

Its been snowing in the Colorado high country, Foxfyre, in August. Above about 10 or 11,000 feet.

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@okie,

Yes I saw on another thread this morning - CJ's I think--that other places are getting record snows too. So far Albuquerque has had a pretty normal summer, even tilted toward the mild side. When we first moved here in the mid 1980's, 100 degree days in the summer were fairly common. We haven't had any of those in several years now. It makes it hard to FEEL like there is global warming.

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@Foxfyre,

But Foxfyre, it is alleged that Mars continues to warm. We've got to stop humans looking at Mars through telescopes, and sending satellites to Mars.

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@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorm wrote:

If the Dems proposed a compromise plan, which allowed some drilling but sank more money into aggressively pursuing those renewable resources, would you be in favor of it? For your party has generally signalled that it would not be.

And this is the funny thing about compromise; I don't support offshore drilling and I don't think we should be expanding it. But I am willing to compromise on this issue. It doesn't mean that my opinion is changed. It just means that I realize my opinion is not the only one.

What good would "sinking more government money" into "aggressively pursuing renewable sources" entail? Are you advocating more government spending on basic research, or on the actual construction and operation of renewable power generators? Do you believe this government spending will add to or detract from the economic incentives for private investors to develop cost effective renewable generators themselves? I can think of many good reasons to believe this kind of government intervention might do more harm than good - merely creating another permanent drain on the public treasury and an attendant political lobby somewhat like that of the agricultural industry, to keep it going forever, notwithstanding the economic harm it is doing.

Compromise is in principle a good thing. However a compromise that involves doing something that is actually stupid and harmful to the very goals for which it was created, benefits no one.

Boone Pickens says he can create enough electrical energy, using wind turbines in the central plains, to replace 20% of our electrical power generation. He adds that he doesn't want any government money to do it, but unfortunately, he is not clear on just why he is doing all the advertising and just what "help" he wants from the public.

Drilling for petroleum in the offshore areas of both coasts and in the Arctic will most certainly benefit our economy by reducing our trade imbalance on a dollar for dollar basis. Moreover, given the well-known fact that markets adapt now to anticipated new sources of supply, the fact of our development will in fact have some very prompt effects on the international petroleum market. The likely adverse environmental effects are minimal as is being demonstrated every day in offshore drilling operations in the North Sea, ou our Gulf Coast and in West Africa and South America.

It is very likely that this is a loser issue for the Democrat party - the public is desidedly for drilling; Pelosi & Reid are in full retreat and there is no political need for compromise at all.

1 Reply

Georgeob1 writes

Quote:

Boone Pickens says he can create enough electrical energy, using wind turbines in the central plains, to replace 20% of our electrical power generation. He adds that he doesn't want any government money to do it, but unfortunately, he is not clear on just why he is doing all the advertising and just what "help" he wants from the public.

Some pages back, I posted an article on T Boone and his forays into investments in West Texas wind turbines. This included using his personal cadillac size and quality Gulfstream to transport potential investors to his West Texas ventures. His ambitious private advertising campaign--this has to be costing him millions--coupled with these obvious enticements to investors underscores his intentions to make billions for T Boone Pickens.

He appeals to the emotional heartstrings of folks with his advertising, but he freely admits that he isn't 'going green'. Theres lots of money to be made in these high profile and ambitious wind energy schemes. The help he wants from the public is for people to buy into the ventures or at least help keep naysayers at bay.

Don't think that I am criticizing him in any way. I just prefer to keep it real when these things are analyzed. He's a businessman through and through and a quite inventive and successful one at that. He is my poster boy for how, given sufficient incentive such as a profit motive, private enterprise gets it done when the government will almost always come up way short.

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@georgeob1,

You're going to have to let them fantasise George.

There's seems no way of stopping them.

The Oval Office must be buzzing with all this expert advice coming in.

Wouldn't there be a panic if the birth rate plunged?

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@Foxfyre,

I agree that T. Boone Pickens is interested, above all, in the welfare of T. Boone Pickens. I'm curious about just what motivates his advertising campaign - clearly he wants something from the public, but what isn't clear. I fear it is government money. Another good reason to resist government subsidies and intervention. Self interested crooks and exploiters are far better motivated and usually much smarter than even right-thinking "progressive" government reformers of mankind.

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@georgeob1,

I think what he wants from the public is a) interest and approval to put wind power on the front burner so that it is more attractive to investors, and b) private investors that will boost Pickens' fortunes. I haven't picked up that he is after government money, though I'm sure he wouldn't turn down any tax credits or subsidies if the government offered.

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@Foxfyre,

It is my opinion that Pickens is first a "promoter," and secondly an oilman or an energy company professional. There is a difference. I am not a Pickens admirer.

Also, something to keep an eye on, Pelosi is possibly an investor in Pickens scheme.

http://www.dcexaminer.com/opinion/Editorial_Pelosi_and_Pickens_investment_partners.html

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@okie,

I think Pickens is simply a capitalist entrepreneur out to make a buck. If he is able to attract capital for investment in wind turbine power generators; and, by selecting both the right technology and optimal locations for its use, able to make a go of it under the normal economic conditions, then I am all for him.

If Nancy Pelosi wishes to invest her funds in his venture, that too is her right. Moreover, in this she can be said to be putting her money where her mouth is -- nothing at all wrong with that.

If, however, Pickens seeks government subsidies for the venture, and Pelosi ends up supporting either government subsidies for this and related ventures or simply mandates for the use of their products, then what we will have is a classical case of insider politics in which the public good is sacrificed for personal gain.

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@Foxfyre,

Foxy-

Is "put wind power on the front burner" a witticism or a solecism?

1 Reply

@spendius,

spendius wrote:

Foxy-

Is "put wind power on the front burner" a witticism or a solecism?

It's an American southern-ism. Smile

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@georgeob1,

georgeob1 wrote:

I think Pickens is simply a capitalist entrepreneur out to make a buck. If he is able to attract capital for investment in wind turbine power generators; and, by selecting both the right technology and optimal locations for its use, able to make a go of it under the normal economic conditions, then I am all for him.

If Nancy Pelosi wishes to invest her funds in his venture, that too is her right. Moreover, in this she can be said to be putting her money where her mouth is -- nothing at all wrong with that.

If, however, Pickens seeks government subsidies for the venture, and Pelosi ends up supporting either government subsidies for this and related ventures or simply mandates for the use of their products, then what we will have is a classical case of insider politics in which the public good is sacrificed for personal gain.

That (the highlighted phrase) is the crux of it in a lot of this isn't it? A T Boone Pickens is not going to invest heavily in wind power and spend major bucks promoting it to boost his investments unless there is money to be made. There is nothing dishonorable about that, however, unless he misrepresents the product.

But how much of all this other stuff--hybrids, solar, off-limit to drilling, and a plethora of scientific AGW studies, projects, reports, and conclusions--is also driven by a profit motive? And who do we have in government benefitting from that profit motive whether to boost their poll numbers, generate campaign contributions, or punch up their own investments or prospects?

I think we can learn a whole lot about the validity of a lot of things by following the money.

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@Foxfyre,

Quote:

I think we can learn a whole lot about the validity of a lot of things by following the money.

Only a whole lot?

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@Foxfyre,

Quote:

That (the highlighted phrase) is the crux of it in a lot of this isn't it? A T Boone Pickens is not going to invest heavily in wind power and spend major bucks promoting it to boost his investments unless there is money to be made. There is nothing dishonorable about that, however, unless he misrepresents the product.

But how much of all this other stuff--hybrids, solar, off-limit to drilling, and a plethora of scientific AGW studies, projects, reports, and conclusions--is also driven by a profit motive? And who do we have in government benefitting from that profit motive whether to boost their poll numbers, generate campaign contributions, or punch up their own investments or prospects?

I think we can learn a whole lot about the validity of a lot of things by following the money.

Funny...! That's exactly the point people have been making about the oil companies, isn't it?

Look at the lobbyists of Big Oil, people said. Look at how they finance politicians that say that we need more drilling, people said. Look at how they finance think tanks that say we need more oil for the benefit of the economy, people said.

Now the shoe is on the other foot: one of those greedy bastards has decided that there's a lot of money to be made in renewables. He's investing heavily into it. He's trying to back organisations and politicians who lobby for it. He markets it to a specific target group.

It's exactly the same situation.

And in the end, the people who said that alternative means of producing electricity and renewable energy sources would catch on once they become profitable, regardless of the political climate or desirability or which party wins the elections or has a majority in the house or whatnot were right on the money.

<nods to georgeob1>

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At least the oil companies are up front and honest that they are in business to make money off drilling for, refining, and selling oil. We know what their motives are and there's nothing wrong with them. Any industry that is controlled by Congress and state governments as to how and where they can do business must have lobbyists as a business necessity.

1 Reply

@Foxfyre,

And Boone Pickens has not said he's in it for the money? Wasn't it you who quoted an article where he explicitly stated that?

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@old europe,

No. I have explicitly said that he is in it for the money and he freely admits that. That's why I have no problem with T Boone Pickens at least so far as his newest venture goes so long as he doesn't misrepresent the product to the investors and/or buyers.

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@Foxfyre,

There you go. That's what I mean.

So if you say that Big Oil is completely up front about being in it for the money, and we now see that big time investors into renewables are in it for the money... what's your quibble with the trend towards renewables?

1 Reply

Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

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