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Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

 
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2008 08:54 am
High Seas wrote:
parados wrote:
.........I am curious how you propose to get oil from ANWR to the lower 48 without shipping over water.
.


Parados - Canada is not an ocean, as you appear to believe.


My guess is that Canada probably won't be too cool with us running a huge oil pipe through their land.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2008 09:00 am
Not so, Cycl: the pipeline grid is common to us and Canada. Recently the valves of pipelines sending oil north to them got reversed (George OB would know more about this) to let Canadians send oil from Alberta to us.
0 Replies
 
username
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2008 10:40 am
From WikiAnswers.com:

Quote:
Q:Where does the oil from the Alaskan pipeline go to once it leaves Valdez?
In: History Politics and Society [Edit]


All of the oil that is pumped from the oil fields in Alaska is sold to Japan.



So it's either because shipping it to Japan is cheaper than pipelining it here, which is likely the case. Or because Japan is willing to pay more. In either case, drill in ANWR, imperil wildlife, increase the risk of major oil spills at sea (as well as along the pipeline across Alaska), and end up lowering the price of gas a penny or so per liter in Tokyo. Maybe. And not do a damn thing for domestic supply. Great plan, guys.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2008 11:13 am
High Seas wrote:
parados wrote:
.........I am curious how you propose to get oil from ANWR to the lower 48 without shipping over water.
.


Parados - Canada is not an ocean, as you appear to believe.

No, Canada isn't an ocean. But there also isn't a pipeline from ANWR through Canada. There is a pipeline to the southern coast of Alaska from the Northern coast.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Alaska_Pipeline_System
It even has a nice pretty picture for those that need it.

Yes, there is a proposal to build a pipeline across Canada to pump natural Gas from Alaska There is no proposed pipeline that I know of to pump crude from ANWR through Canada. Without a proposal even on the drawing board to build such a pipeline I am curious how you get crude from ANWR to the lower 48. Trucking it would be pretty inefficient.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2008 11:17 am
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2008 11:51 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:
High Seas wrote:
parados wrote:
.........I am curious how you propose to get oil from ANWR to the lower 48 without shipping over water.
.


Parados - Canada is not an ocean, as you appear to believe.


My guess is that Canada probably won't be too cool with us running a huge oil pipe through their land.

Cycloptichorn


Not so. Canada is currently building additional pipeline infrastructure to support the rapidly growing output of its tar sands deposits in Alberta for delivery of the extracted petroleum to the U.S. and eastern provinces. (Canada BTW has the highest greenhouse gas emissions per capita in the world. It signed the idiotic Kyoto protocol in an act of international political correctitude, but has done virtually nothing to reduce its GHG emissions since then. I'm not knocking Canada - except for the hypocritical signing of an ill-conceived treaty, they have generally pursued intelligent and reasonable energy policies.)

Canada is also a net importer in its trade with the rest of the world - except for a huge favorable balance in its trade with the U.S., which more than pays for the net deficit with other countries -- despite all its whining about restrictions on U.S. lumber imports. Canada values the export revenues to the U.S. and would likely welcome the pipeline for that reason.

The existing pipeline from the Alaska North Slope could readily be modified to serve ANWER oil fields. A good deal of upgrade and refurbishment of the existing pipeline would be required to extend its useful life. However, there is no physical or economic impediment to the accomplishment of that rather ordinary task. No big deal.
0 Replies
 
username
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2008 12:07 pm
To repeat, pipeline or no, the oil wil go overseas, not here.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2008 04:01 pm
username wrote:
To repeat, pipeline or no, the oil wil go overseas, not here.

Malarkey!
The ANWR oil will be purchased by whomever chooses to buy it or buy part of it.
0 Replies
 
username
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2008 04:36 pm
T. Boone Pickens may be a sh#t in general, but he does know oil, and as he keeps saying, we can't drill ourselves out of the energy crunch--we just don't have enough oil or enough reserves.

In line with that, from the Asia Times:



End of the petroleum age
By Michael Klare

At the hastily convened global oil summit in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, on June 28, top officials of producing and consuming nations from around the world attempted to find a combination of solutions that would somehow extricate us from the current crisis over sky-high energy prices. These proposals ranged from increased output by major producers such as Saudi Arabia and Kuwait to restrictions on the activities of international oil speculators.

All were based on the premise that the crisis can be resolved through the right mix of actions, thus restoring an environment of cheap and abundant oil, a premise that is fundamentally flawed. More and more, the evidence suggests that this is not just a



temporary crisis. It is the beginning of the end of the petroleum age.

How do we know that the petroleum age is drawing to a close? Two key indicators tell us that this is so. First, many of the giant fields that have satisfied our massive thirst over so many years are experiencing diminished output. Second, although the major oil producers are spending more money each year to discover new reserves, they are finding less and less oil. Either of these factors by itself is cause for significant worry; the combination is deadly.

Dangerous reliance
Few people understand how reliant we have become on a relatively small number of vary large fields for the lion's share of our daily petroleum intake. Though the world possesses tens of thousands of operating fields, a mere 116 of them - each producing more than 100,000 barrels per day - together account for nearly one-half of total global output. Of these, all but a handful were discovered more than a quarter of a century ago, and most are showing signs of diminished capacity.

Indeed, some of the world's largest fields - including Ghawar in Saudi Arabia, Burgan in Kuwait, Cantarell in Mexico and Samotlor in Russia - appear to be now in decline or about to become so. The decline of these giant fields matters greatly. Compensating for their lost output will take increased yield at thousands of smaller fields, and there is no evidence that this is even remotely possible.

Signs of decline at the major fields began accumulating this spring when Mexico announced that Cantarell's output had fallen by 416,000 barrels per day, a 25% reduction over its 2007 output. Though state-owned Pemex was able to boost output at a number of other fields, the decline at Cantarell was so significant that Mexico reported a 9% drop in net oil output for the first quarter of 2008 as against 2007. This is an ominous sign from a country that a year ago was America's second leading supplier of crude petroleum. A similar sign of alarm came this spring from Russia, until recently the rising star of the oil world. Since last October, output there has fallen about 2%, with no hint of a recovery in sight.

The biggest mystery is the status of Ghawar. This Saudi Arabian field, the world's biggest by far, accounts for about 7% of global supply. Saudi Arabian officials insist the field is in good shape and fully capable of sustaining daily output of nearly 5 million barrels for years to come. But many skeptical analysts, including noted Houston investor Matthew Simmons, believe that Ghawar is on its last legs and will soon go into decline. In his 2005 book Twilight in the Desert, Simmons cited technical papers to show that field pressure at Ghawar was being artificially maintained through the heavy use of water injection - a technique that cannot be sustained indefinitely and is usually followed by a rapid plunge in output.

Dire prognosis
To better gauge the status of the world's largest fields, the International Energy Agency (IEA), an arm of the Organization of Economic Cooperation and Development, is conducting a survey of the top 400 reservoirs. Although the survey is not due to be published until November, early drafts have been leaked in The Wall Street Journal - and the prognosis is not promising. "The world's premier energy monitor is preparing a sharp downward revision of its oil-supply forecast," the Journal reported in May, "a shift that reflects deepening pessimism over whether oil companies can keep abreast of booming demand."

The most troubling finding in the IEA report, according to those who have seen early drafts, is that the rates of depletion in existing fields like Cantarell, Ghawar and Burgan are far greater than previously thought. In other words, we are running out of known oil reserves at a greater rate than previously assumed. "This is a dangerous situation," said Fatih Birol, the IEA's chief economist, in an interview with the Journal.

We could live with the decline of these great reservoirs if we had some confidence that new reserves were being discovered all the time to replace all those now reaching the end of their productive life. But this is not the case. Despite a sharp increase in spending on exploration and development, the rate of new reserve discovery has been falling steadily for the past 30 years.

According to the US Army Corps of Engineers, the last decade in which new discoveries exceeded the rate of extraction from existing fields was the 1980s. Since then we have been consuming more oil than we have been finding, a pattern that can only result, eventually, in the complete exhaustion of the world's known petroleum reserves.

Only two giant fields have been discovered in the past 25 years. The first, Kashagan in Kazakhstan's sector of the Caspian Sea, has turned out to be an unmitigated disaster. With estimated reserves of 7-13 billion barrels of oil and natural gas liquids, Kashagan was originally expected to come on line in 2005 at a cost of $50 billion. As a result of environmental hazards, government intervention and disputes among members of the consortium established to operate the field, it is now scheduled to begin pumping oil in 2011 at the earliest at a minimum cost of $135 billion.

Recently, the Brazilian state firm Petrobras announced an equally large discovery in the deep waters of the Atlantic, some 240 kilometers off the coast of Rio de Janeiro. Although very promising, the Tupi field will take many years to develop and will require the use of more costly and advanced technology than any now in widespread use.

These new discoveries may add one or two million barrels of oil per day to existing output in 2015 and beyond, but by that point output from existing fields is likely to be considerably lower than it is today. Nobody can predict exactly where combined worldwide production will stand at that time. But more and more analysts are coming to the conclusion that the output of conventional (that is, liquid) petroleum will peak at about 95 million barrels per day in the 2010-2012 timeframe and then begin an irreversible decline. The addition of a few million added barrels from Kashagan or Tupi will not alter this trend.

There is, of course, much talk about other, "unconventional", sources of oil: untapped reserves in Alaskan wilderness areas and America's outer continental shelf, Canadian tar sands, Rocky Mountain shale rock.

True, these various prospects, if brought to fruition and putting aside the massive costs and environmental risks involved, could add anywhere from 750,000 barrels a day (in the case of Alaskan oil) to a few million barrels (in the case of the others) to global energy supplies in the years ahead. But, when all is said and done, none of this can stop the inevitable closing of the petroleum age.

End of an era
Consider: In 2030, according to the US Department of Energy, world "liquids" demand is expected to reach 117.6 million barrels per day. Of this amount, unconventional fuels - synthetic liquids derived from tar sands, shale rock and biofuels - may provide a total of 10.5 million barrels. That leaves 107.1 million to be supplied by conventional petroleum. But what if global oil output has fallen to 60-70% of that amount by 2030, as projected by many analysts? Under those circumstances, no amount of oil from Alaska or the outer continental shelf will be able to save this country (or the rest of the world) from a catastrophic energy crisis.
Some say that any palliative is worth the expense as we head toward certain disaster. This is not a logical response. Knowing that the age of petroleum is drawing to a close, it is far better to devote our talents and investment dollars on hastening the arrival of its successor, rather than prolonging the agony of oil's decline.

At this point, we cannot be absolutely certain of the dominant energy source of the post-petroleum era. Will it be the solar age or the biofuels age or the hydrogen age? We do know that it will revolve around some constellation of renewable, climate-friendly, domestically produced supplies. From now on, America's top priority in the energy field must be to explore all potential components of this new energy future and move swiftly to develop those with the greatest promise.



www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/JG03Dj04.html
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2008 05:40 pm
username wrote:
T. Boone Pickens may be a sh#t in general, but he does know oil, and as he keeps saying, we can't drill ourselves out of the energy crunch--we just don't have enough oil or enough reserves.

In line with that, from the Asia Times:

End of the petroleum age
By Michael Klare

...

More Malarkey!
Neither Pickens, Klare, or anyone else know what we can drill ourselves out of!

In line with that, when asked should we stop drilling for oil, Pickens said that that we must continue drilling for oil as long as there is oil to drill for, but we must recognize that we must also develop other major sources of energy at the same time..
0 Replies
 
username
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2008 07:00 pm
Yes, unfortunately, ican, they do. You, on the other hand, do not. And saying "Malarkey" isn't going to change that. We simply do not have enough available oil, and particularly not enough reserves or potential reserves, to exert more than a marginal (in the range of a dollar or two a barrel) effect on world prices. We certainly don't have enough, even if we sink a dozen wells in your front yard, which I think we should do immediately, to win us energy independence, or anything even remotely resembling it. That, unfortunately, is the truth.
0 Replies
 
miniTAX
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Jul, 2008 07:33 am
username wrote:
T. Boone Pickens may be a sh#t in general, but he does know oil
0 Replies
 
miniTAX
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Jul, 2008 07:40 am
Back to topic, good news from the IPCC: the Earth is cooling.

As proof of that, the IPCC has decided to organize their next "closed meeting" (to decide when to organize the next next meeting) in an horribly wet and hot place : Honolulu, Hawaï. Warmists are all hearts with such sacrifice.

The IPCC chose one of remotest place on Earth to increase carbon miles to help warm the planet (the carbon spewed by Al Gore's private jet is not enough, models said).
The bill will be sent to world taxpayers 1 week after the meeting.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Jul, 2008 10:26 am
username wrote:
Yes, unfortunately, ican, they do. You, on the other hand, do not. And saying "Malarkey" isn't going to change that. We simply do not have enough available oil, and particularly not enough reserves or potential reserves, to exert more than a marginal (in the range of a dollar or two a barrel) effect on world prices. We certainly don't have enough, even if we sink a dozen wells in your front yard, which I think we should do immediately, to win us energy independence, or anything even remotely resembling it. That, unfortunately, is the truth.

What's the reason for your bias against my backyard? Shocked

The world's thus far untapped oil reserves are immense. Let's drill them as we need them, while we attempt to develop an adequate supply of alternate energy sources. Even though you refuse to admit that's the best course, almost three-quarters of the American public know it's the best course, and are now demanding it.

Drill in ANWR!
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Jul, 2008 10:29 am
THE DISSENTS OF THE SCIENTIFIC DISSENTERS

0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Jul, 2008 02:12 pm
username wrote:
T. Boone Pickens may be a sh#t in
In line with that, from the Asia Times:



End of the petroleum age
By

www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/JG03Dj04.html


I don't know Mr Pickens, and care nothing for either you or the publications you choose to quote (do you have the least CLUE who or what they ARE??? I doubt it). If you think that quoting from hustler online rags of shady funding antecedents is "scientific" then I know for a fact you NEVER took a SINGLE math or science class during the entire duration of your miserable existence.

Which duration, I trust, or rather hope, is soon to be asymptotically approaching zero Smile
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Jul, 2008 02:19 pm
Easy-chair intellectuals cannot easy the environmental disaster.

Each one
catch one and teach to make this bitter world a better one.
I for one do it.
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Jul, 2008 02:22 pm
Ramafuchs wrote:
..............
catch one and teach to make this bitter world a better one.
I for one do it.


Oooooohh..... a suicide threat from Rama?! Can we vote on how much any of us worry about it? Starting first, I vote Level of Concern Identically Equals 00.00.
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Jul, 2008 05:52 pm
ican wrote :

Quote:
Quote:
username wrote:
To repeat, pipeline or no, the oil wil go overseas, not here.


Malarkey!
The ANWR oil will be purchased by whomever chooses to buy it or buy part of it.



i agree :
" The ANWR oil will be purchased by whomever chooses to buy it or buy part of it. "

the question might be asked : who has the money ?
just like the chinese have invested in CANADA'S OILSANDS for at least two years already , they may also be interested in buying oil from ANWAR (or other sources) .
from what i understand , the oil companies will usually sell to the highest bidder in the market .

this article from the seattle times dates back to 2005 . i'm not up-to-date on current U.S. legislation , but might it be possible :
ANWAR OIL TO CHINA ?
hbg
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Jul, 2008 09:51 pm
hamburger, if we sell the oil, then buy it from somewhere else, it becomes essentially a trade, but the pertinent thing that has happened is that we benefit by producing our own energy, whether we use it directly, or use the energy that we receive as part of the exchange. Thats the way the world works. Far better we produce it than produce nothing, so we have all the cash going out and none coming in.

To use an analogy, if a farmer does not sell some of his products, he has no money to buy what he cannot totally produce himself. The more he buys and the less he produces, will make him poorer, to the point that he will eventually go completely broke.

It doesn't really matter whether we use that particular crude that we produce, or whether we trade that crude for money to buy other crude. It may depend upon location of production, transportation considerations, and the type of oil that is produced relative to the appropriate refining facilities for that particular oil. In other words, we operate within a world economy, a world market, not in a closed system, and there are many factors that are escaping your simple mind on this subject.
0 Replies
 
 

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