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Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

 
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Apr, 2008 08:48 pm
hamburger wrote:
the Ontario College of Family Physicians is concerned that climate change is beginning to effect the health of the population even in developed countries .


Laughing Laughing Laughing

hamburger, did you read the link I posted about people in South America freezing to death? What do you want more people to do, freeze to death or die of heat stroke? Make up your mind.

http://intellicast.com/Community/Content.aspx?a=124
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ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Apr, 2008 08:58 pm
... and maybe we'll have to face a re-emergence of mammoths or tyrannosaurs or even DDT Shocked

Mad Quick we better outlaw the consumption of all foods containing carbon.
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username
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Apr, 2008 09:47 pm
From okie's cite:

"Of course, not all areas got the snows, western Europe had little or no snow and the eastern United States south of central New York and New England also were left out. The winter was virtually snowless in New York City making up for the 4 years in a row earlier this decade when they experienced 40 inches or more for the first time ever.

The steadiness of the storm tracks and trough and ridge positions is characteristic of stronger La Ninas and solar minimum years, both the case this year."


Is the recurrence of "la Nina" beginning to sink in yet, okie? As we keep telling you, it's weather, not climate. There's a difference.
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hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Apr, 2008 09:31 am
okie wrote :

Quote:
hamburger, did you read the link I posted about people in South America freezing to death? What do you want more people to do, freeze to death or die of heat stroke? Make up your mind.


i wonder if okie thinks that we have two choices only : either die from heatstroke or freeze to death - is there perhaps something in between the two extremes ?
btw you may not have paid much attention to the remarks about ticks and nile virus .
hbg
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Apr, 2008 09:39 am
I think Okie, like most of us leaning to the skeptic side on all this global warming stuff, is exaggerating for humorous effect. But even if he was serious, he would not be any more extreme than those who think we should be taking extreme measures to combat global warming whether or not it turns out that harmful AGW is an indisputable fact.
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okie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Apr, 2008 01:23 pm
hamburger wrote:
btw you may not have paid much attention to the remarks about ticks and nile virus .
hbg

To be honest, no I did not. I have read so many stories about global warming causing virtually anything and everything, that I dismiss them as just more ado about not much, nothing more. If you need a more complete list to worry about, hamburger, such as about 600 things, read the following:

http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=22382

'Agricultural land increase, Africa devastated, African aid threatened, Africa hit hardest air pressure changes, Alaska reshaped, allergies increase, Alps melting, Amazon a desert, American dream end, amphibians breeding earlier (or not), ancient forests dramatically changed, animals head for the hills, Antarctic grass flourishes, , algal blooms, archaeological sites threatened, Arctic bogs melt, Arctic in bloom, Arctic lakes disappear, asthma, Atlantic less salty, Atlantic more salty, atmospheric defiance, atmospheric circulation modified, attack of the killer jellyfish, avalanches reduced, avalanches increased, bananas destroyed, bananas grow, beetle infestation, bet for $10,000, better beer, big melt faster, billion dollar research projects, billions of deaths, bird distributions change, bird visitors drop, birds return early....."

Read the whole link and click on any one of the approximately 600 links, and you will find all the material to keep you worried for a long time, and interestingly, global warming can cause both an increase or a decrease in most anything. Figure that out.
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okie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Apr, 2008 01:33 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
I think Okie, like most of us leaning to the skeptic side on all this global warming stuff, is exaggerating for humorous effect. But even if he was serious, he would not be any more extreme than those who think we should be taking extreme measures to combat global warming whether or not it turns out that harmful AGW is an indisputable fact.

Correct Foxfyre, some of these people get so dead serious about some of the most bizarre aspects of this, I do find it humorous, and yes I am guilty of exaggeration. I made th comments because the article I cited mentioned people dying from the extreme cold in South America, and so what if the temperature was even colder, wouldn't more die? Actually, all of this is so ridiculous, as I would challenge anyone to point out a day since the dawn of time that humans were not suffering from either cold or heat somewhere around the globe. There is no such thing as normal weather. It is average, but weather changes hourly, daily, weekly, yearly, by the century, and always has, none of this is new.
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ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Apr, 2008 02:04 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
I think Okie, like most of us leaning to the skeptic side on all this global warming stuff, is exaggerating for humorous effect. But even if he was serious, he would not be any more extreme than those who think we should be taking extreme measures to combat global warming whether or not it turns out that harmful AGW is an indisputable fact.

Foxfyre, I think it self-evident to the thinking mind, rather than to the fearful mind, that the probable consequences of greatly reducing human energy production or greatly increasing its cost, are far more likely to be devastating to humans, than are the probable consequences of relatively small global temperature changes. Because this is so self-evident, the denial of this reality deserves unrelenting ridicule.
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hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Apr, 2008 02:46 pm
there are many articles and books taking more moderate approaches to the climate change/global warming question .

one of the books i am reading currently falls into the more moderate area i believe .
to me , as a layperson , it is also more understandable than a strictly scientific book .
the book is called "hot air" (see link) and tries - and succeeds imo - to make a layperson understand : where we are , how we most likely got here and what some of the options for the future are .

since the book is specifically directed towards canadian readers by giving many examples about our own "canadian" environment , it may mean very little to americans .

of course , we all have the option of doing absolutely nothing .
hbg

from the review :
Quote:



link :
HOT AIR
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Apr, 2008 03:16 pm
hamburger wrote:
there are many articles and books taking more moderate approaches to the climate change/global warming question .

one of the books i am reading currently falls into the more moderate area i believe .
to me , as a layperson , it is also more understandable than a strictly scientific book .
the book is called "hot air" (see link) and tries - and succeeds imo - to make a layperson understand : where we are , how we most likely got here and what some of the options for the future are .

since the book is specifically directed towards canadian readers by giving many examples about our own "canadian" environment , it may mean very little to americans .

of course , we all have the option of doing absolutely nothing .
hbg

from the review :
Quote:



link :
HOT AIR


Well the book may be excellent, Hamburger--I haven't seen a copy--and it may indeed take a more moderate approach to the issue than some. I'll take your word on that.

It seems, however, that Professor Jaccard is the closest thing to a scientist that we can identify among the three authors.

So as any suggestion of a link between energy producers and any AGW skeptic seems to be sufficient to disqualify any scientists, no matter how well credentialed, on this thread, it is only fair to consider whatever motives Professor Jaccard might bring to the debate.

Carbon tax flim-flam
Terence Corcoran, Financial Post
Published: Tuesday, February 26, 2008

Mark Jaccard's one-man crusade to hook Canada up to a monster new global warming policy nightmare popped up again yesterday. This time he emerged in Ottawa with David Suzuki at a news conference that offered Canadians an economic miracle: Big new carbon taxes, lower income taxes, reduced carbon emissions, more government revenue, and a growing economy.

The all-in-one package is in a report by Prof. Jaccard, of Simon Fraser University, for the David Suzuki Foundation. Titled Pricing Carbon: Saving Green, the report ran through some economic modelling exercises to see what might happen if Canada were to impose a tax on all carbon emissions of between $75 and $200 a tonne by 2020. Before any government gets to assessing the report -- which doesn't mention that a $200-a-tonne tax would raise the price of gasoline by about 50% to $1.60 a litre; nor does it do much to highlight the $45-billion in annual lost growth by 2020 -- we suggest a tracking device be attached to Mr. Jaccard to monitor his role in the rise of carbon tax on the Canadian agenda.

When B.C. Finance Minister Carole Taylor's budget last week announced a version of a carbon tax, Mr. Jaccard and his private research company, M.K. Jaccard and Associates, were the only authorities named. The B.C. plan, moreover, contained all the propaganda tricks Mr. Jaccard raised in the Suzuki version. The tax would raise billions, but voters should not worry because it would be "revenue neutral" and would be "recycled" back in tax cuts or direct payments. As a marketing ploy, the B.C. government said it would immediately send out $440-million in Carbon Tax Credit cheques to citizens, before the carbon tax was even imposed.

In his Suzuki report, Mr. Jaccard begins with a pithy epigraph: "The atmosphere can no longer be considered a carbon dump." Turns out Mr. Jaccard is quoting himself and his coauthors, including one Jeffrey Simpson, from their book Hot Air. While short and emphatic, the quote is also pure rhetoric unhindered by fact. The atmosphere will continue to used as a dump so long as humans are allowed to exist.

Then the Suzuki report says that "several recent studies" show that a price on carbon is the best way to cut carbon emissions. Of two studies cited, one is from Mr. Jaccard. Reference is later made to recent carbon-tax research by the National Round Table on the Environment -- research Mr. Jaccard had a hand in.

The progress of the carbon tax idea to yesterday, including the joint conference with Mr. Suzuki and the B.C. budget carbon tax gimmick, shows Mr. Jaccard has a way with policy makers, politicians and activists. So far he's made no headway with the Harper Tories or Finance Minister Jim Flaherty, whose budget today was clearly the focal point behind the timing of these events.

The Jaccard carbon tax studies are gigantic exercises in economic modelling. Using models Mr. Jaccard controls, the study asks what would happen to the economy 12 years from now under different levels of carbon taxation and methods of government disposal of the cash raised. If the tax were $100 a tonne, governments would raise $62.5-billion; at $200, the tax take is $100-billion a year -- three times what the government collected last year in GST. That would be bad for the economy, depending on how the government spent it. It would reduce carbon-based energy consumption, hurting growth. But if the government took that money and "recycled" it back into the economy in beneficial ways, the bad impact of the tax would be neutralized.
LINK
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username
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Apr, 2008 01:11 pm
Hee hee, watch out okie, ican, and fox, your constituency is leaving you. Nine major hunting and fishing groups ask legislation to counter global warming:

'"We know now that climate change has the very real potential to affect fish and wildlife resources and activities that hunters and angers hold dear ... and on a landscape level scale that is incomparable in modern times," warned Matt Hogan, executive director of the Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies.'

'Groups representing nine major hunting and fishing organizations planned to meet Thursday with the House committee chairman who hopes to write legislation to curtail greenhouse gases linked to global warming.'

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24048029/

There are gonna be a lot of very conflicted right-wingers when its membership drives the NRA to take a stand against global warming. And the time is gonna come.
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ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Apr, 2008 01:29 pm
http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=f80a6386-802a-23ad-40c8-3c63dc2d02cb
As of December 20, 2007, over 400 prominent scientists--not a minority--from more than two dozen countries voiced significant objections to major aspects of the alleged UN IPCC "consensus" on man-made global warming.

THE DISSENTS OF THE SCIENTIFIC DISSENTERS
Quote:

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.SenateReport#report

4. One of India's leading geologists, B.P. Radhakrishna, President of the Geological Society of India, expressed climate skepticism in 2007. "There is some evidence to show that our planet Earth is becoming warmer and that human action is probably partly responsible, especially in the matter of greenhouse gas emissions. What is in doubt, however, is whether the steps that are proposed to be taken to reduce carbon emission will really bring down the carbon dioxide level in the atmosphere and whether such attempts, even carried out on a global scale, will produce the desired effect," Radhakrishna wrote in an August 23, 2007 essay. "We appear to be overplaying this global warming issue as global warming is nothing new. It has happened in the past, not once but several times, giving rise to glacial-interglacial cycles. We appear to be now only in the middle of an interglacial cycle showing a trend toward warming as warming and cooling are global and have occurred on such a scale when humans had not appeared on the planet. If we read geology correctly, the earth we live on is not dead but is dynamic and is continuously changing. The causes of these changes are cosmogenic and nothing we are able to do is likely to halt or reverse such processes," he explained. "Warming of the climate, melting of glaciers, rise in sea levels and other marked changes in climate - these do not pose immediate threats and there is besides, no way of controlling such changes even if we want to. Exercises at mitigation of these likely disasters are, however, possible and mankind, in all likelihood, will gradually adjust itself to the changed conditions. This has happened before; men and animals have moved to greener pastures and adapted themselves to the changed situations," he added.
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H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Apr, 2008 01:34 pm
Haven't you all figured out that the globe warms and cools on it's own and that human
activity (other than regional overpopulation) has little to no effect on the planets temp Question
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okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Apr, 2008 01:39 pm
Some of us have, H2O_Man.
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miniTAX
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Apr, 2008 01:40 pm
username wrote:
Hee hee, watch out okie, ican, and fox, your constituency is leaving you. Nine major hunting and fishing groups ask legislation to counter global warming:
Ask legislation to counter global warming, wow !
They are asking a legislation which can't combat crime, drug or poverty to combat global warming ? Man, they are going nuts or what ?
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Apr, 2008 01:41 pm
H2O_MAN wrote:
Haven't you all figured out that the globe warms and cools on it's own and that human
activity (other than regional overpopulation) has little to no effect on the planets temp Question


Yes, of course. And all it takes to get a person healthy is to balance the humours. And the nightime sky demonstrates equally clearly that the universe spins happily around us. And when your child is doing poorly in school, then a good sound beating will turn him right around and have him bringing in the first class marks in no time at all.
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parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Apr, 2008 01:41 pm
Quote:
Exercises at mitigation of these likely disasters are, however, possible and mankind, in all likelihood, will gradually adjust itself to the changed conditions. This has happened before; men and animals have moved to greener pastures and adapted themselves to the changed situations," he added.


I can hardly wait until New York City "moves" to "greener pastures."
Rolling Eyes

This is a perfect example of how the deniers are trying to make it seem like we can "adjust" because we have simply moved before when humans were hunter/gatherers.
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miniTAX
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Apr, 2008 01:48 pm
parados wrote:
This is a perfect example of how the deniers are trying to make it seem like we can "adjust" because we have simply moved before when humans were hunter/gatherers.
Some have "moved" into the biofuel fiasco.
Now they move back, play the blame game and are scrambling to find yet another muddy field to move in. Hey, that's "climate science".
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parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Apr, 2008 01:52 pm
Changing technology to continue to live in the same place doesn't really compare to "moving to greener pastures" as hunter/gatherers can do.

But if you want to pretend that it is the same, then go ahead miniTax.

Biofuels really have little to do with "climate science." Climate science isn't the study of possible energy sources for human use.
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miniTAX
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Apr, 2008 02:05 pm
parados wrote:
Biofuels really have little to do with "climate science." Climate science isn't the study of possible energy sources for human use.
So what the hell does the IPCC do in promoting Kyoto and recommending biofuel as a mitigation solution ?
0 Replies
 
 

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