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Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

 
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Mar, 2008 07:32 pm
Quote:

http://www.oism.org/pproject/Slides/Presentation/Slide5.png
The 1975 to 2005 average solar irradiance increase in w/m^2, is 1.0 w/m^2 ...


Quote:

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/2007/ann/global.html
The 1901-2000 average combined land and ocean annual temperature is 13.9°C (56.9°F) ...


Quote:

ftp://ftp.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/data/anomalies/annual.land_and_ocean.90S.90N.df_1901-2000mean.dat
1975 thru 2005 Yearly Average Mean Measurements of Temperature Anomalies
1975 = -0.0319
…
2005 = +0.6046


Quote:

ftp://ftp.cmdl.noaa.gov/ccg/co2/trends/co2_mm_mlo.txt
The 1975 to 2005 CO2 ppm increase is,
Year … Month … Average
1975 …… 12 ……= 330.54
...
2005 …… 12 ….…= 380.06


Quote:

http://co2.cms.udel.edu/Increasing_Atmospheric_CO2.htm
Emissions of Carbon from Human Activities
Several human activities release CO2 into the atmosphere (called anthropogenic, human-origin, emissions). Fossil-fuel burning is the predominant anthropogenic source of CO2, but cement production and other activities also contribute (including the "land-use" activity of deforestation). Using a combination of modern and historic data, scientists estimate that humans have sent a total of 305 billion metric tons of carbon into the atmosphere since 1751; half of these emissions have occurred since the mid-1970s.
…
About half of the recent emissions are not accumulating in the atmosphere, but are going into the ocean and, to a lesser extent, into soils. These are considered "sinks" in the global carbon budget because they take up atmospheric CO2.


Quote:

http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/nowarm.htm
He [Essenhigh] cites a 1995 report from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), a panel formed by the World Meteorological Organization and the United Nations Environment Programme in 1988 to assess the risk of human-induced climate change. In the report, the IPCC wrote that some 90 billion tons of carbon as carbon dioxide annually circulate between the earth's ocean and the atmosphere, and another 60 billion tons exchange between the vegetation and the atmosphere.

Compared to man-made sources' emission of about 5 to 6 billion tons per year, the natural sources would then account for more than 95 percent of all atmospheric carbon dioxide ...
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Mar, 2008 07:13 pm
Quote:

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=f80a6386-802a-23ad-40c8-3c63dc2d02cb
Over 400 prominent scientists from more than two dozen countries recently voiced significant objections to major aspects of the so-called "consensus" on man-made global warming.


http://www.oism.org/pproject/Slides/Presentation/Slide5.png
Solar Irradiance w/m^2 increase, 1975 to 2005 = 0.07297%

ftp://ftp.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/data/anomalies/annual.land_and_ocean.90S.90N.df_1901-2000mean.dat
Average Global Temperature Increase, 1975 to 2005 = 0.2218%

Global Temperature/Solar Irradiance = 0.2218%/0.07297% = 3.04

ftp://ftp.cmdl.noaa.gov/ccg/co2/trends/co2_mm_mlo.txt
Average CO2 Parts per Million Atmospheric Increase, 1975 to 2005 = 14.98%

http://co2.cms.udel.edu/Increasing_Atmospheric_CO2.htm
http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/nowarm.htm
Average CO2 Billions of Metric Tons Atmospheric Increase, 1975 to 2005 = 100%

What is the scientifically derived equation for computing the amount of average global temperature caused by a specified amount of sun irradiance, for a given amount of CO2 ppm or CO2 bmt in the atmosphere?
0 Replies
 
username
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Mar, 2008 11:42 pm
Here is the basic problem: TSI has not increased. It has in fact decreased since 1975. Since it is usually computed solar minimum to solar minimum, 2007-08 was the end of the third cycle, i.e. fourth minimum, since 1975. 1975 was before accurate satellitesensor measurement of TSI, but even using the back-projected figure you use for 1975, ican (and compensating for the fact that Willie Soon, whose figures you use seems to have attempted to correlate everything with the NIMBUS-7 satellite readings, which went dark in 1994 and is the only set of readings that ever were around 1372 W/m^2), TSI has gone down. And it certainly has gone down over the three satellite-measured minima.

Relying on an increase in TSI to explain warming doesn't work, because it isn't increasing.

I suggest you look up "climate sensitivity". That's what you're trying for. There is a most probable value of about 3 degrees K (or C) for a doubling of atmospheric CO2, with a 2 sigma range from about 1.5 to 4.5, if I remember correctly, according to the IPCC. Some recent evidence suggests it's toward the higher end. Whatever value in the range you plug in, the effects will be sharp.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Mar, 2008 05:37 am
Some more junk-science by pro-AGW religionists, here by the NASA:

- Following a record summer low, Arctic ice has rebounded rapidly this winter but still covers less of the Arctic Ocean than in previous decades. Plus, said NASA scientists, the ice is younger and thinner.

- Arctic sea ice reached a record low this past summer, with 23 percent less sea ice cover than the previous record low and 39 percent less than the average amount that has previously spanned the Arctic Ocean in the summer months.

NASA: Researchers Say Arctic Sea Ice Still at Risk Despite Cold Winter
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Mar, 2008 09:44 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
NASA: Researchers Say Arctic Sea Ice Still at Risk Despite Cold Winter[/URL]


Stay worried, people, we may still die of heat stroke even though it is getting colder. We certainly do not want anyone to think the crisis is still not a crisis. If it gets cold enough, we can then change the crisis into a situation where the next ice age will kill everyone.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2008 10:00 pm
Interesting discussion of economic impacts:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,339831,00.html
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Mar, 2008 11:47 am
username wrote:
Here is the basic problem: TSI has not increased. It has in fact decreased since 1975. Since it is usually computed solar minimum to solar minimum, 2007-08 was the end of the third cycle, i.e. fourth minimum, since 1975. 1975 was before accurate satellitesensor measurement of TSI, but even using the back-projected figure you use for 1975, ican (and compensating for the fact that Willie Soon, whose figures you use seems to have attempted to correlate everything with the NIMBUS-7 satellite readings, which went dark in 1994 and is the only set of readings that ever were around 1372 W/m^2), TSI has gone down. And it certainly has gone down over the three satellite-measured minima.

Relying on an increase in TSI to explain warming doesn't work, because it isn't increasing.

I suggest you look up "climate sensitivity". That's what you're trying for. There is a most probable value of about 3 degrees K (or C) for a doubling of atmospheric CO2, with a 2 sigma range from about 1.5 to 4.5, if I remember correctly, according to the IPCC. Some recent evidence suggests it's toward the higher end. Whatever value in the range you plug in, the effects will be sharp.



The following quote convinces me IPCC management is fraudulent.
Quote:

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=f80a6386-802a-23ad-40c8-3c63dc2d02cb
Over 400 prominent scientists from more than two dozen countries recently voiced significant objections to major aspects of the so-called "consensus" on man-made global warming.


The following two items convince me that your analysis is NOT correct.

1. This image was obtained from
http://www.oism.org/pproject/Slides/Presentation/Slide5.png
http://www.oism.org/pproject/Slides/Presentation/Slide5.png
US Surface Temperature Trends versus Solar Activity.


2. Technical Summary, page 30, TS.2.4 Radiative Forcing Due to Solar Activity and Volcanic Eruptions, 2nd paragraph.
http://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/assessment-report/ar4/wg1/ar4-wg1-ts.pdf

Even IPCC is willing to admit to some,
Quote:
direct radiative forcing due to changes in the solar output.
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Mar, 2008 12:04 pm
Back to the topic of dangers to polar bears covered several pages ago to the effect that pollution is a much greater threat to them than melting of polar ice; we know the icecaps melted completely 100,000 years ago, and since the bears exist as a distinct-DNA species for 200,000 years they obviously made it through that once before:

http://video.nationalgeographic.com/video/player/news/culture-places-news/norway-bear-apvin.html

It's heartbreaking - not only for the bears, but also for wolves, huskies, other land and sea creatures getting sick and dying because of the heavy metals we dump into the oceans.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Mar, 2008 12:07 pm
High Seas wrote:
Back to the topic of dangers to polar bears covered several pages ago to the effect that pollution is a much greater threat to them than melting of polar ice; we know the icecaps melted completely 100,000 years ago, and since the bears exist as a distinct-DNA species for 200,000 years they obviously made it through that once before:

http://video.nationalgeographic.com/video/player/news/culture-places-news/norway-bear-apvin.html

It's heartbreaking - not only for the bears, but also for wolves, huskies, other land and sea creatures getting sick and dying because of the heavy metals we dump into the oceans.


Again THAT is where the scientific community should be focusing its attention. There are very real practices that have absolutely verifiable negative, even devastating affect, on living things on Earth. If the scientific community would turn its efforts to addressing that, I would be at the front of the pack leading the charge. I can't say for sure, but I suspect that they won't because a) too many of them represent countries guilty of it and/or b) there isn't any money in it at this time.
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Mar, 2008 12:11 pm
Foxfyre - the latter is true, unfortunately: there's no money in it right now.

Known as "the tragedy of the commons" in economic parlance.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Mar, 2008 10:13 am
Another opinion we won't see on the front page of the newspapers or leading the evening news (emphasis mine):

Climate facts to warm to
Christopher Pearson
March 22, 2008

Last Monday - on ABC Radio National, of all places - there was a tipping point of a different kind in the debate on climate change. It was a remarkable interview involving the co-host of Counterpoint, Michael Duffy and Jennifer Marohasy, a biologist and senior fellow of Melbourne-based think tank the Institute of Public Affairs. Anyone in public life who takes a position on the greenhouse gas hypothesis will ignore it at their peril.

Duffy asked Marohasy: "Is the Earth still warming?"

She replied: "No, actually, there has been cooling, if you take 1998 as your point of reference. If you take 2002 as your point of reference, then temperatures have plateaued. This is certainly not what you'd expect if carbon dioxide is driving temperature because carbon dioxide levels have been increasing but temperatures have actually been coming down over the last 10 years."

Duffy: "Is this a matter of any controversy?"

Marohasy: "Actually, no. The head of the IPCC (Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change) has actually acknowledged it. He talks about the apparent plateau in temperatures so far this century. So he recognises that in this century, over the past eight years, temperatures have plateaued ... This is not what you'd expect, as I said, because if carbon dioxide is driving temperature then you'd expect that, given carbon dioxide levels have been continuing to increase, temperatures should be going up ... So (it's) very unexpected, not something that's being discussed. It should be being discussed, though, because it's very significant."

Duffy: "It's not only that it's not discussed. We never hear it, do we? Whenever there's any sort of weather event that can be linked into the global warming orthodoxy, it's put on the front page. But a fact like that, which is that global warming stopped a decade ago, is virtually never reported, which is extraordinary."

Duffy then turned to the question of how the proponents of the greenhouse gas hypothesis deal with data that doesn't support their case. "People like Kevin Rudd and Ross Garnaut are speaking as though the Earth is still warming at an alarming rate, but what is the argument from the other side? What would people associated with the IPCC say to explain the (temperature) dip?"

Marohasy: "Well, the head of the IPCC has suggested natural factors are compensating for the increasing carbon dioxide levels and I guess, to some extent, that's what sceptics have been saying for some time: that, yes, carbon dioxide will give you some warming but there are a whole lot of other factors that may compensate or that may augment the warming from elevated levels of carbon dioxide.

"There's been a lot of talk about the impact of the sun and that maybe we're going to go through or are entering a period of less intense solar activity and this could be contributing to the current cooling."

Duffy: "Can you tell us about NASA's Aqua satellite, because I understand some of the data we're now getting is quite important in our understanding of how climate works?"

Marohasy: "That's right. The satellite was only launched in 2002 and it enabled the collection of data, not just on temperature but also on cloud formation and water vapour. What all the climate models suggest is that, when you've got warming from additional carbon dioxide, this will result in increased water vapour, so you're going to get a positive feedback. That's what the models have been indicating. What this great data from the NASA Aqua satellite ... (is) actually showing is just the opposite, that with a little bit of warming, weather processes are compensating, so they're actually limiting the greenhouse effect and you're getting a negative rather than a positive feedback."

Duffy: "The climate is actually, in one way anyway, more robust than was assumed in the climate models?"

Marohasy: "That's right ... These findings actually aren't being disputed by the meteorological community. They're having trouble digesting the findings, they're acknowledging the findings, they're acknowledging that the data from NASA's Aqua satellite is not how the models predict, and I think they're about to recognise that the models really do need to be overhauled and that when they are overhauled they will probably show greatly reduced future warming projected as a consequence of carbon dioxide."

Duffy: "From what you're saying, it sounds like the implications of this could be considerable ..."

Marohasy: "That's right, very much so. The policy implications are enormous. The meteorological community at the moment is really just coming to terms with the output from this NASA Aqua satellite and (climate scientist) Roy Spencer's interpretation of them. His work is published, his work is accepted, but I think people are still in shock at this point."
REST OF THE ARTICLE HERE
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Mar, 2008 10:23 am
Marohasy stated already in 2005 that "it's not clear that climate change is being driven by carbon dioxide levels...whether or not we can reduce carbon dioxide levels, there will be climate change". Source


There has been - two weeks ago - another interesting report in the same paper, by Anthony Bergin, the research director of the Australian Strategic Policy Institute and co-author of the 2007 report A Change in Climate for the Australian Defence Force:
Quote:

Climate change will have a direct influence on the type, scale and frequency of disasters, emergencies and incidents Australia will face, including increased flooding, and more frequent and intense storms, lightning events and bushfires. The economic consequences will be severe: the costs of the recent flooding in NSW and Queensland is expected to top $1 billion.
[...]
We will need to step up our efforts in warning and educating the public about extreme weather events and disasters. In the worst-case scenarios, we may be faced with mass casualties resulting from floods, storms or heat waves. The importance of investment in simple community-based risk-management planning is essential. Governments will need to climate-proof their infrastructure as they face these emergencies.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Mar, 2008 12:57 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
Another opinion we won't see on the front page of the newspapers or leading the evening news (emphasis mine):

Climate facts to warm to
Christopher Pearson
March 22, 2008
.....

See Foxfyre's post for full article. Very interesting, Foxfyre, and where is Parados to acknowledge and eat crow about the temps having "plateaued" the last few years? The quote below:

Marohasy: "Actually, no. The head of the IPCC (Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change) has actually acknowledged it. He talks about the apparent plateau in temperatures so far this century. So he recognises that in this century, over the past eight years, temperatures have plateaued ...

Not only that, it appears that we are being validated, Foxfyre, you, I, icann, High Seas, and all other level heads here on this forum. All the baloney being spewed by the Al Gores of the world, plus the U.N. and all their "fabulous" but worthless computer models will be seen for what they are, garbage in - garbage out.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Mar, 2008 01:04 pm
okie wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
Another opinion we won't see on the front page of the newspapers or leading the evening news (emphasis mine):

Climate facts to warm to
Christopher Pearson
March 22, 2008
.....

See Foxfyre's post for full article. Very interesting, Foxfyre, and where is Parados to acknowledge and eat crow about the temps having "plateaued" the last few years? The quote below:

Marohasy: "Actually, no. The head of the IPCC (Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change) has actually acknowledged it. He talks about the apparent plateau in temperatures so far this century. So he recognises that in this century, over the past eight years, temperatures have plateaued ...

Not only that, it appears that we are being validated, Foxfyre, you, I, icann, High Seas, and all other level heads here on this forum. All the baloney being spewed by the Al Gores of the world, plus the U.N. and all their "fabulous" but worthless computer models will be seen for what they are, garbage in - garbage out.


I sure hope so Okie. (Be sure to include Minitax in your group as he has done some impressive yeoman's work in bringing solid scientific principles to the forefront here.)

It would feel really good to be validated when we so strongly resisted the momentum of a huge snowball that we all sensed was based on bad science motivated by flawed political goals and at least partially financed by people with less than noble motives.

It would be very good to get past all this and then perhaps the science money could be focused on those very real environmental issues that HighSeas recently raised. That's where our attention should be focused.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Mar, 2008 01:17 pm
Thanks for the reminder of MiniTAX, who is at the forefront of this issue and is way ahead of me thats for sure. Crediting names often ends up not being complete, so I should stay away from that. But bottom line, I truly believe the skeptics will be validated, once again. The sky is falling crowd continues to fall into the same old trap again and again of jumping to conclusions based on incomplete, preliminary, or poor science.

I have always felt that the enivironment is much tougher and less fragile than perceived by tree huggers, and usually that underlying philosophy is the correct foundation to building any kind of scientific theories about what might be going on. And secondly, the most simple answer is often the most correct, in this case the sun. Auto mechanics learn that principle first as part of diagnosing any problem.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Mar, 2008 01:39 pm
okie wrote:
Auto mechanics learn that principle first as part of diagnosing any problem.


I always contact mine first if I've scientific questions.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Mar, 2008 01:44 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
... that we all sensed was based on bad science motivated by flawed political goals and at least partially financed by people with less than noble motives.



So you would consider e.g.

Jennifer Marohasy, a biologist and senior fellow of Melbourne-based think tank the Institute of Public Affairs

as being a "good girl" while

Anthony Bergin, the research director of the Australian Strategic Policy Institute and co-author of the 2007 report A Change in Climate for the Australian Defence Force

is a "bad guy" from the group you described above?
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Mar, 2008 02:17 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
okie wrote:
Auto mechanics learn that principle first as part of diagnosing any problem.


I always contact mine first if I've scientific questions.

The point, which is common sense, applies to any scientific or mechanical problem. Look at the most common or direct probabilities first. For example, if your house is too cold or too hot, first check the thermostat instead of calculating the amount of insulation in your walls. If the car quits running, first check to see if you ran out of gas before checking the spark plug wires or the timing.

Here we have a situation with Earth heating up very very slightly, also Mars and other celestial bodies showing a heating trend. Duh, just maybe it is the solar cycle here that is the chief culprit? Is that a slight possibility, Walter, or does it make more sense to invest all of our resources into calculating the effects of CO2, which by the way is a very minor constituent of the atmosphere, while we also virtually ignore water vapor. This whole issue has been handled very, very badly by the scientists and the media. No common sense has been applied by the Al Gores of the world.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Mar, 2008 02:43 pm
Laughing

Seeing common sense and Al Gore used in the same sentence is pretty funny.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Mar, 2008 02:43 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
okie wrote:
Auto mechanics learn that principle first as part of diagnosing any problem.


I always contact mine first if I've scientific questions.


Laughing Okay, that was funny. (I do understand Okie's metaphor with the mechanic though.)
0 Replies
 
 

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