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Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

 
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Dec, 2007 04:39 pm
ican711nm wrote:
maporsche wrote:
ican711nm wrote:

...
And what alternate fuels will be sufficient for driving all the motors required to drive all the electric generators required to charge all the batteries that will have to be periodically recharged?

...



You don't read, maybe 5 posts ago.....

Nuclear Power
Renewable Energy
Coal Power Plants w/ Carbon sequestering

It's not like we'll have 100 million of these cars sold next year or anything.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Dec, 2007 05:37 pm
maporsche wrote:
ican711nm wrote:
maporsche wrote:
ican711nm wrote:

...
And what alternate fuels will be sufficient for driving all the motors required to drive all the electric generators required to charge all the batteries that will have to be periodically recharged?

...



You don't read, maybe 5 posts ago.....

Nuclear Power
Renewable Energy
Coal Power Plants w/ Carbon sequestering

It's not like we'll have 100 million of these cars sold next year or anything.

Nuclear Power produces nuclear waste we have yet to figure out how to dispose of or make less toxic.

Renewable Energy does not exist, except when produced by perpetual motion machines. (For example, production of ethanol uses up the fertilility of farmland which must be restored by collecting, processing, and transporting more fertilizer, all of which which use up more poop that would be better utilized to grow food.)

Coal Power Plants w/ Carbon sequestering cause more toxicity per kilowatt hour of electricity produced than does refined oil or natural gas.


But then, poop is replaceable as long as there is enough food to eat!
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Dec, 2007 06:01 pm
Quote:
http://www.dep.state.fl.us/air/pollutants.htm

POLLUTANTS AND EMISSION SOURCES
A number of air pollutants can cause damage to health. Six major air pollutants (Carbon Monoxide, Lead, Nitrogen Dioxide, Ozone, Particulate Matter, and Sulfur Dioxide) have been identified as causing health effects at concentrations in the ambient air (the outside air we breathe) above thresholds established at levels known to be safe. These pollutants are referred to as "criteria pollutants" and a National Ambient Air Quality Standard (NAAQS) has been established for each based on health related criteria and data.

The following pages have information on the criteria pollutants, other air pollutants and emission sources:

Acid Rain Acid rain, which may damage lakes and streams, occurs when emissions of certain air pollutants react in the atmosphere to form acidic compounds that are then deposited on the earth's surface. The Clean Air Act limits the emissions of acid-forming pollutants from electric power plants by assigning each plant an emissions "allowance" that must be met through emissions reduction or purchase of emission "credits" from plants that have reduced emissions below their allowances.

Air Toxics Air toxics are those air pollutants that are known or suspected to cause cancer or other serious health effects. Air toxics can come from natural sources (e.g., radon gas coming up from the ground) or man-made sources such as motor vehicles and industrial processes. Examples include benzene (from gasoline), perchloroethylene, (from dry cleaners), and methylene chloride (used as a solvent and paint stripper).

Asbestos Asbestos is an incombustible chemical-resistant, fibrous material used for fireproofing materials as well as insulation, building materials, brake linings, etc. Asbestos fibers in the ambient air pose a risk to human health in the form of cancer and other diseases. As such, asbestos is heavily regulated at the state and federal levels.


Carbon Monoxide A Criteria Pollutant - Carbon Monoxide is produced primarily by motor vehicles. It can reduce a person's ability to think clearly, and causes visual impairment and headaches if high enough concentrations are experienced for a long period of time.

Chlorofluorocarbons - CFCs Chlorofluorocarbons are various compounds used as aerosol propellants, solvents, and refrigerants. Such compounds when released into the atmosphere contribute to the breakdown of the stratospheric ozone layer which shields the earth's surface from dangerous solar ultraviolet radiation.

Greenhouse Effect/Global Warming The greenhouse effect is a natural phenomenon that occurs when certain gases in the atmosphere, especially water vapor, carbon dioxide and methane, cause the Earth's surface to heat up more than it otherwise would, thereby maintaining a global average temperature warm enough to support a rich variety of life. Global warming occurs when the amounts of carbon dioxide and other such gases in the atmosphere increase beyond natural levels, thereby intensifying the greenhouse effect.

Lead A Criteria Pollutant - Lead can affect the central nervous system and lead to anemia. The young and the elderly are most susceptible to the harmful effects of lead.

Mercury Reactive, inorganic mercury is emitted to the atmosphere from various sources and then deposited on the earth's surface. Some of the deposited mercury ends up in wetlands, lakes, and streams where bacteria convert it into methylmercury, a toxic form that builds up (bioaccumulates) in the tissues of animals at each link in the food chain. In some cases, mercury accumulates in sport fish to levels that would be toxic if eaten by humans over a prolonged period of time or by the wildlife that prey upon those fish.

Mobile Source Emissions Mobile source emissions account for almost a third of the air pollution in the United States. These emissions contribute to the formation of ozone, an air pollutant considered to be a major air quality problem. Accordingly, new federal standards for vehicles and fuels have been enacted to address this problem.

Nitrogen Dioxide A Criteria Pollutant - Nitrogen Dioxide, which is a primary component of NOx, is produced when fuel is burned in motor vehicles, power plants, industrial boilers, and other sources.

Ozone A Criteria Pollutant - Ozone is noteworthy in two aspects. High in the atmosphere (in the stratosphere), a natural layer of ozone surrounds the earth and protects the surface from harmful ultraviolet radiation from the sun ("good" ozone). It has been found that man-made gases, especially chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs), have depleted the stratospheric ozone layer, leaving the earth and its population more vulnerable to the adverse health effects of excess ultraviolet radiation (e.g., increased skin cancer, cataracts, and weakened immune systems).

At the surface, high levels of ozone are associated with urban smog ("bad" ozone). Breathing this ozone can result in damage or irritation to the lungs. Ozone builds up near the ground through a series of chemical reactions involving man-made emissions of volatile organic compounds and nitrogen oxides. Nitrogen oxides are produced by motor vehicles, off-road engines and fuel-burning facilities such as power plants. Volatile organics are produced by natural sources, such as trees, as well as by solvents and fuels that readily evaporate.

Particle Pollution A Criteria Pollutant - Particle Pollution is the general term used for a mixture of solid particles and liquid droplets found in the air. This pollution, also known as particulate matter, is made up of a number of components, including acids (such as sulfates and nitrates), organic chemicals, metals, soil or dust particles and allergens (such as fragments of pollen or mold spores).

Smoking Vehicles Vehicles, gasoline and diesel powered, which emit smoke from the exhaust pipe contribute to the degradation of ambient air quality. Florida Statutes prohibit the operation of such vehicles and provide penalties for violations.

Stationary and Area Source Emissions Air pollutants are emitted into the atmosphere from stationary, area, and mobile sources. Stationary sources include utility, industrial, institutional and commercial facilities. Examples are electric power plants, phosphate processing plants, pulp and paper mills, and municipal waste combustors. Area sources include many individually small activities such as gasoline service stations, small paint shops, consumer solvent use, and open burning associated with agriculture and forest management activities.

Sulfur Dioxide A Criteria Pollutant - Sulfur Dioxide (SO2) is produced by power plants and industries that burn fossil fuels that contain sulfur, such as coal and oil, and by the phosphate industry through its production of sulfuric acid.
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Dec, 2007 06:20 pm
ican wrote :

Quote:
production of ethanol uses up the fertilility of farmland which must be restored by collecting, processing, and transporting more fertilizer, all of which which use up more poop that would be better utilized to grow food


as pointed out numerous times , there is NO need to use valuable foodcrops (such as corn) to produce ethanol . the WASTE PRODUCTS that can not be used as food product can be used for producing the ethanol .
just to give one example , brazil uses sugarcane to produce sugar as a foodstuff and uses the waste (cane stalks) to produce ethanol . previously the waste was usually burned in the fields , adding to pollution .
so not only do they utilize the waste product , they also reduce pollution .

there are plenty of waste products available - corn stalks , saw mill waste and many other waste products - than can be used in the production of ethanol .

large farm corporations , of course , would be happy to have corn used to produce ethanol - a foolish use of food crop imo .

Quote:
Future Fuels Inc., a subsidiary of Nuclear Solutions Inc., is implementing its proprietary technology and process to convert low-end carbonaceous waste materials such as used tires, petro-waste, waste coal, wood wastes, raw sewage, discarded corn stalks, residential waste, industrial waste and agricultural byproducts into ethanol; a clean renewable fuel.

Future Fuels Inc., a subsidiary of Nuclear Solutions Inc., is implementing its proprietary technology and process to convert low-end carbonaceous waste materials such as used tires, petro-waste, waste coal, wood wastes, raw sewage, discarded corn stalks, residential waste, industrial waste and agricultural byproducts into ethanol; a clean renewable fuel.


so is there any logical reason why valuable food crops are used to produce ethanol ?

see complete article :
ETHANOL FROM WASTE
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Dec, 2007 06:35 pm
hamburger wrote:
ican wrote :

Quote:
production of ethanol uses up the fertilility of farmland which must be restored by collecting, processing, and transporting more fertilizer, all of which which use up more poop that would be better utilized to grow food


as pointed out numerous times , there is NO need to use valuable foodcrops (such as corn) to produce ethanol . the WASTE PRODUCTS that can not be used as food product can be used for producing the ethanol .
just to give one example , brazil uses sugarcane to produce sugar as a foodstuff and uses the waste (cane stalks) to produce ethanol . previously the waste was usually burned in the fields , adding to pollution .
so not only do they utilize the waste product , they also reduce pollution .

there are plenty of waste products available - corn stalks , saw mill waste and many other waste products - than can be used in the production of ethanol .

large farm corporations , of course , would be happy to have corn used to produce ethanol - a foolish use of food crop imo .

Quote:
Future Fuels Inc., a subsidiary of Nuclear Solutions Inc., is implementing its proprietary technology and process to convert low-end carbonaceous waste materials such as used tires, petro-waste, waste coal, wood wastes, raw sewage, discarded corn stalks, residential waste, industrial waste and agricultural byproducts into ethanol; a clean renewable fuel.

Future Fuels Inc., a subsidiary of Nuclear Solutions Inc., is implementing its proprietary technology and process to convert low-end carbonaceous waste materials such as used tires, petro-waste, waste coal, wood wastes, raw sewage, discarded corn stalks, residential waste, industrial waste and agricultural byproducts into ethanol; a clean renewable fuel.


so is there any logical reason why valuable food crops are used to produce ethanol ?

see complete article :
ETHANOL FROM WASTE

NOPE!

When ethanol is manufactured and when it is burned, it emits pollutants.
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Dec, 2007 08:00 pm
ican wrote :

Quote:
NOPE!

When ethanol is manufactured and when it is burned, it emits pollutants.


i guess we better freeze in the dark , because there seems to be no system without ANY pollution . nuclear power stations require plenty of concrete , steel and other things , the production of which produces pollutants .

imo - not being a scientist - the described "closed loop system" seems to present a reasonable solution .

and my main point was : DO NOY USE FOODSTUFF for producing ethanol .
which i think still holds up !
hbg
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Dec, 2007 08:06 pm
Agreed, hamburger. Mainly let the free market determine the most efficient method.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Dec, 2007 09:08 pm
There are practical measures for determining what to use for fuel in agriculture, heating, manufacturing, communication, and transportation.

That measure is weight or volume of pollutant per produced energy unit. Those fuels producing a greater weight of pollutants per energy unit (e.g., per kilowatt hour or per foot-pounds per hour) are to be avoided in preference to those fuels producing less.

Some fuels can be engineered to reduce the production rate of polllutants per energy unit.

Some fuels can be engineered to produce less toxic polutents than others.

So the search should be a triple search, develop fuels that:
(1) produce a lower rate of pollutants per a specified energy unit;
(2) contain less toxic pollutants per a specified weight or volume unit;
(3) produce more energy per a specified pollutant rate.

Currently, kerosine, jet and turbine fuel, unleaded gasoline, natural gas, and coal are the best fuels we have. Let's not abandon their further development until we can develop better fuels.



By the way, I've notice that for now we have replaced discussion of alleged human caused global warming with discussion of alleged human caused pollution. I think that makes a lot more sense.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Dec, 2007 11:11 pm
Actually, when you think about it.....


There actually is one thing which humans can do which could plausibly have an effect on the planet's climate:

Stop sinning.

That has been shown to be efficacious in preventing global floods.....
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Dec, 2007 01:00 am
I couldn't agree more gunga, and would ask that you set the example by doing the christian thing vis a vis the KKKlintons..... forgive them.
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Dec, 2007 01:42 am
gungasnake wrote:
Actually, when you think about it.....


There actually is one thing which humans can do which could plausibly have an effect on the planet's climate:

Stop sinning.

That has been shown to be efficacious in preventing global floods.....


Being that there has never been a global flood, one ould conclude on exactly the opposite.

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
miniTAX
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Dec, 2007 02:49 am
gungasnake wrote:
Stop sinning.

That has been shown to be efficacious in preventing global floods.....

Something tells me the Japanese are promised green hell. Shocked
... unless it's just yet another eco-swindle :wink:

http://www.yamasa.org/acjs/images/tagata_1_600.jpg
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Dec, 2007 09:39 am
A quote from the following:

"Over 400 prominent scientists from more than two dozen countries recently voiced significant objections to major aspects of the so-called "consensus" on man-made global warming. These scientists, many of whom are current and former participants in the UN IPCC (Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change), criticized the climate claims made by the UN IPCC and former Vice President Al Gore."

"Even some in the establishment media now appear to be taking notice of the growing number of skeptical scientists. In October, the Washington Post Staff Writer Juliet Eilperin conceded the obvious, writing that climate skeptics "appear to be expanding rather than shrinking." Many scientists from around the world have dubbed 2007 as the year man-made global warming fears "bite the dust." (LINK) In addition, many scientists who are also progressive environmentalists believe climate fear promotion has "co-opted" the green movement."


http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=f80a6386-802a-23ad-40c8-3c63dc2d02cb
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Dec, 2007 09:58 am
http://navlog.org/gs_ii.jpg
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Dec, 2007 10:02 am
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
I couldn't agree more gunga, and would ask that you set the example by doing the christian thing vis a vis the KKKlintons..... forgive them.


In the case of a psychopath, there's nothing really there to forgive; being a psychopath is akin to being born with Down syndrome, i.e. it's basically a birth defect.

The thing I harbor a grudge against is the demoshit party which went to the wall to keep the fricking psycho in the whitehouse to the last day after it had become abundantly clear what they were dealing with. THAT was unforgivable.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Dec, 2007 10:41 am
Gunga
Agreed they should have impeached Bush [the psychopath } immediately upon capturing control of congress. :wink:
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Dec, 2007 10:47 am
gungasnake wrote:
THAT was unforgivable.


Is that what the Hypothesis of Christianity teaches?
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Dec, 2007 11:09 am
maporsche wrote:
gungasnake wrote:
THAT was unforgivable.


Is that what the Hypothesis of Christianity teaches?


Christianity teaches:

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone

Forgive so that you may be forgiven.

Judge not lest you be judged also.

Blessed are the merciful for they shall receive mercy

along with. . .

Go and sin no more

Do not tolerate evil or wrongdoing in your midst

And if your right eye offends you, pluck it out.

Let common sense tell us what is right and what is wrong.

And, in Christian belief, all these things are neither
incompatible nor inconsistent.

So.......perhaps it is 'unChristian' to judge your neighbor for sins of which you absolve yourself or ignore in matters of management of global warming too. But I think as Christians or otherwise, common sense is the best approach to many of these things.
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Dec, 2007 05:06 pm
On your mark...
Get set...
Foxfyre wrote:

Christianity teaches:

GO!
Foxfyre wrote:

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone

But stones are being tossed, so somebody must not be sinning?
Foxfyre wrote:

Forgive so that you may be forgiven.

So I'll assume that you disapprove of most of Gunga's posts.
Foxfyre wrote:

Judge not lest you be judged also.

Christians are probably the most judgemental people on earth, so I guess they should be expecting judgement by now.
Foxfyre wrote:

Blessed are the merciful for they shall receive mercy

Like the native americans...
Foxfyre wrote:

Go and sin no more

Which Christianity also teaches is impossible...
Foxfyre wrote:

Do not tolerate evil or wrongdoing in your midst

Zero tolerance directly contradicts a no judgement belief.
Foxfyre wrote:

And if your right eye offends you, pluck it out.

:wink:
Foxfyre wrote:

Let common sense tell us what is right and what is wrong.

This isn't Christian. Christianity has a book to tell people what is right and wrong. Common sense is not the meter in which Christians are taught to meter right and wrong.
Foxfyre wrote:

And, in Christian belief, all these things are neither
incompatible nor inconsistent.

False. I've already shown a few examples.
Foxfyre wrote:

So.......perhaps it is 'unChristian' to judge your neighbor for sins of which you absolve yourself or ignore in matters of management of global warming too. But I think as Christians or otherwise, common sense is the best approach to many of these things.

If you like to use your common sense, it would appear that your belief in Christianity comes with some flexibility.

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Dec, 2007 05:12 pm
Quote:
Do not tolerate evil or wrongdoing in your midst


Unless you're talking about politicians that you support, apparently. It would seem that modern Christians don't really care at all about wrongdoing in thier midst - especially if it's someone who is giving them more money by lowering their taxes.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
 

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