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Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

 
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Nov, 2007 07:26 pm
Quote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_effect

Greenhouse effect
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
...
Scientists warn thawing Siberia may trigger global meltdown

A schematic representation of the exchanges of energy between outer space, the Earth's atmosphere, and the Earth surface. The ability of the atmosphere to capture and recycle energy emitted by the Earth surface is the defining characteristic of the greenhouse effect.The greenhouse effect is the process in which the emission of infrared radiation by the atmosphere warms a planet's surface. The name comes from an incorrect analogy with the warming of air inside a greenhouse compared to the air outside the greenhouse. The Earth's average surface temperature of 15 °C (288 K) is about 33 °C warmer than it would be without the greenhouse effect.[1] The greenhouse effect was discovered by Joseph Fourier in 1824 and first investigated quantitatively by Svante Arrhenius in 1896.[2] Global warming, a recent warming of the Earth, is believed to be the result of increased concentrations of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere. In addition to the Earth, Mars and especially Venus have greenhouse effects.

Contents [hide]
1 Basic mechanism
2 Greenhouse gases
3 Positive feedback and runaway greenhouse effect
4 Anthropogenic greenhouse effect
5 Real greenhouses
6 See also
7 References



Basic mechanism
See also: Radiative forcing

Solar radiation at top of atmosphere and at Earth's surface.
Pattern of absorption bands generated by various greenhouse gases and their impact on both solar radiation and upgoing thermal radiation from the Earth's surface. Note that a greater quantity of upgoing radiation is absorbed, which contributes to the greenhouse effect.The Earth receives energy from the Sun in the form of radiation. The Earth reflects about 30% of the incoming solar radiation. The remaining 70% is absorbed, warming the land, atmosphere and oceans. For the Earth's temperature to be in steady state so that the Earth does not rapidly heat or cool, this absorbed solar radiation must be very closely balanced by energy radiated back to space in the infrared wavelengths. Since the intensity of infrared radiation increases with increasing temperature, one can think of the Earth's temperature as being determined by the infrared flux needed to balance the absorbed solar flux. The visible solar radiation mostly heats the surface, not the atmosphere, whereas most of the infrared radiation escaping to space is emitted from the upper atmosphere, not the surface. The infrared photons emitted by the surface are mostly absorbed in the atmosphere by greenhouse gases and clouds and do not escape directly to space.

The reason this warms the surface is most easily understood by starting with a simplified model of a purely radiative greenhouse effect that ignores energy transfer in the atmosphere by convection (sensible heat transport) and by the evaporation and condensation of water vapor (latent heat transport). In this purely radiative case, one can think of the atmosphere as emitting infrared radiation both upwards and downwards. The upward infrared flux emitted by the surface must balance not only the absorbed solar flux but also this downward infrared flux emitted by the atmosphere. The surface temperature will rise until it generates thermal radiation equivalent to the sum of the incoming solar and infrared radiation.

A more realistic picture taking into account the convective and latent heat fluxes is somewhat more complex. But the following simple model captures the essence. The starting point is to note that the opacity of the atmosphere to infrared radiation determines the height in the atmosphere from which most of the photons are emitted into space. If the atmosphere is more opaque, the typical photon escaping to space will be emitted from higher in the atmosphere, because one then has to go to higher altitudes to see out to space in the infrared. Since the emission of infrared radiation is a function of temperature, it is the temperature of the atmosphere at this emission level that is effectively determined by the requirement that the emitted flux balance the absorbed solar flux.

But the temperature of the atmosphere generally decreases with height above the surface, at a rate of roughly 6.5 °C per kilometer on average, until one reaches the stratosphere 10-15 km above the surface. (Most infrared photons escaping to space are emitted by the troposphere, the region bounded by the surface and the stratosphere, so we can ignore the stratosphere in this simple picture.) A very simple model, but one that proves to be remarkably useful, involves the assumption that this temperature profile is simply fixed, by the non-radiative energy fluxes. Given the temperature at the emission level of the infrared flux escaping to space, one then computes the surface temperature by increasing temperature at the rate of 6.5 °C per kilometer, the environmental lapse rate, until one reaches the surface. The more opaque the atmosphere, and the higher the emission level of the escaping infrared radiation, the warmer the surface, since one then needs to follow this lapse rate over a larger distance in the vertical. While less intuitive than the purely radiative greenhouse effect, this less familiar radiative-convective picture is the starting point for most discussions of the greenhouse effect in the climate modeling literature.

The term "greenhouse effect" is a source of confusion in that actual greenhouses do not warm by this same mechanism (see section Real greenhouses) even though popular expositions often imply they do, e.g. the EPA.[3]


Greenhouse gases
Main article: Greenhouse gas
Quantum mechanics provides the basis for computing the interactions between molecules and radiation. Most of this interaction occurs when the frequency of the radiation closely matches that of the spectral lines of the molecule, determined by the quantization of the modes of vibration and rotation of the molecule. (The electronic excitations are generally not relevant for infrared radiation, as they require energy larger than that in an infrared photon.)

The width of a spectral line is an important element in understanding its importance for the absorption of radiation. In the Earth's atmosphere these spectral widths are primarily determined by "pressure broadening", which is the distortion of the spectrum due to the collision with another molecule. Most of the infrared absorption in the atmosphere can be thought of as occurring while two molecules are colliding. The absorption due to a photon interacting with a lone molecule is relatively small. This three-body aspect of the problem, one photon and two molecules, makes direct quantum mechanical computation for molecules of interest more challenging. Careful laboratory spectroscopic measurements, rather than ab initio quantum mechanical computations, provide the basis for most of the radiative transfer calculations used in studies of the atmosphere.

The molecules/atoms that constitute the bulk of the atmosphere: oxygen (O2), nitrogen (N2) and argon; do not interact with infrared radiation significantly. While the oxygen and nitrogen molecules can vibrate, because of their symmetry these vibrations do not create any transient charge separation. Without such a transient dipole moment, they can neither absorb nor emit infrared radiation. In the Earth's atmosphere, the dominant infrared absorbing gases are water vapor, carbon dioxide, and ozone (O3). The same molecules are also the dominant infrared emitting molecules. CO2 and O3 have "floppy" vibration motions whose quantum states can be excited by collisions at energies encountered in the atmosphere. For example, carbon dioxide is a linear molecule, but it has an important vibrational mode in which the molecule bends with the carbon in the middle moving one way and the oxygens on the ends moving the other way, creating some charge separation, a dipole moment, thus carbon dioxide molecules can absorb IR radiation. Collisions will immediately transfer this energy to heating the surrounding gas. On the other hand, other CO2 molecules will be vibrationally excited by collisions. Roughly 5% of CO2 molecules are vibrationally excited at room temperature and it is this 5% that radiates. A substantial part of the greenhouse effect due to carbon dioxide exists because this vibration is easily excited by infrared radiation. CO2 has two other vibrational modes. The symmetric stretch does not radiate, and the asymmetric stretch is at too high a frequency to be effectively excited by atmospheric temperature collisions, although it does contribute to absorption of IR radiation. The vibrational modes of water are at too high energies to effectively radiate, but do absorb higher frequency IR radiation. Water vapor has a bent shape. It has a permanent dipole moment (the O atom end is electron rich, and the H atoms electron poor) which means that IR light can be emitted and absorbed during rotational transitions, and these transitions can also be produced by collisional energy transfer. Clouds are also very important infrared absorbers. Therefore, water has multiple effects on infrared radiation, through its vapor phase and through its condensed phases. Other absorbers of significance include methane, nitrous oxide and the chlorofluorocarbons.

Discussion of the relative importance of different infrared absorbers is confused by the overlap between the spectral lines due to different gases, widened by pressure broadening. As a result, the absorption due to one gas cannot be thought of as independent of the presence of other gases. One convenient approach is to remove the chosen constituent, leaving all other absorbers, and the temperatures, untouched, and monitoring the infrared radiation escaping to space. The reduction in infrared absorption is then a measure of the importance of that constituent. More precisely, define the greenhouse effect (GE) to be the difference between the infrared radiation that the surface would radiate to space if there were no atmosphere and the actual infrared radiation escaping to space. Then compute the percentage reduction in GE when a constituent is removed. The table below is computed by this method, using a particular 1-dimensional model of the atmosphere. More recent 3D computations lead to similar results.

Gas removed
percent reduction in GE

H2O 36%
CO2 9%
O3 3%

(Source: GISS-GCM ModelE simulation) [4]

By this particular measure, water vapor can be thought of as providing 36% of the greenhouse effect, and carbon dioxide 9%, but the effect of removal of both of these constituents will be greater than the total that each reduces the effect, in this case more than 45%. An additional proviso is that these numbers are computed holding the cloud distribution fixed. But removing water vapor from the atmosphere while holding clouds fixed is not likely to be physically relevant. In addition, the effects of a given gas are typically nonlinear in the amount of that gas, since the absorption by the gas at one level in the atmosphere can remove photons that would otherwise interact with the gas at another altitude. The kinds of estimates presented in the table, while often encountered in the controversies surrounding global warming, must be treated with caution. Different estimates found in different sources typically result from different definitions and do not reflect uncertainties in the underlying radiative transfer.


Positive feedback and runaway greenhouse effect
When there is a loop of effects such as the concentration of a greenhouse gas itself being a function of temperature, there is a feedback. If the effect is to act in the same direction on temperature it is a positive feedback; and if in the opposite direction it is a negative feedback. Sometimes feedback effects can be on the same cause as the forcing but it can also be via another greenhouse gas or on other effects such as change in ice cover affecting the planet's albedo.

Positive feedbacks do not have to lead to a runaway effects. With radiation from the Earth increasing in proportion to the fourth power of temperature, the feedback effect has to be very strong to cause a runaway effect. An increase in temperature from greenhouse gases leading to increased water vapour which is a greenhouse gas causing further warming is a positive feedback. This cannot be a runaway effect or the runaway effect would have occurred long ago. Positive feedback effects are common and can always exist while runaway effects are much rarer and cannot be operating at all times.

If the effects from the second iteration of the loop of effects is larger than the effects of the first iteration of the loop this will lead to a self perpetuating effect. If this occurs and the feedback only ends after producing a major temperature increase, it is called a runaway greenhouse effect. A runaway feedback could also occur in the opposite direction leading to an ice age. Runaway feedbacks are bound to stop, since infinite temperatures are not observed. They are allowed to stop due to things like a reducing supply of a greenhouse gas or a phase change of the gas or ice cover reducing towards zero or increasing toward a large size that is difficult to increase.

According to the Clathrate gun hypothesis a runaway greenhouse effect could be caused by liberation of methane gas from hydrates by global warming if there are sufficient hydrates close to unstable conditions. It has been speculated that the Permian-Triassic extinction event was caused by such a runaway effect. It is also thought that large quantities of methane could be released from the Siberian tundra as it begins to thaw, methane being 21-times more potent a greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide.[5]

A runaway greenhouse effect involving CO2 and water vapor may have occurred on Venus. On Venus today there is little water vapor in the atmosphere. If water vapor did contribute to the warmth of Venus at one time, this water is thought to have escaped to space. Venus is sufficiently strongly heated by the Sun that water vapor can rise much higher in the atmosphere and is split into hydrogen and oxygen by ultraviolet light. The hydrogen can then escape from the atmosphere and the oxygen recombines. Carbon dioxide, the dominant greenhouse gas in the current Venusian atmosphere, likely owes its larger concentration to the weakness of carbon recycling as compared to Earth, where the carbon dioxide emitted from volcanoes is efficiently subducted into the Earth by plate tectonics on geologic time scales.[6][7]


Anthropogenic greenhouse effect
Main article: Global warming
CO2 production from increased industrial activity (fossil fuel burning) and other human activities such as cement production and tropical deforestation has increased the CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere. Measurements of carbon dioxide amounts from Mauna Loa observatory show that CO2 has increased from about 313 ppm (parts per million) in 1960 to about 375 ppm in 2005. The current observed amount of CO2 exceeds the geological record of CO2 maxima (~300 ppm) from ice core data (Hansen, J., Climatic Change, 68, 269, 2005 ISSN 0165-0009).

Because it is a greenhouse gas, elevated CO2 levels will increase global mean temperature; based on an extensive review of the scientific literature, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change concludes that "most of the observed increase in globally averaged temperatures since the mid-20th century is very likely due to the observed increase in anthropogenic greenhouse gas concentrations".[8]

Over the past 800,000 years,[9] ice core data shows unambiguously that carbon dixoide has varied from values as low as 180 parts per million (ppm) to the pre-industrial level of 270ppm.[10] Certain paleoclimatologists consider variations in carbon dioxide to be a fundamental factor in controlling climate variations over this time scale.[11]


Real greenhouses

A modern Greenhouse in RHS WisleyThe term 'greenhouse effect' originally came from the greenhouses used for gardening, but it is a misnomer since greenhouses operate differently [1] [2]. A greenhouse is built of glass; it heats up primarily because the Sun warms the ground inside it, which warms the air near the ground, and this air is prevented from rising and flowing away. The warming inside a greenhouse thus occurs by suppressing convection and turbulent mixing. This can be demonstrated by opening a small window near the roof of a greenhouse: the temperature will drop considerably. It has also been demonstrated experimentally (Wood, 1909): a "greenhouse" built of rock salt (which is transparent to IR) heats up just as one built of glass does. Greenhouses thus work primarily by preventing convection; the atmospheric greenhouse effect however reduces radiation loss, not convection. It is quite common, however, to find sources (e.g., [3] [4]) that make the "greenhouse" analogy. Although the primary mechanism for warming greenhouses is the prevention of mixing with the free atmosphere, the radiative properties of the glazing can still be important to commercial growers. With the modern development of new plastic surfaces and glazings for greenhouses, this has permitted construction of greenhouses which selectively control radiation transmittance in order to better control the growing environment [5]PDF (271 KiB).
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Nov, 2007 07:34 pm
I knew it was something.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Nov, 2007 07:41 pm
spendius wrote:
I knew it was something.

Quote:
Over the past 800,000 years,[9] ice core data shows unambiguously that carbon dixoide has varied from values as low as 180 parts per million (ppm) to the pre-industrial level of 270ppm.[10] Certain paleoclimatologists consider variations in carbon dioxide to be a fundamental factor in controlling climate variations over this time scale.[11]

It's been "something" for quite a while.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Nov, 2007 09:41 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
No, that one is pretty good - and accurate. I hadn't read the preceeding posts very carefully and mistook your attempt at irony for bullying.

My apologies.

So then you are saying we have no evidence of which wavelengths of light pass through CO2?
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Nov, 2007 11:21 pm
No I am not saying that . Absorption spectra are well known.
0 Replies
 
username
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Nov, 2007 04:00 am
You're a great cut-and-paster, ican. How are you at interpretation?

You do realize, don't you, that when the CO2 is at the low point, that is during ice ages? Low point, less greenhouse effect, less warming, COLD.

And when it is at the high point (270ppm), it is an interglacial--more CO2, WARMER.

You realize ice ages are due to long-term variations in the earth's orbit (google Milankovich cycles), don't you? That for the last several million years they occur at about 100,000 year cycles. That the ice core evidence you cited goes back for the last six cycles, which is roughly three times the amount of time that modern humans have been here, and that CO2 has never gone above about 300ppm in those cycles. Until this interglacial, specifically the last century and a half or so. Which is the time we've been mucking about with fossil fuels and pouring millions of years of sequestered carbon back into the atmosphere.

Notice the correlations. Less CO2, colder. More CO2, hotter--basic physics again says that's gonna be the case. No other cause anybody can cite for the unprecedented rise in CO2 levels above anything seen in more than the last half-million years, except us. It's gonna get hotter.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Nov, 2007 08:16 am
georgeob1 wrote:
No I am not saying that . Absorption spectra are well known.

Then you are sure ican's post was accurate?
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Nov, 2007 09:05 am
Quote:
No other cause anybody can cite for the unprecedented rise in CO2 levels above anything seen in more than the last half-million years, except us.


Are you saying that there are no natural causes for the rise in CO2?
Volcanic eruptions, forest fires, nothing natural could occur that would account for any of the rise in CO?
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Nov, 2007 09:40 am
mysteryman wrote:
Quote:
No other cause anybody can cite for the unprecedented rise in CO2 levels above anything seen in more than the last half-million years, except us.


Are you saying that there are no natural causes for the rise in CO2?
Volcanic eruptions, forest fires, nothing natural could occur that would account for any of the rise in CO?

Are you sure you want to use that strawman?
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Nov, 2007 09:46 am
parados wrote:
mysteryman wrote:
Quote:
No other cause anybody can cite for the unprecedented rise in CO2 levels above anything seen in more than the last half-million years, except us.


Are you saying that there are no natural causes for the rise in CO2?
Volcanic eruptions, forest fires, nothing natural could occur that would account for any of the rise in CO?

Are you sure you want to use that strawman?


I didnt realize it was a strawman.

I am asking because I dont know the answer.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Nov, 2007 11:33 am
username wrote:
You're a great cut-and-paster, ican. How are you at interpretation?

You do realize, don't you, that when the CO2 is at the low point, that is during ice ages? Low point, less greenhouse effect, less warming, COLD.

You do realize, don't you, that according to the Wikipedia article, the CO2 ppm prior to the human industrial age fluctuated for reasons not specifed, and that the CO2 ppm was measured according to its density variations found in glacial ice of various ages over the past 800,000 years. The CO2 ppm in the atmosphere over that period is theorized to have been a calculable number from its density in ice.

And when it is at the high point (270ppm), it is an interglacial--more CO2, WARMER.

The Wikipedia article made no such claim. After all the CO2 ppm in ice was what was measured, and not the CO2 ppm in the atmosphere.

You realize ice ages are due to long-term variations in the earth's orbit (google Milankovich cycles), don't you? That for the last several million years they occur at about 100,000 year cycles.

According to the Encyclopedia Britannica those ice ages occurred at about 20,000 year cycles. So in between it was warmer without any oil burning help from humans.

That the ice core evidence you cited goes back for the last six cycles, which is roughly three times the amount of time that modern humans have been here, and that CO2 has never gone above about 300ppm in those cycles. Until this interglacial, specifically the last century and a half or so. Which is the time we've been mucking about with fossil fuels and pouring millions of years of sequestered carbon back into the atmosphere.

The Wikipedia article did not mention what the current CO2 ppm is in the current layer of glacial ice. It mentioned only the current measured/calculated CO2 ppm in the atmosphere over the last 40 some years. So we don't know from the article what is the average ratio of CO2 ppm in glacial ice to the average CO2 ppm in the atmosphere.

Notice the correlations. Less CO2, colder. More CO2, hotter--basic physics again says that's gonna be the case. No other cause anybody can cite for the unprecedented rise in CO2 levels above anything seen in more than the last half-million years, except us. It's gonna get hotter.

That correlation appears to apply within the last 100 years. The Wikipedia article said nothing about that correlation applying back in past glacial periods. Remember, according to Albert Einstein, correlation is not cause.

We do know that CO2 is absorbed into water vapor, so when some of that water vapor condenses and rains, it brings some of that CO2 down with it to puddles, creeks, streams, rivers, lakes, and oceans. We also know that the amount of water vapor in the atmosphere is related to average global temperatures. So the hotter it gets, the more H2O vapor in the atmosphere there is, and the more CO2 absorbed into that H2O vapor there is. I think for many plants, the greater the CO2 in the water they absorb, the more Oxygen they will emit. I bet those plants are happy about that. I am too.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Nov, 2007 12:05 pm
Boy.. it's a good thing plants drink CO2 otherwise we might have pools of CO2 that we would have to keep the kids from swimming in.









[size=7]The above was sarcasm. Please do not think I meant it as science.[/size]
0 Replies
 
username
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Nov, 2007 12:10 pm
Geez, ican,I know you came to this topic recently, but please get with the plan. We've already gone over this several times in the last 700 pages. Every time a newbie comes in, it gets rehashed. I suggested you read the wikipedia article because it summarizes a lot of research and a hundred years of physics. The ice ages and the ice cores are precisely what that paragraph is talking about, and the highs and lows are the CO2 in interglacials and during ice ages respectively. We are in an interglacial now, and have been since the glaciers melted about 10000 years ago. NO
ONE suggests ice ages occur at 20000 year intervals. If you read the EB that way, I suggest you go back and reread the article. Interglacials last about 10-20000 years but they recur at about 100000 year intervals. That is, ice ages are the norm.

And the gasses trapped in the cores are little bits of trapped atmosphere, year by year, so 270ppm in ice translates to 270ppm in the atmosphere.

And the point is, the cycle has been repeating itself with little variation for the past six ice age-interglacial cycles, UNTIL VERY LATE IN THIS INTERGLACIAL. CO2 has NEVER been anywhere near this high in the last 600,000 years, until we started burning fossil fuel and dumping CO2 into the atmosphere.

More CO2, more heat trapped. Svante Arrhenius proved that more than a century ago. Basic physics. I have not seen anyone of the denialists yet produce any sort of evidence that the increase in CO2 is coming from any source other than human interference. It's unprecedented in the historical record (that's the ice cores, ican).
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Nov, 2007 12:44 pm
mysteryman wrote:
Quote:
No other cause anybody can cite for the unprecedented rise in CO2 levels above anything seen in more than the last half-million years, except us.


Are you saying that there are no natural causes for the rise in CO2?
Volcanic eruptions, forest fires, nothing natural could occur that would account for any of the rise in CO?


Did you miss the use of the word "unprecedeted"?
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Nov, 2007 01:58 pm
parados wrote:
Boy.. it's a good thing plants drink CO2 otherwise we might have pools of CO2 that we would have to keep the kids from swimming in.

[size=7]The above was sarcasm. Please do not think I meant it as science.[/size]

CO2 is non-toxic. Swimming in water containing CO2 is like swimming in diluted carbonated water. Swimming in carbonated water may tickle, but that's all it will do.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Nov, 2007 02:21 pm
ican711nm wrote:

CO2 is non-toxic.


That's correct: quite a few people use it as therapy and e.g. inhale it in closed garages.
0 Replies
 
Francis
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Nov, 2007 02:28 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
ican711nm wrote:

CO2 is non-toxic.


That's correct: quite a few people use it as therapy and e.g. inhale it in closed garages.


In addition, it cures oxygenphobia. Forever.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Nov, 2007 02:30 pm
I think Walter was referring to CO, which is indeed toxic.
0 Replies
 
Francis
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Nov, 2007 02:35 pm
Well, CO2 is non-toxic but it is letal, anyway, as it replaces the air you need.

You will succumb from asphixia..
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Nov, 2007 02:37 pm
Only for Europeans.
0 Replies
 
 

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